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For some of you with some extra coin..
olb31
Posts: 2,986 ✭✭✭✭✭
Martin-Sports has a 1981 OPC Nolan Ryan PSA 10 listed for $3,000. Pop 14. A Topps PSA 10 sold within the last few weeks for $5,355. POP 41. Don't think you can wrong here, especially with the new grading standards.
Work hard and you will succeed!!
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That is if you like recently sheet cut cards.
it's in a PSA 10 holder, what can I say. they all came in sheets and they were all cut at some point.
It's not my card either.
I noticed a 1977 topps Yount in PSA 10 brought $5,100 on eBay about a week ago. I think a pop 10 if I remember correctly.
A 1981 Topps Pete Rose PSA 10 brought $5100 on Ebay the other day. That's some serious dough for a pop 32 from 1981.
Both statements are correct. The way the grading is going (with the thin paper used by opc) its going to be very difficult for many or any OPC cards from 1980 and down to get 10's. In the past they overlooked the cardboard issues for the most part. Now you get 7's or 8's.
People are gobbling up the 10's while they can. in 2 years you will hardly see these cards on EBAY.
Reasonably I mean.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Yes I watched that and IMO that card is not a 10. Not even close.
They sold another one last month for $2750.
Cut from a sheet 100%. Amazing that PSA will downgrade a card to a 5 for a surface flaw the eye can’t see but let these sheet cut cards get through.
And once this one sells, he’ll make another one. Quite the racket.
So what's the story with multiple people feeling a card is sheet cut and managed to get by PSA and would again? Have info? See something in the card?
I looked at it and it does not look sheet cut to me based on what I would typically associate with sheet cut. There is a stray fiber at the top and it is a touch rough and jagged up top. I mean I suppose someone could cut it that way but it would seem challenging. I feel like the tipoff on sheet cut is too sharp too clean of an edge on an old card that does not look aged or cut by Topps 40 years ago because it was just cut.
It’s not rocket science to dull a blade to make a rough opc cut.
He and others (the guys out west) perfected it.
Martin sports has been doing this for years, amongst other things.
Are you saying he has another sheet or original plates and cardboard.
If people here don’t know why there will be many more 10’s in the future then I’m not going to tell them why there will be plenty more.
There are plenty of PSA 9’s out there that can easily make a 10 through a large or favorable submission.
I added him to my no-buy list a long time ago.
I doubt that.
PSA (with some exceptions and a few mistakes) has never liked to give out 10's, and it would seem that has gotten a LOT worse of late.
The card originally discussed was from 1981 and vintage seem to be the hardest hit by the "new" grading standards.
There will be exceptions of course, but anyone sending in a card previously graded a 9 is much more likely to get a lower grade than either the same 9 or a 10.
Your statement is similar (but not the same) to the fallacy that there's so much unopened material out there, there's going to be a lot of 10's waiting to be opened and submitted. That's simply incorrect.
The other part of this discussion is similarly strange. Now all PSA 10's are going to be accused of being sheet cut?
PLENTY of cards in PSA holders have been sheet cut or altered, I guess if it's been done well enough to fool PSA, I'm not sure what can be said.
You either trust the grading company or you don't. I don't have the $ to invest in this card, but if I did, I would surely consider buying it.
It's a beauty!
Thanks for the heads up. Good to know. What evidence came out that this was being done? People who knew him witnessing it or him admitting it?
It may not be rocket science but dont think I could do it. Used to cut up a ton for Beckett. Then over the pandemic years I would estimate I cut up about 150 1984 Nestle cards that PSA accepts as an activity/distraction with not a ton to do. And my pretty sharp but not razor sharp blade would sometimes deliver razor sharp Topps Chromesque specimens and then sometimes it was too dull and it was an epic fail that just destroyed the card and ripped it to shreds. So I would think a duller blade often would just ruin the card. Using scissors in your left hand would look ridiculous. So I would be curious on the approach.
Met a guy many many years ago who could sneak stuff by. Think something needs to be done to rough it up after and make it look not too blazing sharp but not too much. Cant sandpaper it. I'm not interested in doing it myself and pulling a fast one and getting away with it. But I would be very interested in knowing how it was done.
Pretty sure he will tell you if you ask him in person at shows.
He tried to buy sheets off me and everyone else. He purchased many from auction houses and associates over the years.
All you need is a dull blade on a rotary. It works.
The sad truth is though that Martin Sports can use a sharp blade cut on vintage OPC now and PSA will authenticate it even though it’s obvious it’s a very sharp blade sheet cut.
Just take a close look at the front and back of this card below.
PSA = Beckett now in their grading standards.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285638524089?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=YOMtNvrMTLO&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=l0X1ohu8Sm2&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY
Many people love his stuff and his feedback is perfect.
He does sell a lot of KSA cards which suprises me.
I just want to know where did he find a 1974 opc baseball sheet. That’s quite the accomplishment!
$750
Im not sure why it matters who cuts the cards? Maybe he worked for OPC and cut them there, who knows. WHo cares. I have no idea who cut any of the millions of cards I have. Suppose it was democrat. Suppose it was a republican. Suppose it was a 25 year old, suppose it was a 60 year old.
The card has been graded by the most reputable grading card company in the world.
He never worked for OPC.
Hobby purists care. Those who just want high grades don’t.
It depends what you mean by reputable.
To each their own. Many people just want the high grades any way they can get them. They don’t care about anything but that.
Hidhoe, I see your point but in the modern world with so many more serious scams going on like counterfeit cards, touch ups, etc. this to me is not as important.
I do appreciate the purists like you that oversee the hobby to try and make it a better place. Thank you!
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
LOL!!
Totally agree, but PSA 1999 would have never graded that 1974 opc Munson. PSA 2024 will.
PSA 1999 was much better.
To be honest I don’t care anymore.
I left the high grade PSA hobby years ago. For those who still enjoy it I’m happy for you. To each their own.
I just like nice looking cards. There are so few times a 43 year old Nolan Ryan PSA 10 pops up. The price in my opinion is pretty darn fair. Pop 11, may never be another or in all likely hood no more than 15 .
Correct, I have no issue with what he does. It is all well known, he sells sheets, and anyone that follows these issues knows some of these cards simply don’t come 50/50 out of a pack. His stuff used to be mostly BGS and is now mostly PSA.
Do you care if they are recut? If I don’t like the cut on a card I have I trust you have no issues with me recutting? Because who cares who cuts the card right?
What is so serious about a retouch? With all the other issues in the hobby why would we care if colour was added where it was supposed to be in the first place?
80's opc - we grade, to do away with irregularities and doubt. are they always right no. Are they mostly right maybe. are they never right, no. so the grading provides about 50% - 60% security with a grade that is about 50% - 60% correct.
If grading were done close to 100% correct. it would take about 2 -3 minutes per card (for vintage) and the cost would be about $50 each. For $15 you get about 50% - 60% satisfaction.
All true and 100% believable.
It's probably also the reason grading companies can easily justify to themselves if large parts of the customer base finds their process to be lacking in quality or consistency. As long as it fits into their margins of acceptable errors then they're doing just fine.
Are the people against sheet cutting only upset when they are slabbed and in the same population report as factory cut? If there was a 100% guaranteed way to distinguish them, and the population reports were separate, would people stop caring? Are there purists who would go as far to say they want sheets to remain as sheets always?
Why did the manufacturers sell these to the public? Are there multiple intentions and do they have any stake in whether collectors have an opinion either way?
Apply my first set of questions to raw cards as well. Basically if there was no way to pass one off as the other then would everything be cool?
Obviously these are fictional ideas because we understand reality that it does affect populations and prices regardless of whether you care or not. I would love a set of HOF cards cut from sheets in my PC or the factory cuts and I would gladly state any known factory cut cards I own.
Maybe it's irritating also to chase a card and find it after years and it's a sheet cut when you only want factory cut.
Can an argument be made about hand cut cards from boxes or magazines where the card should be left the way the factory produced it?
Nobody needs to reply if they don't want. More or less putting some food for thought out. Since there is no right or wrong answer then I think it's a fruitless discussion that reaps only the benefit of thinking deeper about it and possibly creating new or changing existing perspectives which could, in-turn, give rise to less sheet cut card cutters and owners trying to pass them off as pulled from a pack when it wasn't.
And this is why your term reputable is in question.
That 74 opc Munson is not an authentic card.
It’s a 2023 opc Munson. Printed in 1974 but finally cut and put into circulation in 2023. How a grader could not know this by the lack of a rough cut and that perfect centering demonstrates how poor this “reputable” company is.
Here are real 1974 opc Munson’s.
They were cut by rotary discs that women hand fed at the opc factory in Ontario and placed into wax packs.
These are not 2023 Munson’s that were cut in 2023.
These are real OPC Munson’s.
That PSA 9 Munson should be labeled a 1974 Martin Sports Munson and not OPC.
Like I said before PSA is no different then Beckett now.
Don’t even get me started on PSA-DNA. That part of the company and the word reputable are not in unison. They pass everything and anything under the sun.
Have a question. If these are NM or better, what will PSA grade diamond cut cards now ?
This could be a 7(MC) years ago.
Is it the same today ?
this right here is why I am no longer impressed with "10's" Conditional rarity means nothing to me. at all. give me true rarity all day.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
The sheets were not available to the public directly from the manufacturer.
It was that way from the beginning.
The very first card ever to go into a PSA holder was cut from a sheet. A T-206 Honus Wagner.
That card should have been labeled a 1985 cut T-206 Honus Wagner if they really wanted to be a “reputable “ company.
yes sir. I am a Clemens collector. give me a raw 98 red crusade or a 96 mirror gold over a "10" 84 fleer update ALL DAY.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Piedmont made that Honus Wagner, but never cut it, put it into packs, and distributed it.
It was cut by someone else many years later. I feel dirty even thinking about owning it, which is why I’ve never purchased from Martin Sports nor would I.
If someone else enjoys something like that then enjoy!
Lum looks over graded. Doesn't resemble a 10 to me. But whatever.
Wow a card that obviously slanted bordered really doesn't make sense as a 10. I mean in the olden days "Mint" meant perfect. Only 60/40 tolerance on centering and that was IT! Everything else had to be flawless or else it cannot count as "Mint".
Dimes: 54S, 53P, 50P, 49S, 45D+S, 44S, 43D, 41S, 40D+S, 39D+S, 38D+S, 37D+S, 36S, 35D+S, all 16-34's
Quarters: 52S, 47S, 46S, 40S, 39S, 38S, 37D+S, 36D+S, 35D, 34D, 32D+S
74 Topps: 37,38,46,47,48,138,151,193,210,214,223,241,256,264,268,277,289,316,435,552,570,577,592,602,610,654,655
1997 Finest silver: 115, 135, 139, 145, 310
1995 Ultra Gold Medallion Sets: Golden Prospects, HR Kings, On-Base Leaders, Power Plus, RBI Kings, Rising Stars
On one hand there should be some variation within a 10 Grade so that's good, but I've seen 8s and 9s on here that were recently graded that I'd rather have than this.
Per recent reports they're using AI to determine centering, but not tilt?!?