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Is this a legitimate pack?
abcoltsfan
Posts: 802 ✭✭✭
Is this pack a real pack? The back looks a little tighter and there is no discernible openings in the back so it has me wandering. I just started out pack collecting and not really sure what to look for. I just bought this for player collection. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
Aaron
Working on the following sets
1980's and 1990's Topps Baseball BBCE FASC - Cello or Wax Boxes
1952 Bowman US Presidents PSA 7 & up
Pro Football Hall of Fame Indianapolis Colts PSA Registry Set
June 9th Cubs full ticket or stubs - 1981 to 2020
Andre Dawson Topps Basic registry PSA 10's
Mark Grace Topps Basic registry PSA 10's
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Sandberg is from B sheet which should typically fall on bottom half of a 1983 Topps cello pack (D.E.F sheet cards on top half; A,B,C sheet cards on bottom half). Seal on back doesn't look good to me, either. I would pass on this pack, personally.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Concur with Tim.
This pack is from a cello box CU group purchase from BBCEx. (this is a B* sheet card of Sandberg on the back)
Thanks guys. I was afraid of that when I opened the package.
Working on the following sets
1980's and 1990's Topps Baseball BBCE FASC - Cello or Wax Boxes
1952 Bowman US Presidents PSA 7 & up
Pro Football Hall of Fame Indianapolis Colts PSA Registry Set
June 9th Cubs full ticket or stubs - 1981 to 2020
Andre Dawson Topps Basic registry PSA 10's
Mark Grace Topps Basic registry PSA 10's
Nice pack, Mike!
Notice, too, how clean the seal is and that there are no missing pieces of white in the ad graphic.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
based on this info I am confused about this cello pack newly graded in a psa holder currently on EBAy with Sandberg on top!!
photo of pack on ebay now
link to pack on ebay now
https://www.ebay.com/itm/116154857574?itmmeta=01HW5QWSQZEDHPKZTZ144EXFKX&hash=item1b0b5e7866:g:PEwAAOSw-ylmJUcr&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwJJE/PxkanymZUeR7qAwi/ARc9i7dDnnP0yq0Omw4IL/j1Wff2fS2kzqLGA7rPcUtEHblzl2wBT4lTSJg6tZjxdiD0Sp4SFpc15ovgsxnoZoLDjJ/YVohgczA4TmosvU37n1bJg6vx7LxpeNZiOgitFmRhHczv+mtdfOC/UquW7mrkNRTySFCwttDbl/kz9Q7bgzjbXPYtyygdFPsY0QbMtOaARP7/1Qli9YcbAkzfn1eDAX8nPBq9vHwvfIs1EJUQ==|tkp:Bk9SR4qc87fhYw
For some reason I thought 83 topps was collated AB CD EF in racks and cellos.
Not saying that pack looks legit or not.
so you can find a 83 cello with Sandberg on top and back on same pack !!! ?
That’s not what I was trying to say and I have no idea if there is any way for that to happen. Fair warning. I also might be thinking of 85 topps.
I wouldn’t have said anything if you hadn’t posted that PSA pack with the sandberg on top.
The sheet should be on the lower left corner of the cards.
I think there’s some percentage of racks and cellos in 83 ( again might be 85 ) topps where the collation has cards from every sheet.
But I recall something about it being Half A and half B. Same for CD and EF.
Could be bad info and/ or bad memory so… for what it’s worth.
Colecovision!
Those were as cool as Sandberg back in the day.
Thanks for pointing this out Tim - it is a very underappreciated clue when determining a legitimate pack. A pack that has been opened and resealed will often lose some of the white in the graphic as the outer cello peels away from creased/folded cello below. I'm not saying that all legit packs must have perfect white ad graphics but it can be a red flag if there are a bunch of lines missing white.
Doug (1all)
Do we have an anomaly here? Or is someone building packs again.
If you send an email to Steve Hart he will answer.
He does know A LOT. I’m critical of his business practices but he knows a ton. I’m not sure he would appreciate me sharing his email on here but there is a generic contact on BBCE website.
With standard collation, Sandberg is found on back of a 1983 cello, not top.
That said, there are collation anomalies and reversed collation possible for most years including 1983.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
So the eBay pack could be legit ?
My collecting blog: http://ctcard.wordpress.com
Lots of bad star on top cello’s have been graded so if Sandberg is known to be bottom of pack, Occam’s says odds are the PSA pack is fake.
Yes
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Given that it was just graded, Steve (who is now aware of all the collation issues that allowed bad packs to be certified years ago) clearly thinks it is legit reverse collation.
so what your saying is that even if a cello pack has a card on top that is out of the normal collation, it still can be good and not automatically a bad or fake pack...
There are cellos and racks with Gwynn on top and Gwynn is on the D sheet. I think with the 80-85 Topps the frequency of anomalous collations is maybe as high as 10% - perhaps even higher.
I have had 1980, 1982, and 1983 Topps wax which didn't have 15 cards per pack even. A mix of what Steve called "jumbo" packs and "short" packs - but completely legitimate - albeit mostly trashed by the sort & pack - most were missing gum and most were packed
I have had 1983 Cello packs (from BBCE) which had a mix of all 6 series in the same packs. Also considered legitimate.
No idea how they know what is legit vs. mischief. There are more than a few companies that are setup to print custom labels on cellophane for the purpose of wrapping "custom packs". I don't know how this will be mitigated.
Here's some pictures that I found from a 1982 wax box.
Looks legit right?
BBCE Wrapped.
This wasn't a major issue, but I was curious why BBCE doesn't label the box with the condition of the packs. Had I known how this was an oddball packing I would have still bought it, but I wouldn't have opened it.
It's not reassuring when I hear about how there's this scenario or that scenario, but there's no authoritative information online from anyone which is stating clearly what you might expect in legitimate packs. I'm not convinced anyone really knows.
So the OP’s pack could be legit as well then.
Yes, there are authentic examples of packs which exhibit reversed collation or collation anomalies for most years. That said, most of the bad packs are fabricated with stars on top to enhance value, so unless you see the box from which the pack was pulled as all packs from the box/case will exhibit the same anomaly/aberration throughout, it pays to be inherently leery of such packs when found in the wild.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Too confusing and too costly, especially with all the forgeries out there, is way I stay away from unopened.
Still one of the most exciting aspects of the hobby, though, and demand continues to outstrip supply.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collectors are the easiest people to take advantage of (I include myself in that group). I want nice looking vintage but I don’t want trimmed. Trimmers create nice looking vintage. Detection is tough so I have trimmed cards I don’t know about.
Unopened and player collectors want the stars and rookies on top but they don’t want fake packs. The fact that collation makes the Sandberg on top rarer than it would otherwise be increases the price. Packs fool the experts sometimes. Star packs are faked more than regular packs.
We pay for what we want to be true and accept that our experts are not able to catch everything. However we take peace of mind from the experts opinion because who else can you trust with all the fraud in the hobby.
Abcoltsfan - are you keeping the pack? I think its cool.
I agree and liked what you said about the Sandburg psa 9 pack that the collation of Sandburg on top makes it much more rare and much more scarce and the price I feel should be higher
Or fake.
.> @abcoltsfan said:
Are you going to get the pack graded?
This pack has been resealed. You can tell by the loss of print color in the white and black font on the back. Notice the color loss of white by “play” and the black font loss by “no purchase” and “game card.” A factory sealed pack would not exhibit this color loss. That happens during opening of the cello.
This thread is 5 years old
That is a detail I missed.
It would be poetic if the original pack was the pack slabbed by PSA.
when the King of authenticating unopened product put a thumbs up on this 83 topps bb cello pack with Sandberg on top I knew I wanted to add it to my collection for its rarity and scarcity.