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How much does the grading company slab add to a coin vs raw in the same grade?
PillarDollarCollector
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Do coins sell for more because they are graded vs raw for the exact same same grade?
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
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"How much does the grading company slab add to a coin vs raw in the same grade?"
The answer to the above depends upon the coin, it's grade, appearance, rarity and value.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Lets says lower graded coins EF and below and say higher AU-MS?
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
My question is once someone cracks a coin out of a slab and puts it into a 2 by 2 without causing any sort of damage to the coin does it lose value to many people? Even though it is the exact same coin.
Some people do this because they prefer raw coins and some do it because a slabbed coin has some PVC that needs to be addressed or both.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
It does, to many people. It remains the exact same coin, in the exact same condition, but no longer has any guarantee of the grade. If we're buying the coin and not the holder it shouldn't lose any value, theoretically. But in practice, without the slab it's less liquid in the market.
It still depends on the type of coin, the date and the value range.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Say 500$ or less and 500$ or more?
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
There simply is no rule... no calculator... or anything else that can answer the question the same way all the time.
Not all coins at the same grade level are created equal just because the coin resides in a slab. Look at the surfaces of the coin, the pattern of wear combined with the strike and luster that remains. That is what matters- not the slab or the sticker- it is about a coin that survived in a natural and molested state of preservation.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It’s the difference between being able to sell the coin plus get all the money. As can buy nice slabbed material for $45 (MS69 ASE) no incentive buy raw over that as have plenty raw in junk box. Got a Prince Charles MS69 NGC 1oz Silver Britannia for $43. Furthermore $22 gets one of my raw Gem CU (low pop potential) notes graded by our hosts.
If it’s an XF common date Morgan dollar, the slab doesn’t add any value. If it’s a five-figure uncirculated piece, the difference could be thousands of dollars. You seem to be looking for a one-size-fits-all answer and it doesn’t work that way.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Do dealers sell raw coins for less than graded coins in the same exact grades? With same type of eye appeal.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
Some dealers sell such coins for less and others sell them for more. And grades aren’t necessarily set in stone or “exact”.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Most people have been burned buying raw coins at least once in their life (even if some do not know it yet). Then it comes back to financial position of buyer and how comfortable they are at buying a coin at those values you describe. There are many people not very comfortable at all paying more than $500 for a raw coin, but would fork out multiples of that for one certified by PCGS or NGC.
I ask because most of my coins are 200$ or less (90% of them) and I break them out to put them in 2 by 2's since I prefer having the freedom of not worrying about damaging the slabs and having to store them.
I like having them in a binder like this:
Anything worth 400$-500$ or more I keep graded. And if purchased raw I just leave it raw.
Doing this makes me feel closer to my collection and not just plastic slabs I need to protect with other plastic containers or made of metal. Just becomes to much especially for cheaper coins.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
I would never crack out a $200 coin just to put in an album. That’s financial suicide.
Why is that? BTW I have only ever cracked out maybe 10 coins in my entire life. Most I buy raw because Latin American coins are mostly just that found for sale raw.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
I plan on selling none of them and once I pass away they (family left) can have them graded or sell them raw. At that point it truly does not affect me. They have good careers whatever my collection is worth will not affect them.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
Coins that are commonly found raw are worth no more or less than if they were slabbed. Coins that are most often slabbed are worth more slabbed. How much more depends on scarcity, demand and ultimately, market value.
How much does the grading company slab add to a coin vs raw in the same grade?
Anywhere from zero (or less than zero in the wrong company's slab) to about 10,000,000%
I don't understand. Won't a a909 VDB graded MS-63 Red by PCGS lose some of its value the minute it is cracked out? If so, the slab added value. Is there a coin that would not apply to? It seems even a poor 1 Peace dollar is more sought after in a slab than raw also.
I’ve pretty much stopped spending more than about $100 on a raw coin, and I’ve also pretty much stopped spending less than $150 on any single coin. We can say it’s the same coin in or out of the holder but I don’t get to see enough coins in person to be confident buying raw anymore.
Also, if I’m buying online it’s got to either be in a slab or at a massive discount in case there’s something I can’t see.
I’ve got Franklins I bought raw from a trusted dealer that I know there’s no way I’m getting close to $100 for unless I pay to slab. I like them and am happy with them, but it’s the reality. I also would have paid more than $100 for them if they’d had a grade guarantee.
This is my current attitude as I’ve put all else aside and I’m working on my physical 7070. It could reasonably take me 20 years to achieve the goal I want, and I’m okay with that. Everything gets cracked whether it’s $100 or $3,000.
If I die my wife and sons are more than well versed in what to do. They have their own collections . They know who the reliable TPGs are and I have excellent records showing what I paid. They have the brains to pick and choose, send in the whole lot, or sell em all raw. Either way, it’s not my problem if I’m dead. Life insurance and assets, coupled with their own self-supporting incomes will leave them just fine.
Having fun while switching things up and focusing on a next level PCGS slabbed 1950+ type set, while still looking for great examples for the 7070.
Here’s what I’ve experienced….
Let’s say, hypothetically, if one is going to sell a raw MS-64-65 Morgan (for example), and shopping it around to some dealers. Some of those dealers are going to low-ball their offers on a raw coin. In fact, some might even accuse it of being a “slider” and propose that they’re doing you a great favor by taking it off your hands at an AU price.
If the coin is graded, there exists a wholesale market for such pieces, and thus, less wiggle room in the interpretation of the grade for that coin- ideally- when selling.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I think a lot of players would low ball or pass on a big ticket raw coin. The TPG grade sets the stage for the seller to get all the money. Without that your blowing in the wind.
And most importantly, the buyer.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Do you think it’s possible that you might change your plans one day and sell some of your coins before you die?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The answer is yes for PCGS graded coins in general.
Only if I replace the coin I am selling. Other than that no they will stay in my collections till I pass away.
Coin collecting interests: Latin American early pillar 1 reales
Sports: NFL & NHL
In this case, I wasn't concerned about grade. I was the lone bidder in an eBay auction a few years ago for this beautifully engraved 1799/8 Draped Bust $1. Opening bid, $1250 was fair, in my opinion, even for a raw details coin. At the time, in November 2021, that was straight grade money. The seller's pics were nice enough to ease my concern about buying a raw coin for that much money. In short order, I sent it in to get encapsulated, because I wanted to enjoy (and share with others) the TrueView image. An attractive TrueView is worth something much more than the cost of grading, when making a decision to buy, online. Even so, on a details graded coin like this, a third-party opinion is far less important than for a $1250 Indian Cent in MS65RB. I would never risk buying that Indian Cent example, raw. There are fewer variables to be concerned about when considering my engraved example. So, to repeat what others have already mentioned, "It depends on the coin." I would love my engraved specimen just as much if it were protected in a Air-Tite holder. That said, if my eBay auction had been competitive, and the coin were in a PCGS holder with this TrueView, I suspect I would have risked many more hundred dollars more for the same coin. This is perhaps the most irreplaceable coin in my collection.
Matt Snebold
The slab adds zero value to a raw coin "in the exact grade". But that assumes that you and the buyer agree on the grade for the raw coin and its authenticity. It is much easier to establish value for a slabbed coin during a sale than a raw coin. Invariably, a buyer will grade the raw coin conservatively and even build in an authenticity risk into the price.
The result is that most raw coins sell for less than they would of not cracked out but its not Berghaus they are raw vs slabbed. It's because it will be hard to get the buyer to see it as exactly the same grade.
Edited to add. The one exception is registry set coins. You do get huge premiums for lowball, 58 every man, and condition census common coins that do not translate into the raw coin market.
There are coins that are heavily counterfeited such as 1909-S VDB cents, 1916-D dimes, gold dollars, gold $3, etc. where a slab from a major grading service adds value and certainly makes it easier to sell especially on venues such as eBay.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Yes, the 1909-VDB cent would probably lose some value in the eyes of many, if not most potential buyers. On the other hand, as an example I gave previously, I don’t think the same would go for an XF common date Morgan dollar. As another example, many dealers (who can easily spot most counterfeits) would pay the same for AU and lower graded generic gold coins, such as $20 Saints.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Just because a coin is slabbed doesn’t mean that it is eye appealing or accurately graded.
As far as grading goes, coins slabbed by one of the major services are far more likely to be accurately graded than most raw coins found for sale on eBay or in most coin shops.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
There are people who collect coins for registry, there are people who only buy coins in slabs for the usual “risk”reasons or for uniformity, there are people who don’t buy raw coins at all. There are a lot of such people. If you have a raw coin, there are fewer people to buy it, especially as the cost goes up. Less demand means lower price.
BTW a 7070 set is one thing. A complete type set is another. When one gets to the half disme, crack that out and I’ll buy dinner.
Sounds spot on. For a good education take say a $3,000 dealer priced coin to a major show and shop it around and see what you get. Crack it out and shop it around the next day and see what you get.
MY COINS FOR SALE AT https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/other/bajjerfans-coins-sale/3876
In the majority of cases, Yes, assuming of course a major grading company.
Joe.
Amen.
The very broad general answer to your question is "Yes, slabbing does add value". People wouldn't be all crazy about slabbing if this were not true. How much? This depends on a broad range of factors, as noted by others above. One factor not yet mentioned is the expectations of the collector base that would be interested in buying the coin - are they expecting/demanding their coins be slabbed, or not? Let's consider a few examples.
American coins, yes, slabbing considerably adds to the value. For lower-tier coins (coins that are common, or low-grade, or both), the "added value" more or less matches the cost of slabbing, so there's little or no net gain. But for higher tier coins, it can be two, three, ten times the price. People might say "buy the coin and not the slab", but people still prefer to trust the slab, at least as far as determining whether or not the coin is lying to them about its condition (i.e. if it's been cleaned, doctored, counterfeit, etc). One only has to point at the crackout game to prove that "the slab adds value". Submit a coin 99 times, and it comes back MS-65, worth $5000. Submit it the hundredth time and it comes back MS66, suddenly worth $50,000. But it's the same coin.
Spanish Colonial, probably much the same, as the strongest demand for Spanish Colonial comes from the US - there's very little local demand in Spain or Latin America to form a baseline for the unslabbed collector market. And US-based collectors prefer slabs.
Ancient coins, generally not. Most ancients collectors don't want their coins slabbed, mainly because the three key purported benefits of slabbing - authentication, grading, and preservation - simply aren't convincing arguments for ancient coins; the TPGs won't guarantee authenticity of ancients, the TPGs are often either wrong or incomplete in their identification and attribution of an ancient, and ancient coins have already existed for a couple thousand years without being slabbed, so they don't seem to need the help with preservation. Personally, I'd give a slabbed ancient a slight negative value, because I'm going to have to go to the trouble of cracking it out.
British coins are another sphere where slabbing is of little to no benefit. Most collectors of British coins aren't in the US - they're in Britain, or one of the British ex-colonies, and apart from Canada, slabbing simply isn't popular in the Commonwealth. So there isn't much local demand for slabbing, which results in very low premiums for the slabbed coins. A contributing factor no doubt is that British grading standards are much tighter than US grading standards, but the TPGs insist on grading British coins by US standards. So from a British collector's point of view, every single slabbed coin is severely overgraded; your typical "AU-50" slabbed coin would probably be called gVF in Britain. Why would they pay a premium for an overgraded coin?
Chinese coins, on the other hand, are seeing a huge difference between slabbed and unslabbed, simply because of the prevalence of high quality fakes. The slabbers don't guarantee authenticity for Chinese coins for this reason, but the TPG's opinion is still better than no opinion at all, which is what you get with raw coins. But for Chinese coins, to really ensure maximization of value, you need the trifecta: slabbing, a knowledgeable and reputable seller, and good provenance.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.
Guarantee of authenticity that one gets with a PCGS graded coin is a much bigger deal than any so-called guarantee of grade. Do any of the TPG's actually guarantee the grade they might assign to a coin? Does not the rise of the green and gold bean raise serious questions about imagined TPG grade guarantees?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
Buyers want TPG assurance - take that away goodbye and good luck.
Once somebody cracks out a slabbed coin all bets are off what they can get for it raw shopping it around the bourse. The owner (cracking it out) is shooting himself in the foot in terms of marketing potential. Once owner shops it around they will find out. I would be surprised if they even got offered MS60 bid.
Furthermore more any new owner is back at square one if slabbing it. Slab expense, possibility of it even downgrading. What if it went bad in the holder and needs preservation work? So even with that it will be severely discounted plus additional hedge if buyer pads down offer - counterfeit risk, body bag risk, hassle of sending it off for grading, etc. We do not finance their mistakes lol.
Crack it out and submit it for eBay auction raw starting at 99c and you will find out.
It's a function of many variables:
From whom are you buying? -- I don't live near any good brick-and-mortar coin shops, so all my significant purchases are from reputable online vendors, relying on a combination of reputation and photos. Under these circumstances, I will not buy a ray coin that costs more than about US$200. If (i) I were more expert, and (ii) I could buy coins after seeing them, I might feel differently.
What is the general price level of the coin? -- The more expensive the coin, the greater the risk of buying raw.
Do you anticipate re-selling the coin? -- The same coin certified by a reputable TPG will be more liquid than if it's raw. Either my heirs or I will be selling my coins someday.
So, for me, the answer is that I simply won't buy expensive coins not certified by a reputable TPG (and it must be from a reputable vendor). And I would pay somewhat more for a less-expensive coin certified by a reputable TPG (even if I plan to crack it out).
To me, I prefer having a slabbed coin with the expert opinions of professional graders.
I told my son that when I die, he can check the serial numbers of a coin on line, to get a general idea on the value of the coin. A starting point to consider a price when he sells.
My son could care less about, and pretty much knows nothing about coins. Even though I will be gone, I don't want my son to get ripped off when he sells. This way, he will have a clue to the approximate value of what he is selling.
Although I own many raw low cost, and raw expensive coins, I always prefer a slabbed coin of the same quality, over raw.
Even for silver eagles, if I can buy a certified coin for close to the same price as raw, I will always take the slab. Simply for authenticity, ease of selling, and long term protection of the coin.
Slab is a must if I am out of my collecting lane.
The TV probably adds the most value for me at the purchase and resale.
I will slab a high grade modern coin just because it is convenient to store.
In general, it creates a floor of value
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Yes, and it's simple common sense, across the board. If it was not the case, third party grading would not be a sustainable business, because there simply would not be enough people willing to burn money by doing something with coins (sending them in for slabbing) that does not add to their value.
What everyone else is saying is lower value coins do not receive enough of a bump in value to justify the cost of grading, so breaking a coin out is not a big deal. And, of course, a low value coin that no one cares about being in a holder will not sell for more in the holder.
But, if the saying "buy the coin, not the holder" was literally true, no one would spend money to have coins placed in holders, because those holders would not make coins easier to sell, and would not add to their value. And private equity would have no interest in being in the space.
I can just picture the puzzled faces people would have had upon seeing the hundred or so AG/G Indian cents my Oma gave me in slabs. I think many people have a fiscal wall of some sort that says "This is cheap enough I don't care/ this is serious money I want some protection." Mine is anything over $100 dollars. Of course coins themselves tend to dictate what is or is not worth putting in a slab. Seen a lot of common date Ag Indian cents in slabs?
likewise, how many people cough up full retail for an Ag 1877? James
Lower price coins .. as was said is it worth the cost of grading? Subjective.
I only care about coins being graded to assure me that the coins aren't
1)Counterfeit
2)restored and for
3)Liquidity (don't argue with me if you don't like the grade).
The lower priced collector coins that I buy, have already been slabbed when I buy them.
Sometimes, they can even be obtained at about the same price as raw coins of the same grade. So, no slabbing expense for me anyway.
So, all things being equal, I will always choose the professionally graded coin over the raw.
As you can tell by the coins that I post on these forums, I have "many" lower priced slabbed coins. Such as the one pictured below.
Slabbing definitely adds value. Its grade is more difficult to dispute, since it has been reviewed by experts. And there is no concern over problems (whizzing, cleaning, tooling, etc.) and counterfeiting. The coin is also protected in the slab and someone has taken the time and money to send it in, which for some (including myself) Is a very tedious, time consuming, unpleasant task. It can also be photographed and added to a registry set, if that is your jam. There are many, many benefits to slabbing versus leaving the coin raw. I don’t buy raw coins, at all, anymore.
“I may not believe in myself but I believe in what I’m doing” ~Jimmy Page~
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947)
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
It allows the coin to achieve its MV in a sale.