Any successful ground advantage insurance claims?
logger7
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I've sent many hundreds of packages using ebay's standard padded envelopes without incident. I don't know what usps is doing differently but their equipment must be different. Two packages in the last month arrived empty, and they are not enclosing empty packages any more with an apologetic note. I tried filing an online claim with usps but they make it harder. The recipient has to go to their post office for an inspection for a claim to be proper. So this puts an inordinate burden on an already upset customer. I went to a large local post office and asked the post master if she had actually put any claims through and she said no. So they're making this difficult.
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I have had the same issue with priority. They will often ask to see the packaging for either damage or loss of contents. I recently had to do it for UPS as well. I don't think it's specific to GA.
I spoke to my local postmaster today; they said you have to call them after making a claim. He said he had processed priority claims in the past. Of course with the great ebay standard envelope the insurance pays these claims without problems. If a customer receives an empty package through ebay showing delivered ebay stands with the seller. Then the buyer has to open an item not received case and ebay will sometimes refund the customer themselves.
One option to go over the head of usps; call your congressman after opening a case on the congressman's website; there is a segway to contact a federal agency in your behalf. I then followed up with my congressman's office today and they said they saw the online claim and they'd look into it and get back to me.
Me too. Of course the recipient had already disposed of the damaged/empty parcel (though they had photos of it.) Their local PO wouldn’t initiate the claims process and nor would mine.
I am not sure whether eBay would support a seller if they refused a refund b/c the seller didn’t keep the package for the USPS claims process. Puts a seller in a pickle. Luckily it doesn’t happen too often.
Agreed.
I much prefer a lost package to damage. I rarely even file a claim on damage because it just annoys the buyer and they often, as you say, don't have the evidence anymore.
For a recent lost package the USPS denied my claim saying that the ebay transaction records were not adequate evidence of value. It was a PCGS-graded Morgan which unfortunately was monster-toned. I say 'unfortunately' because it means the PCGS price guide was also useless.
So is "Ground Advantage" the new First Class? I sure is way more slow that First Class..... It took a package from Nevada TEN DAYS to get to me in Florida......
Not exactly. Ground advantage is exactly what it says: surface transported mail.
I hate to hear these stories. A nightmare for all of us.
I've often wondered if anyone had had a "ship cover" insurance claim. Maybe it's more lenient.
"Ship Cover" does not cover coins. Read the fine print.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
^this. Don’t use Ship Cover.
I firmly believe there is a legal remedy for most any ripoff in this country if you want to be persistent and know all the resources available. I'd file a small claims court action if they have jurisdiction--but they don't. It's semi-federal so you'd have to file in federal court which is a royal pita. My congressman's office showed interest so I'll hope that they work with the usps to make their so-called insurance work for consumers.
I appreciate that, thanks.......
I'm not sure it is unreasonable to require inspection of the package.
I recently had an auction house send me a bunch of comic slabs. I've bought hundreds from them in the past but they had changed the way they shipped. They put NO packing between slabs and 8 of them had cracked from banging into each other. The outer boxes were PRISTINE. It was absolutely not the carrier's fault (UPS). The AH filed a claim and UPS wanted pictures of all the packaging and the damage.
While they ultimately paid the claim, I didn't think they should have. It was a customer error that caused the damage.
I have never had the need to file a claim and have not had a package lost or have damage that harmed the contents. As for speed, I have observed far more packages arriving earlier than expected than later than expected, easily two to one.
I actually received a check for $25 today on a $25 ebay sale; so I'm out the $4 or so shipping cost, etc.. I fully documented it with a picture of the machine damaged cut in the package and the information from the customer who I hoped would show the package to the usps, he didn't tell me either way and frankly it is asking a lot for a customer to do that.
Cool! What country is this?
None of these issues for years, now suddenly several in the last couple months:
So, let me get this straight. If you sell a coin for $100 on ebay, the sales receipt is not evidence of value? Insurance covers loss, I understood. Is that not so? What is the point then? The following is from the USPS website. Therefore the insurance would honor a sales receipt as proof of value. What do you think?
Jim
Proof of Value, Replacement, or Repair Costs
Proof of cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed is required in order for the claim to be processed. Either the mailer or the addressee must submit acceptable proof to establish the cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed. The Postal Service may request additional proof to help determine an accurate value. Be prepared to provide an estimate of repair by a reputable dealer (if applicable). (For a complete list, see DMM 609.3.2.)
When filing online, you must upload a sales receipt or paid invoice (using a .pdf or .jpg attachment). If mailing your claim, include in your mailing a copy of the sales receipt or paid invoice.
You may use any of the following as proof of value:
A sales receipt, paid invoice, or paid bill of sale.
Note: Indemnity may be limited if you present only the packaging without the original mailing or sales receipt.
A copy of the credit card billing statement indicating the amount paid.
A copy of the front and back of a canceled check used to pay for the item.
A copy of the money order receipt if the money order was used to pay for the item.
The final or complete transaction sheet indicating the amount deducted from an Internet account to pay for the item.
Estimates of repair costs from a reputable dealer, or paid repair bills. A reputable dealer is defined as a licensed business owner who is qualified to estimate value or cost of repairs for the item. We will not cover repair costs above the original purchase price.
Receipt or invoice of costs incurred for the reconstruction of nonnegotiable documents. We will not pay more than $100 for document replacement.
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Unfortunately the process is a lot more onerous. You have to upload a lot of evidence and the local postal lady told me yesterday that the buyer/customer is supposed to open the case which makes no sense; after they dragged their feet for 10 days I went back after speaking with the usps claims rep. yesterday at 800askusps. The form is #3831 that the local po has to fill out.
I got this from the customer who received the empty package yesterday with no usps notice envelope that they used to provide with empty packages.
This from the customer:
"I'm losing faith in the USPS. This is now the 3rd item that said it was "delivered" and either I got nothing, or I actually received another like this where I just got cut open packaging with no contents. As long as the status says "delivered" no one (EBAY or USPS) will do anything. They suggest I go to the police. Don't think much would happen there either. I've been contemplating selling on EBAY again..."
For damage or empty contents, it actually makes sense for the recipient to file. The sender could not testify to either occurrence.
I agree that ideally the recipient should file on a parcel that arrives empty but it is expecting a lot; because they have to wait the 15 days then do the online filing then get it inspected at the local post office, and most post offices don't know how to file these 3831 forms.
Correct, I know this first hand.
"How many times can a man turn his head and pretend he just doesn’t see?” - Bob Dylan
I did filed two claims in the past. one was approved right away. one denied at first then after appealed, it got approved. Both used ebay invoices as prove of value. One value is less than 100 the other is over 100 but I got 100 payout. Both invoices showed the address matched with the tracking. By the way those two claims were priority mails that come with 100 insurance.
I'm seeing that ebay has lowered the price for priority mail flat mailer to $6.69 which may have something to do with a known ground advantage safe delivery problem.
I think they are just adjusting to USPS price changes. Shipping has gotten noticeably cheaper in the last few months.
Still the retail pricing of usps shipping products at the local po have gone up; especially the contract usps shipping outlets.
Yes, which is why I use the online USPS click and ship enhanced (read that as the much cheaper) version. And you can order mass quantities of anything you need from USPS at no charge and they deliver it.
I checked it out, tried adding insurance, not sure if it's better than the Stamps.com rates which are not that good.
And usps rates are going up again next month: https://www.stamps.com/article/usps-rate-change/
I'm hearing of others with parcels going missing, one vendor was losing around 1/12 after Ground Advantage rolled out: https://community.ebay.com/t5/Shipping/Can-i-receive-refund-for-postage-paid-for-USPS-Ground-Advantage/m-p/34307445
How the new sorting machines are slicing open packages is shocking to me; I had another one last week which set a buyer off into a rage demanding immediate refund when it arrived empty with an apology note from the usps.
I never use their insurance, it won't pay off anyway. You need to think about the abuse the package can take and really wrap it over with good packing tape. I use simple beige bubble packs and cover all of the edges with 3 inch shipping tape half way around each edge. I routinely send high value packages and the crappier looking the packaging the safer they are, I got that from talking to my postmaster. He said that priority mail packages are the worst and that is my experience too.
The question I have is why are they abusing the packages, slicing them open with collectibles falling out? I'd think that it would have to be a rule that nothing sharp goes anyway near packages going through the usps systems.
You have to remember the maintenace crew has tool boxes filled with tools that can be used in many ways, good and bad.
USN & USAF retired 1971-1993
Successful Transactions with more than 100 Members
Here is tv coverage of a man who was shipping a computer to his son with the claim denied:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF9E3ykefpg
If it looks like an unimportant package it is not a problem. I shipped $30K in coins to CAC, $25K to GC, and $45K to NGC Ancient in a single shipment each over the past 2 months using ground advantage with multiple layers of packaging, lots of tape and made the packages look like they contained junk, no insurance and had no issues. I have not had a problem with literally hundreds of shipments using ground advantage this way. Every time with priority there is a huge problem.
With the valuable packages they were inside two nested USPS plastic bubble packs within a beige 12x9x2 bubble pack with a home printed odd shaped (I cut off the excess paper at cheesy looking angles, not squared) label and used a bunch of scotch tape to secure it well but in a very ugly fashion. The can cut it all they want unless they take a lot of time they will get nowhere, which is why it needs to also look like a POS package that contains junk. Just my style, to each his own. I'm just saying that USPS will not pay off on the massive insurance cost that such shipments entail.
I'm wondering what the materials or contents are that increase the damage, loss risk? You're speaking to theft risks, as others have said big fat insurance amounts on the outside of the package are "steal me" signs. However the other risk is machines handling equipment, conveyor belts, code readers, sorters etc.. To make the package sturdier fiberglass shipping tape probably helps. As far as I can see Missouri denies most all the usual claims arguing that the packaging wasn't sturdy enough, etc..
On one claim I was sent $15 on a $70 claim for a certified Morgan dollar. In explanation it says, "the Domestic Mail Manual states that except for Registered Mail, the maximum indemnity for negotiable items, defined as instruments that can be converted to cash without resort to forgery, currency, or bullion is $15". Maybe someone can translate this to me. If they are offering insurance on the contents of a parcel, it should be according to its value, right?
It sounds like they said that claims on money - in this case, a Morgan dollar - are limited to $15, other than via registered mail.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It sounds like they did not consider your Morgan dollar as having numismatic value. Under section "h" in the link below coins with numismatic value do appear to be covered.
https://about.usps.com/publications/pub122/pub122_v07_revision_092016_013.htm
Thanks; it looks like their claims department is denying initial claims, or requiring more information, such as having a customer go down to their local office and have a postmaster inspect the package and then upload the relevant form, many have not done those much so will deny claims unless the parcel was shipping in a box. After the initial claim and denial, you can file an appeal and finally the court of last appeals is out of the DC office.
Can someone please tell me what the "advantage" is with "Ground Advantage"?
First, I was notified of a package coming to me that way that was due to arrive in 2 days from San Francisco. It took 5 days for it to make it to somewhere in NJ (I'm outside of Philly). Then after languishing there for a couple days, it went BACK to the San Francisco area! A week and a half later, it was finally delivered here...........
Last week, I sent out some forms in a manila envelope via "Ground Advantage" from my post office branch outside of Philly to Iowa. Was supposed to arrive yesterday. Still in-transit as of today, and tomorrow's a holiday. So once again paid extra for no better service.
So is the "advantage" just for the USPS in extra $ collected with no improved effort/results?
Rates are going up; I expect them to be mindful of an expectation of better service:
https://help.stamps.com/hc/en-us/articles/20820467721371-USPS-Rate-Changes-2024#UUID-8f646c61-a677-6447-9892-ceae495de2e9_UUID-2fdb2bd9-161a-f45d-2a37-c97770a2b4b7
Ground advantage is cheaper than the old 1st class package or priority and also includes insurance which 1st class didn't. You have not "paid extra" for the service unless you used to use 1st class letter.
Update: I've had 100% success with the claims finally. You file a claim, and appeal, 2nd appeal if necessary and the court of final claims in DC. Document everything and write it out.