I am definitely curious about how this will affect SGC in the short term as far as pricing and turn-around time, before the proposed transition is finalized.
After the merge, will there be multiple addresses for subs, similar to the Canadian KSA model, where the submitter can choose based on region?
Or, will certain categories go to one address while others go to another (for example, all prewar to the SGC grading address while post war go to Newport Beach, or something like that?)
Separate of that, it will be a fun data point to see what ends up being the last card graded by SGC.
Big news. Based on our complaints about some of the grades we are getting, maybe the combination will allow on certain years or types to be graded at each location. Thus, Josh at SGC will grade 1991 and older sports cards or all cards. Then NJ will grade Pokemon, Magic, etc and then California will grade 1992 and up sports. Something along those lines. So the graders essentially are experts at certain cards not trying to experts at all cards.
I do feel very bad for the SGC employees. This is strictly a purchase to eliminate competition and now for Vintage Trading Card grading there will be none.
PSA now has in effect prevented the average person from receiving a grade higher than a 6 on a pre-1976 sports card. Census median's will continue to maintained via allotments. Allotments to who some may ask, well a tenant of great business is to keep your largest customers the happiest.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
someone across the street brought up the idea that SGC could be the vintage grading portion while PSA did modern and ultra modern. not sure if that is even a possibility or if they will continue to operate as separate entities or if they will eventually kill the SGC brand. It will be interesting to see this play out.
@craig44 said:
someone across the street brought up the idea that SGC could be the vintage grading portion while PSA did modern and ultra modern. not sure if that is even a possibility or if they will continue to operate as separate entities or if they will eventually kill the SGC brand. It will be interesting to see this play out.
something like that makes sense. SGC is really not a danger to PSA currently based on the gemrate numbers. Pricing i believe is kind of "negotiated" amongst the companies already.
Despite what SGC Pete said today, here is what I think will happen.
1) In the short run, this is going to lead to less specials by PSA. SGCs pricing and turnaround times kept PSAs vintage specials coming. Though they didn’t lose market share, the market has grown significantly. No specials, no problem you will grade with us anyway at SGC.
2) At some point I think PSA just kills the SGC brand. Cost saves will happen by just combining the two. Their marketing dollars will steal from each other rather than get more cards graded. PSA already has the market share to control the spigot of cards coming to them on each category through the specials they run.
3) Crossovers will become more fair and more expensive on SGC cards. Nat has said that the reason they are so conservative is the inability to see the card out of the case. Now they can crack and reslab into an SGC holder. If business lags offering a crossover/reholder option will boost submissions.
4) PSA will lower the limit on their guarantee. They put a limit last year and the guarantee is their main differentiator as a grading company. If this causes a backlash (which it won’t) at all on high end cards - what am I paying extra for if the guarantee only covers xxx - then I will just go get it graded at SGC for cheaper. OK we have your money anyway. Even after they kill the SGC brand there is little risk to lowering the limit. Who is going to switch to BVG or CSG for vintage or especially pre-war.
Great move for PSA. Bad move for the hobby and competition.
I am IMMEDIATELY sending all my MinSizes, etc... that PSA wouldn't grade to SGC before PSA gets their hands on that company and ruins their vintage grading too.
I hope they'll create a Set Registry that allows for PSA and SGC cards. That would make me happy.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
At least it's something. When this particular acquisition was supposedly imminent a few years back (ultimately didn't close obviously) it seemed like people were much more positive about it, so, to me, that is interesting.
@estang said:
Lack of competition is bad for the consumer. It encourages complacency & will increase pricing.
What is PSA actually buying other than single-digit market share?
Could they have done this because Fanatics was looking to buy SGC and had that happened, it would have been catastrophic for Collectors?
Interesting take and I'm not sure you're wrong. It does seem a bit weird they'd be buying this company with such a small footprint.
No matter the reason it does seem to be from a position of weakness. They're either doing it to be bigger to be bought, doing it to fend off someone buying SGC and becoming a bigger player than PSA or doing it because they know they're starting to lose a lot of business to a company customers find to be better.
@estang said:
Lack of competition is bad for the consumer. It encourages complacency & will increase pricing.
What is PSA actually buying other than single-digit market share?
Could they have done this because Fanatics was looking to buy SGC and had that happened, it would have been catastrophic for Collectors?
Yeah PSA doesn't need them. I agree. The SGC team is happy because of the pay day I guess. i will tell you that's it's easier to work for your self than someone else.
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
@mintonlypls said:
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
Good question. If PSA keeps the SGC name forever, than it probably strengthens the SGC value. If they get rid of the SGC name (which seems king of likely unless the SGC name becomes something like a bvg - older cards), then it probably hurts the SGC value. It's yet to be seen what exact role SGC will have.
With the top 3 highest selling cards having an SGC label, I would assume PSA would be open to continuing the brand. It does sound probable that they wanted to keep SGC from being purchased by someone else.
@mintonlypls said:
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
Man I hope so. Would love to buy up great cards on the cheap.
I think there is something to this and it depends on timing. If PSA kills the SGC brand tomorrow I don’t think it will matter much and I would buy a lot of SGC if prices fall.
If they kill the SGC brand 5 years from now after offering a cross with SGC holder reslab option for 3 years first, I think SGC slabs sell at a severe discount.
In either scenario I keep the roughly 125 SGC cards as is - no way I would rather pay to cross them instead of using that money to add to my collection. If I am ever am forced to sell then PSA might ultimately get $ from me but not until.
I will continue to be slabnostic and buy the card instead of the holder unless SGC cards get to the point of lemons theory. Bought two SGC cards in the last week - An SGC 7.5 1957 Herzog Rookie and an SGC 8 1967 Torre. Would still have bought those cards today and expect that will be the case a year from now.
Counter scenario - PSA lets you put SGC cards into your registry set. Would SGC cards go up?
Quotes from the article. They are at least saying now that SGC will continue as is. Just talk, who knows…
“SGC will remain an independent grading brand,” said SGC President Peter Steinberg. “And no changes are contemplated. Joining forces with the Collectors team will allow SGC to double down on our strengths while greatly enhancing our capabilities to innovate and modernize our offerings moving forward.”
“Our portfolio focuses on service providers that bring expertise, quality and value to hobbyists, and SGC has built a strong reputation on these three fronts,” remarked Collectors CEO Nat Turner. “We recognize that every collector has their own preferred authentication and grading provider, and we look forward to providing expertise that will continue to enhance SGC’s customer offering.”
@mintonlypls said:
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
GAI was a failed company, SGC is not. It was bought out by the #1 company.
If anything, it gives SGC more legitimacy if people start equating SGC with PSA.
@mintonlypls said:
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
GAI was a failed company, SGC is not. It was bought out by the #1 company.
If anything, it gives SGC more legitimacy if people start equating SGC with PSA.
@shagrotn77 said:
I hope they'll create a Set Registry that allows for PSA and SGC cards. That would make me happy.
Agreed. In my best Howard Schnellenberger voice "We'll be a player in the Clyde Drexler Registry. A collision course with greatness. The only variable is time"
Look, one of the reasons I bought SGC was I could buy them cheaper than PSA and would buy the card not the holder (a good line is always a good line)... That doesn't mean I need to sell them for "on the cheap"...
Less graders equates to greater consistency. Math don't lie...
A lot of uncertainty for sure, right now. Time will tell in regards to the value of SGC slabbed cards. I own SGC cards too…and hope values will increase.
Bummer on the Bert. By comparison the Fred Lynn doesn't look very strong for the grade. Those borders on that '71 Blyleven are pretty exceptional. The centering is a little off top to bottom, but for a '71 it's great and it would look incredible signed -perhaps with a "3701 K's" inscription". How about $2500?
1 company 2 different slabs? When will the changes stop? I guess soon. There is now only one.
I’d also guess sgc fades away now. And cross over city happens for all the millions of already graded sgc slabs. It’s like the old new .5 era again for reviews but now crossovers.
Smart and a big money maker.
I hope they are not thinking bgs,Bvg,bccg style and are thinking 1 label still.
There are tons and tons of oddball and foreign items that SGC grades but PSA does not. I wonder if after the merge, it will result in PSA being more inclusive about cards they grade by adding the Research & Data Specs catalog that SGC maintains; or, if it will instead eliminate the option of these types of items from being able to be graded even if they formerly were by SGC?
@sayheywyo said:
I'd be more concerned with membership fees, pricing tiers and up charges. Combining SGC into the registry would only diminish the PSA brand.
i agree. The upcharges will probably come into play. Or why wouldn't you just send it to SGC everytime. Unless they will just be doing a certain function. I think one or two people hit on Fanatics. I think that's what prompted the purchase out of nowhere it seems. PSA just bought and said to themselves after we have it then we will decide how to deal with it. I guess fearing the if Fanatics got it, they could make some strong in roads.
@mintonlypls said:
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
GAI was a failed company, SGC is not. It was bought out by the #1 company.
If anything, it gives SGC more legitimacy if people start equating SGC with PSA.
@bgr said:
Bummer on the Bert. By comparison the Fred Lynn doesn't look very strong for the grade. Those borders on that '71 Blyleven are pretty exceptional. The centering is a little off top to bottom, but for a '71 it's great and it would look incredible signed -perhaps with a "3701 K's" inscription". How about $2500?
@bgr said:
Bummer on the Bert. By comparison the Fred Lynn doesn't look very strong for the grade. Those borders on that '71 Blyleven are pretty exceptional. The centering is a little off top to bottom, but for a '71 it's great and it would look incredible signed -perhaps with a "3701 K's" inscription". How about $2500?
» show previous quotes
I'd guess his price will be somewhere between $35,000 and $2M....
While not for sale somewhere in that neighborhood would do it! Not interested in selling - thanks.
Insanity!
IMHO it would be a good candidate to bump but with the recent acquisition how would that turn out? Have you ever tried?
Unless you are rich I would ask you to consider selling if you could get anywhere near 35K. Go out and get something that provides more enjoyment. I sold some priceless cards of all the greats. It hurt for awhile but going fishing in a nice bass boat or buying the car you have always wanted should be considered.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Comments
ohhhh. I dont know that I like the sound of that...
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I am definitely curious about how this will affect SGC in the short term as far as pricing and turn-around time, before the proposed transition is finalized.
After the merge, will there be multiple addresses for subs, similar to the Canadian KSA model, where the submitter can choose based on region?
Or, will certain categories go to one address while others go to another (for example, all prewar to the SGC grading address while post war go to Newport Beach, or something like that?)
Separate of that, it will be a fun data point to see what ends up being the last card graded by SGC.
I hate the thought of SGC becoming a dead brand
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Competition creates improvement in quality and helps keep cost steady. Lack of competition brings nothing worthwhile.
http://www.unisquare.com/store/brick/
Ralph
Big news. Based on our complaints about some of the grades we are getting, maybe the combination will allow on certain years or types to be graded at each location. Thus, Josh at SGC will grade 1991 and older sports cards or all cards. Then NJ will grade Pokemon, Magic, etc and then California will grade 1992 and up sports. Something along those lines. So the graders essentially are experts at certain cards not trying to experts at all cards.
wow, that is big news.
I do feel very bad for the SGC employees. This is strictly a purchase to eliminate competition and now for Vintage Trading Card grading there will be none.
PSA now has in effect prevented the average person from receiving a grade higher than a 6 on a pre-1976 sports card. Census median's will continue to maintained via allotments. Allotments to who some may ask, well a tenant of great business is to keep your largest customers the happiest.
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
someone across the street brought up the idea that SGC could be the vintage grading portion while PSA did modern and ultra modern. not sure if that is even a possibility or if they will continue to operate as separate entities or if they will eventually kill the SGC brand. It will be interesting to see this play out.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
something like that makes sense. SGC is really not a danger to PSA currently based on the gemrate numbers. Pricing i believe is kind of "negotiated" amongst the companies already.
Despite what SGC Pete said today, here is what I think will happen.
1) In the short run, this is going to lead to less specials by PSA. SGCs pricing and turnaround times kept PSAs vintage specials coming. Though they didn’t lose market share, the market has grown significantly. No specials, no problem you will grade with us anyway at SGC.
2) At some point I think PSA just kills the SGC brand. Cost saves will happen by just combining the two. Their marketing dollars will steal from each other rather than get more cards graded. PSA already has the market share to control the spigot of cards coming to them on each category through the specials they run.
3) Crossovers will become more fair and more expensive on SGC cards. Nat has said that the reason they are so conservative is the inability to see the card out of the case. Now they can crack and reslab into an SGC holder. If business lags offering a crossover/reholder option will boost submissions.
4) PSA will lower the limit on their guarantee. They put a limit last year and the guarantee is their main differentiator as a grading company. If this causes a backlash (which it won’t) at all on high end cards - what am I paying extra for if the guarantee only covers xxx - then I will just go get it graded at SGC for cheaper. OK we have your money anyway. Even after they kill the SGC brand there is little risk to lowering the limit. Who is going to switch to BVG or CSG for vintage or especially pre-war.
Great move for PSA. Bad move for the hobby and competition.
I am IMMEDIATELY sending all my MinSizes, etc... that PSA wouldn't grade to SGC before PSA gets their hands on that company and ruins their vintage grading too.
I hope they'll create a Set Registry that allows for PSA and SGC cards. That would make me happy.
That would be great. Dabbled on the registry and with 25% of my cards being SGC nothing of mine is ever complete.
At least it's something. When this particular acquisition was supposedly imminent a few years back (ultimately didn't close obviously) it seemed like people were much more positive about it, so, to me, that is interesting.
Lack of competition is bad for the consumer. It encourages complacency & will increase pricing.
What is PSA actually buying other than single-digit market share?
Could they have done this because Fanatics was looking to buy SGC and had that happened, it would have been catastrophic for Collectors?
Erik
Interesting take and I'm not sure you're wrong. It does seem a bit weird they'd be buying this company with such a small footprint.
No matter the reason it does seem to be from a position of weakness. They're either doing it to be bigger to be bought, doing it to fend off someone buying SGC and becoming a bigger player than PSA or doing it because they know they're starting to lose a lot of business to a company customers find to be better.
Yeah PSA doesn't need them. I agree. The SGC team is happy because of the pay day I guess. i will tell you that's it's easier to work for your self than someone else.
Will the resulting acquisition have a negative impact on selling prices for SGC holdered cards? Having gone belly-up…GAI-holdered cards are cheaper even if the cards are legitimately unaltered. It seems to me that this news is negative for SGC holdered cards.
I'm only glad this is happening now instead of when I started collecting.
Good question. If PSA keeps the SGC name forever, than it probably strengthens the SGC value. If they get rid of the SGC name (which seems king of likely unless the SGC name becomes something like a bvg - older cards), then it probably hurts the SGC value. It's yet to be seen what exact role SGC will have.
With the top 3 highest selling cards having an SGC label, I would assume PSA would be open to continuing the brand. It does sound probable that they wanted to keep SGC from being purchased by someone else.
Man I hope so. Would love to buy up great cards on the cheap.
I think there is something to this and it depends on timing. If PSA kills the SGC brand tomorrow I don’t think it will matter much and I would buy a lot of SGC if prices fall.
If they kill the SGC brand 5 years from now after offering a cross with SGC holder reslab option for 3 years first, I think SGC slabs sell at a severe discount.
In either scenario I keep the roughly 125 SGC cards as is - no way I would rather pay to cross them instead of using that money to add to my collection. If I am ever am forced to sell then PSA might ultimately get $ from me but not until.
I will continue to be slabnostic and buy the card instead of the holder unless SGC cards get to the point of lemons theory. Bought two SGC cards in the last week - An SGC 7.5 1957 Herzog Rookie and an SGC 8 1967 Torre. Would still have bought those cards today and expect that will be the case a year from now.
Counter scenario - PSA lets you put SGC cards into your registry set. Would SGC cards go up?
Just because threads are better with pics - my nicest SGC card for the grade
Holy smokes!!! Looks like a 10.
I cannot see anything positive coming from this.
Quotes from the article. They are at least saying now that SGC will continue as is. Just talk, who knows…
“SGC will remain an independent grading brand,” said SGC President Peter Steinberg. “And no changes are contemplated. Joining forces with the Collectors team will allow SGC to double down on our strengths while greatly enhancing our capabilities to innovate and modernize our offerings moving forward.”
“Our portfolio focuses on service providers that bring expertise, quality and value to hobbyists, and SGC has built a strong reputation on these three fronts,” remarked Collectors CEO Nat Turner. “We recognize that every collector has their own preferred authentication and grading provider, and we look forward to providing expertise that will continue to enhance SGC’s customer offering.”
Nic
Guides Authored - Graded Card Scanning Guide PDF | History of the PSA Label PDF
GAI was a failed company, SGC is not. It was bought out by the #1 company.
If anything, it gives SGC more legitimacy if people start equating SGC with PSA.
That card needs a white tuxedo.
do you want to sell that '71 bly?
Holy smokes!!! Looks like a 10. > @RonSportscards said:
certainly could.
Good Lord what a beautiful '71.
Agreed. In my best Howard Schnellenberger voice "We'll be a player in the Clyde Drexler Registry. A collision course with greatness. The only variable is time"
I'd guess his price will be somewhere between $35,000 and $2M....
While not for sale somewhere in that neighborhood would do it! Not interested in selling - thanks.
This is 1 of my 2 SGC cards (none higher) but I'm about to get a bunch more.
That Aaron is amazing. Wow!!!
I think the prices for SGC will rise in value.
Look, one of the reasons I bought SGC was I could buy them cheaper than PSA and would buy the card not the holder (a good line is always a good line)... That doesn't mean I need to sell them for "on the cheap"...
Less graders equates to greater consistency. Math don't lie...
Erik
A lot of uncertainty for sure, right now. Time will tell in regards to the value of SGC slabbed cards. I own SGC cards too…and hope values will increase.
Bummer on the Bert. By comparison the Fred Lynn doesn't look very strong for the grade. Those borders on that '71 Blyleven are pretty exceptional. The centering is a little off top to bottom, but for a '71 it's great and it would look incredible signed -perhaps with a "3701 K's" inscription". How about $2500?
Thanks. I pulled that at a Heritage auction 6 years ago.
No one's ever offered me $35,000, but someone did offer $3,500.
I turned them down because I don't sell any of my cards (at least not yet).
Not for sale. But thanks.
1 company 2 different slabs? When will the changes stop? I guess soon. There is now only one.
I’d also guess sgc fades away now. And cross over city happens for all the millions of already graded sgc slabs. It’s like the old new .5 era again for reviews but now crossovers.
Smart and a big money maker.
I hope they are not thinking bgs,Bvg,bccg style and are thinking 1 label still.
To me the Aaron looks skinny/min size… definitely keep that in the SGC holder.
I will miss SGC even though not fully trusted them.
There are tons and tons of oddball and foreign items that SGC grades but PSA does not. I wonder if after the merge, it will result in PSA being more inclusive about cards they grade by adding the Research & Data Specs catalog that SGC maintains; or, if it will instead eliminate the option of these types of items from being able to be graded even if they formerly were by SGC?
I'd be more concerned with membership fees, pricing tiers and up charges. Combining SGC into the registry would only diminish the PSA brand.
i agree. The upcharges will probably come into play. Or why wouldn't you just send it to SGC everytime. Unless they will just be doing a certain function. I think one or two people hit on Fanatics. I think that's what prompted the purchase out of nowhere it seems. PSA just bought and said to themselves after we have it then we will decide how to deal with it. I guess fearing the if Fanatics got it, they could make some strong in roads.
this is a good point.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
this is not the bst forum. take it to dms
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
@BBBrkrr said:
» show previous quotes
I'd guess his price will be somewhere between $35,000 and $2M....
While not for sale somewhere in that neighborhood would do it! Not interested in selling - thanks.
Insanity!
IMHO it would be a good candidate to bump but with the recent acquisition how would that turn out? Have you ever tried?
Unless you are rich I would ask you to consider selling if you could get anywhere near 35K. Go out and get something that provides more enjoyment. I sold some priceless cards of all the greats. It hurt for awhile but going fishing in a nice bass boat or buying the car you have always wanted should be considered.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
The moral of the story is... if you need less money, buy a boat!