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eBay seller with a purposefully deceiving listing.
redraider
Posts: 128 ✭✭✭✭
This coin will command very big bucks when it sells in 10 days. Watch out as it is deceptive.
This coin was originally sold as a PCGS AU Details - Cleaned coin on March 27th. Just a few weeks later, it is out of its holder, dipped again and listed as an uncirculated coin with no mention of cleaning.
Old photo (trueview)
New photos:
This is purposefully deceptive.
5
Comments
This thread is not really appropriate and violates forum rules. You might consider deleting it.
they even removed the spot in front of the neck
I edited the original post to "tone down" my message. Hopefully this doesn't not violate forum rules, it is meant to be a "caution" to potential buyers.
I think this is a worthwhile post but as a word of caution I would avoid using words like crime and fraud when referring to a seller and their listing.
get a group opinion on it, maybe its no harm done that way, fwiw
Well, that is a common business model on ebay. Some of these sellers have purchased details graded coins from me - from their same sellers accounts no less.
I learned the hard way not to trust these types of descriptions.
It takes a long time for collectors to accept that 99% of the time, coins are raw for a reason...
Potential buyers of this 1873 DDO should already know to be cautious of a raw coin.
If it was in a straight MS holder nobody sane would crack it out and sell it raw.
I don’t think it’s been dipped again, just different lighting. That said I can’t count the cleaned coins that end up in graded holders just from my experience let alone the thousands of other submitters. Buying at auction and just putting it up on eBay is a classic business model with varying degrees of integrity and Business acumen.
Here is a coin I followed on great collection last week that closed with a strong bid of 4K. Maybe 500$ above a retail price. Sure enough two days later here it is on eBay with an almost 450% mark up. Making no assertions on the sellers business but…….
https://www.ebay.com/itm/355636147429?itmmeta=01HW61YDMG7F0PFCGXJ4TBEZ5R&hash=item52cd90f4e5:g:gTIAAOSw2uBmHKU~&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAAwNT64hnOrLyaWI0RRNnjWX+BgnqB9WzJsuzRDSYwQj40N+v+01SuKakIin2Fl3CS8AmBdQ/XrN5IehCvh2eZnKP0Awj/LG6FB5mT4Wt7tf9nPAjPs6LOYI2Yl51Lih6oP/XNbHd6DpKRq2sScPNOOqZCn208HZYI0H90Tu+bTIASbKH1KlZvRD4XO8KvAP0vSTPNC+9NtSkOw/ZM5+kgsqZuavpIddtkYBaAKEpO+lE8c82jOHU5g+LurdNf0aFFug==|tkp:Bk9SR6ja-cHhYw
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Personally I don't have an issue with sellers asking moon money as long as they aren't misrepresenting what they are selling but I agree that the listing you have referenced is a bit excessive compared to the normal markups that you see from the HA/Stacks/GC to eBay model.
Seller has lots of high-priced coins, probably similar markups..
And 99% of the time the reason is that it wasn't submitted.
I don’t mind the latter of cracking out and listing it. As always buyer beware. The crack out seller is smart going for a niche coin that is a classic redbook and truly scarce collectors coin which is likely to get a couple of collectors to bid compete even knowing that it might not grade. They will all come up with independent cushions from retail and the seller just needs a few with less conservative valuations to
Come out ahead. Good chance of happening. The seller of the 82o clearly went against a collector end user who bid strong retail and a buffer to win that. He beat out the perfect customer for that coin . The less greedy might put it up with a 250$ profit baked in to try an lure the under bidder into a opportunity tax, I simply have no idea who they think the buyer for that coin is at that level. That said if you’re out there, I’ll sell you a nicer one for 15k
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
To me, the coin looks very much cleaned and maybe messed with in both photos, including the current ones. Like they say in the business, "Caveat emptor"
Obviously, this is the exact same coin- and it has had an attempt made at removing the spots with varying success. This business model angers me greatly and is highly deceptive but unfortunately, it's not illegal to crack something out and ask moon money for it. This happens in the paper money arena as well, where heavily soiled notes in details holders are washed and then sold raw, without anything more than a generic description of condition, i.e., "nice quality!", "excellent", "very collectible condition", or something similar.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I'm not saying that it's reasonable what the seller is asking but rather that if they are asking 5x, 50x or 500x above market that it's a harmless waste of time in general that doesn't bother me.
Ridiculous.
Smitten with DBLCs.
I'm confused. Do you disagree with this take? I have come to realize that high-grade key date and classic type coins sold by eBay dealers that have a value over $100, justifying the cost of grading more often then not are - details coins that have been cracked out of slabs, or will not straight grade. Obviously there are a lot of fresh coins out there that were set aside before TPGing was so prevalent, but the likelihood that a dealer / eBay seller choses to not get a PQ original surfaces, problem-free coin graded is very low compared to one that has been cleaned or damaged.
For mid-grade type coins and early American coppers, this is less the case.
I don't mind either but I wonder if it ever works? Do they do it for that blue moon transaction where someone is dumb enough to pay the inflated priced or does someone offer then greysheet retail and they sell it?
Most people with money who are serious collectors will not be fooled.
In most instances, a $100 coin is not worth grading.
Well, at least the seller was very clear....
The grading of PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG price guide is subjective and should be used as a reference so that you have a refer only!
The price guide offered by them, should be used to gauge the approximate (near or over) value of the coin, NOT THE MARKET VALUE, (which is the first priority and most important factor/specification.) as their rating vary and are subjective.
The preserved condition of the coin is the main factor to evaluate the market value which is beyond the PCGS, NGC, ANACS and ICG guidelines.
Please be aware, the book value is not the same as the market value.
The same rule are applicable for coin sold at auction as well. However auction value is what a coin was sold for and usually it is below the market value.
I like your quote; but, perhaps the benchmark should be $300.
I agree. That's a much better benchmark.
I vehemently disagree with your original unadorned statement. Not so much now that the qualifiers have been added.
Smitten with DBLCs.
Harmless unless someone buys it and gets buried. Same risk as the cleaned Indian. Both coins can be bought right or wrong and their original origin doesn’t really matter. But Positioning them to be bought at multiples of their true liquid value is what both sellers are doing using the vail of eBay anonymity is the sketchy part no? Different people fall for different tactics,
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Essentially it is suspicious when a coin who's value would only be enhanced by certification, is raw. Where an individual's spidey sense kicks in is unique, $100 seems low, $300 makes more sense, and any $1000+ offering is right on. JMHO.
Ridiculous? Yes. Sketchy? Probably if the seller made claims in the listing about how great of a deal the price was or something to that effect. Otherwise I don’t see it to be any more sketchy than someone listing their house for way over market. In the case of the cleaned Indian it would be more analogous to someone listing their home and failing to disclose a material issue such as a bad foundation. Just spitballing but I would say the majority of the ridiculous prices on eBay are created out of ignorance or delusion by sellers thinking they have something of value rather than people listing with nefarious intent.
For me the threshold is around 400 to 500. To each his own.
I factor in not only the cost but the hassle & risk as well.
Where I live postal theft has been skyrocketing.
, and the reason being is that there are literally hundreds of BILLIONS of coins out there (possibly TRILLIONS). There is no possible way of grading even a tiny percentage of them.
I would rather join with an army of sheep led by a lion, than an army of lions led by sheep.
The buyer always must to their research before purchasing. That is the chief lesson in this and any hobby. Charleton's, crooks, evil doers and other malcontents have always been with us and always will be. Scum of the earth and the like.