@Cougar1978 said:
That’s weird of you - what makes u think I would buy from u anyway. Not looking for any at this time. What I pay based on current market conditions, confidential with the seller.
He's not looking for any because of current market conditions but they are a super investment buy. And is unwilling to quote his premium to melt because it's confidential despite the prices being widely available everywhere because they are bullion.
It's very difficult for me to stay within forum rules right now.
Just calling his bluff. He argued that they were NOT bullion and called anyone who thought they were "tirekickers", a favorite term of derision of his.
Translation from Cougarese: I buy these at melt and mark them up to $1200 to sell them.
Do you have a Barbra Bush in UNC with OGP for $1200? I need one for my set.
@Cougar1978 said:
Dream on - No Way - they are fantastic numismatic coins which I have retailed many of - slabbed 69 & 70. At one show setup retailed 4 of them, getting good money. I don’t give away low pop coins at melt. Spouse coins are a super investment buy. Calling them worthless - tirekicker BS lol.
And how much OVER spot do you pay for them when you buy them?
Why does that matter? Coug clearly pointed out he sold at a profit, so honestly, it does not matter to the conversation here......... Bone to pick?
I think the concern is that, as he describes his business practices, he is the type of coin dealer that many would seek to avoid.
For example, claiming that this series is a great investment with lots of numismatic value while at the same time, in other threads, stating that working at only a 10% spread is for suckers. The suspicion, although not confirmed, is that he is buying these "great numismatic items" at below melt from unsuspecting members of the public and then flipping for $1200 (his normal 20% spread on all items, bullion or not).
Is that about it @jmlanzaf , or did I forget something?
@Cougar1978 said:
Dream on - No Way - they are fantastic numismatic coins which I have retailed many of - slabbed 69 & 70. At one show setup retailed 4 of them, getting good money. I don’t give away low pop coins at melt. Spouse coins are a super investment buy. Calling them worthless - tirekicker BS lol.
And how much OVER spot do you pay for them when you buy them?
Why does that matter? Coug clearly pointed out he sold at a profit, so honestly, it does not matter to the conversation here......... Bone to pick?
Because it proves his lie that these are not bullion coins. And he called anyone who bought them at bullion prices a "tirekicker" when, in fact, that makes HIM a tirekicker.
Bone to pick? Yes. He could have made a case that these were more than bullion without name calling.
@Cougar1978 said:
Dream on - No Way - they are fantastic numismatic coins which I have retailed many of - slabbed 69 & 70. At one show setup retailed 4 of them, getting good money. I don’t give away low pop coins at melt. Spouse coins are a super investment buy. Calling them worthless - tirekicker BS lol.
And how much OVER spot do you pay for them when you buy them?
Why does that matter? Coug clearly pointed out he sold at a profit, so honestly, it does not matter to the conversation here......... Bone to pick?
I think the concern is that, as he describes his business practices, he is the type of coin dealer that many would seek to avoid.
For example, claiming that this series is a great investment with lots of numismatic value while at the same time, in other threads, stating that working at only a 10% spread is for suckers. The suspicion, although not confirmed, is that he is buying these "great numismatic items" at below melt from unsuspecting members of the public and then flipping for $1200 (his normal 20% spread on all items, bullion or not).
Is that about it @jmlanzaf , or did I forget something?
@Cougar1978 said:
That’s weird of you - what makes u think I would buy from u anyway. Not looking for any at this time. What I pay based on current market conditions, confidential with the seller.
He's not looking for any because of current market conditions but they are a super investment buy. And is unwilling to quote his premium to melt because it's confidential despite the prices being widely available everywhere because they are bullion.
It's very difficult for me to stay within forum rules right now.
Just calling his bluff. He argued that they were NOT bullion and called anyone who thought they were "tirekickers", a favorite term of derision of his.
Translation from Cougarese: I buy these at melt and mark them up to $1200 to sell them.
Do you have a Barbra Bush in UNC with OGP for $1200? I need one for my set.
I'll ignore the likely sarcasm...
Sorry. No. I don't benerally stock gold. The margins are too low and the risk too high. I buy the Spouses as bullion and wholesale them as bullion.
@Cougar1978 said:
That’s weird of you - what makes u think I would buy from u anyway. Not looking for any at this time. What I pay based on current market conditions, confidential with the seller.
He's not looking for any because of current market conditions but they are a super investment buy. And is unwilling to quote his premium to melt because it's confidential despite the prices being widely available everywhere because they are bullion.
It's very difficult for me to stay within forum rules right now.
Just calling his bluff. He argued that they were NOT bullion and called anyone who thought they were "tirekickers", a favorite term of derision of his.
Translation from Cougarese: I buy these at melt and mark them up to $1200 to sell them.
Do you have a Barbra Bush in UNC with OGP for $1200? I need one for my set.
I'll ignore the likely sarcasm...
Sorry. No. I don't benerally stock gold. The margins are too low and the risk too high. I buy the Spouses as bullion and wholesale them as bullion.
No sarcasm at all. I might be the only one on the planet that is building the first spouses in UNC. Almost done and then I’m starting on the proofs. If you come across a Barbra bush that is copper spot free for $1,200 I’d be a buyer.
Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, which is low for most modern coins.
The common ones with higher mintages are considered by many to be bullion, especially the 2007's, but there are around a dozen of the later dated ones that are getting scarce, that started with mintages below 2,000.
@Goldminers said:
Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, which is low for most modern coins.
The common ones with higher mintages are considered by many to be bullion, especially the 2007's, but there are around a dozen of the later dated ones that are getting scarce, that started with mintages below 2,000.
>
The lower mintage ones are low mintage, compared to most circulating coinage, more recent (post 1936 US) circulating denomination proofs, and most other US modern gold NCLT.
This coinage isn't actually scarce versus more than a very low proportion of other coinage in a similar price range in "high" or similar quality. (An example is much of world gold NCLT.) This is the relevant comparison, not all coinage generically because First Spouse isn't considered an alternative to hardly any other coinage for most buyers. it's primarily competing against AGE and world bullion gold, some US and world NCLT, and low premium world gold and US classic gold.
I don't know how many collect the series in UNC, proof or both, but it's too expensive and not remotely interesting enough to attract any meaningful hobbyist collector base. Somewhere in the vicinity of $50K for UNC or proof and $100K for both (at least) at current spot.
To most hobbyist collectors, there are far more interesting coins for the same or similar cost, with some also have better financial potential.
@Goldminers said: Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, ...
@WCC said: That's a label rarity, not an actual one.
Sure, first strike PCGS 70's are label rarities. The relatively few collectors of these coins often prefer to collect them with that label, and there are multiple bidders for certain first spouse coins with FS70 labels above spot every week at Great Collections.
It takes more than 5 pct on the dollar make it in the coin biz. Many inventory types can vary 5-100 (pct), keystone (a very common retail markup). 10pct - That doesn’t even cover fixed oh cost.
Amazed the number of people in here think 5c on $ makes it. I doubt they even understand basic accounting lol.
We don’t do this for free and what we price it / it’s called free enterprise. Beyond that take your slanted output and shove it lol. I would say we laugh all the way to the bank but in a bad year with a NI loss this time for a run for Beer, Crown Royal.
@Goldminers said:
Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, which is low for most modern coins.
The common ones with higher mintages are considered by many to be bullion, especially the 2007's, but there are around a dozen of the later dated ones that are getting scarce, that started with mintages below 2,000.
I have noticed even with the slight rise in prices on these, there are far fewer listed for auction than a year or two ago. Same for the $5 commems which are my favorite bullion stackers and my sole completed set in MS and PR.
@jmlanzaf see two posts above - confirmed! When he pays below melt for numismatic items it's because no one can make it in the business on 5%, not even all of the other businesses or dealers that make do with smaller premiums than that on bullion. Then, when the price is marked up 20% or more (which is apparently standard because we don't understand basic accounting) it's because it's free enterprise! I feel stupid, I thought it was slimy business practices but I guess you learn something every day.
I don’t see them being melted. These aren’t circ or low end MS60 Unc junk. Too nice for BV giveaway. Work your angle - Especially if sblabbed 69 &70. At slightly over $1000 raw players will mark up cost plus 25 pct (std markup factor for that range) and retail them. If your confused on their MV consult CF. Jimmy picked up a few cheap / raw got them slabbed marked up accordingly sold most at one show. They are popular among women and can bring strong retail $. In this market you have to run for daylight, work your angle, and turn on the jets to the green of the end zone.
@lermish said:I feel stupid, I thought it was business I guess you learn something every day.
No -We aren’t in it on some crummy 5c on the dollar lol. That doesn’t even pay Opex cost! Yay for free enterprise! You haven’t taken any acctg courses have you? Can you even work up an income statement? No.
@lermish said:I feel stupid, I thought it was business I guess you learn something every day.
No -We aren’t in it on some crummy 5c on the dollar lol. That doesn’t even pay Opex cost! Yay for free enterprise!
You misquoted me and left out a very key word.
And just because someone willing buys something or sells something does not mean "free enterprise" makes it ok. There are differences between legal and ethical. The conversation ends here because it's apparent that we have different understandings of those words.
@lermish said: The conversation ends here because it's apparent that we have different understandings of those words.
Then stop trashing me out over sleazy quote baseless bs. You don’t like me expressing the facts then too bad.
It's not baseless, just a disagreement. You stated that your business model is exactly what I said it is. You think that your business model epitomizes free enterprise and is ethical. I do not think that.
@lermish said: The conversation ends here because it's apparent that we have different opinions.
Then stop trashing me out over sleazy quote baseless bs. You don’t like me expressing the facts then too bad.
Not an accountant. Yes your business model epitomizes free enterprise.
Lol it’s very ethical / free enterprise not ethical? lol / besides you don’t know anything about the biz. Take y trash accusations and shove it. We don’t do RCI for free. Do auction houses complain when stuff goes 3x MV? Get outta here.
Who are u tell me what my biz sb? Nobody - Frankly I think you have no grasp of basic acctg or even how to work an income statement.
@lermish said: The conversation ends here because it's apparent that we have different understandings of those words.
Then stop trashing me out over sleazy quote baseless bs. You don’t like me expressing the facts then too bad.
It's not baseless, just a disagreement. You stated that your business model is exactly what I said it is. You think that your business model epitomizes free enterprise and is ethical.
Lol it’s very ethical / besides you don’t know anything about the biz. Take y bs accusations and shove it.
Life is all about liquidity and the spouse coins certainly are not liquid. I typically stay away from them for that reason. Now If I can get them far enough back of spot I'd take em but usually not worth the effort. RGDS!
@lermish said: @jmlanzaf see two posts above - confirmed! When he pays below melt for numismatic items it's because no one can make it in the business on 5%, not even all of the other businesses or dealers that make do with smaller premiums than that on bullion. Then, when the price is marked up 20% or more (which is apparently standard because we don't understand basic accounting) it's because it's free enterprise! I feel stupid, I thought it was slimy business practices but I guess you learn something every day.
Exactly as I thought. I don't really care what he does, but it is silly to post, as he did, that these are not bullion when he won't pay more than melt for them.
I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would either buy or sell from him. I just find it odd that he doesn't realize the message he's sending to buyers and sellers.
@lermish said: @jmlanzaf > I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would either buy or sell from him.
Oh I see u know it all lol. Boring.
It’s evident you have no concept of even basic acctg or even how work up an income statement let alone grasp the acctg equation. Do you even know what Opex is? Maybe u should get on utube. Perhaps a doomsday show. Sorry but 5c on the $ doesn’t even cover Opex in the RC biz. You flunked coming out the gate.
@lermish said: @jmlanzaf > I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would either buy or sell from him.
Oh I see u know it all lol. Boring.
It’s evident you have no concept of even basic acctg or even how work up an income statement let alone grasp the acctg equation. Do you even know what Opex is? Maybe u should get on utube. Perhaps a doomsday show. Sorry but 5c on the $ doesn’t even cover Opex in the RC biz. You flunked coming out the gate.
Yet almost every bullion dealer in the country works on 5% or less. So, empirically, your statement is hogwash. Bid/ask spread on $20s and AGEs is under $100. It works because of the high liquidity.
Local guy did $100,000 gold deal and made $1500. That's 1.5%. It's also $1500 for making a phone call and a 50 minute drive.
You might need to go back to school. An income statement is the same whether your margin is 30%, 5% or negative. So I don't really know what that has to do with anything.
@lermish said: @jmlanzaf > I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would either buy or sell from him.
Oh I see u know it all lol. Boring.
It’s evident you have no concept of even basic acctg or even how work up an income statement let alone grasp the acctg equation. Do you even know what Opex is? Maybe u should get on utube. Perhaps a doomsday show. Sorry but 5c on the $ doesn’t even cover Opex in the RC biz. You flunked coming out the gate.
Upstate has been in business for decades and does tens of millions annually. I guess they need better accountants...
Gee, I hate to butt in on such a lovely interchange......So, let me diverge for a moment. Which is the key to the Spouse series out of curiosity. I remember that the Betty Ford in Unc. seemed to pip for the "key" spot??? At the time I bought one as it looked low mintage if quite ugly....Does anybody truly care?
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars said:
Gee, I hate to butt in on such a lovely interchange......So, let me diverge for a moment. Which is the key to the Spouse series out of curiosity. I remember that the Betty Ford in Unc. seemed to pip for the "key" spot??? At the time I bought one as it looked low mintage if quite ugly....Does anybody truly care?
Still the lowest mintage. But the real question is whether anyone is melting these. If so, it's really much harder to know which ones would be the most challenging to find.
The more I see the threads with the "dealer" that shall not be named (but loves the word tirekicker), the happier I get that I've never patronized him. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a sucker? Let's see... a one, a two, a three. A three.
@NorthStar said:
Should we add $5 dollar gold commemoratives to the discussion? I was on a quest to assemble an uncirculated set of coins. However, the rise in gold prices put that project on hold. It was my bullion play. And admittingly, a speculative endeavor based on mintages.
I know it's not a very popular set but I'm also assembling one in MS70 and it's challenging and fun for sure! The best part is even on GC, I've scored MS70's right around melt...
@7Jaguars said:
Gee, I hate to butt in on such a lovely interchange......So, let me diverge for a moment. Which is the key to the Spouse series out of curiosity. I remember that the Betty Ford in Unc. seemed to pip for the "key" spot??? At the time I bought one as it looked low mintage if quite ugly....Does anybody truly care?
IMO there are many kinds of keys: low mintage keys, low population keys in First Strike PCGS 70's, higher priced keys, and keys hard to find due to demand.
As far as mintages there really is no standout winner in this series. There are 12 low mintages in MS from 1,824 to 1,993. Does it really matter if one is a few less than another? There are 9 First Strike 70's with pops currently less than 100 which can be more expensive to obtain, unless you are lucky.
There are 7 spouse coins that PCGS put into their Top 100 modern coin set and none of them were the very low mintages. Why some of those were chosen is a big mystery to me.
As far as demand, the Liberty series of 4 MS and 4 proofs with classic coin obverses, is a popular subset. All of the spouses are .9999 gold so they can be melted and refined easily compared to American eagles at 91.67% Au, 3% Ag, 5.33% Cu. Have many been melted? No way to really know.
People collect what they want to collect. Sometimes making money on a collection is not their primary goal. Dealers on the other hand...apparently have a different agenda
@PerryHall said:
Are pre-1965 common-date junk silver coins still being melted? I remember in the past when these junk silver coins and even modern commemorative silver dollars were being melted.
Modern Commems, yes on the common ones. 90%, not as much as people think because a lot of the 90 stackers want to keep it in that form for barter purposes should a theoretical SHTF scenario come to pass.
@PerryHall said:
Are pre-1965 common-date junk silver coins still being melted? I remember in the past when these junk silver coins and even modern commemorative silver dollars were being melted.
Modern Commems, yes on the common ones. 90%, not as much as people think because a lot of the 90 stackers want to keep it in that form for barter purposes should a theoretical SHTF scenario come to pass.
I think melting is always a last resort for any of these. Since they do trade as commodities themselves, that is more efficient than needing to refine the 90% to .925 or .999
@Cougar1978 said:
That’s weird of you - what makes u think I would buy from u anyway. Not looking for any at this time. What I pay based on current market conditions, confidential with the seller.
He's not looking for any because of current market conditions but they are a super investment buy. And is unwilling to quote his premium to melt because it's confidential despite the prices being widely available everywhere because they are bullion.
It's very difficult for me to stay within forum rules right now.
Just calling his bluff. He argued that they were NOT bullion and called anyone who thought they were "tirekickers", a favorite term of derision of his.
Translation from Cougarese: I buy these at melt and mark them up to $1200 to sell them.
Do you have a Barbra Bush in UNC with OGP for $1200? I need one for my set.
I'll ignore the likely sarcasm...
Sorry. No. I don't benerally stock gold. The margins are too low and the risk too high. I buy the Spouses as bullion and wholesale them as bullion.
No sarcasm at all. I might be the only one on the planet that is building the first spouses in UNC. Almost done and then I’m starting on the proofs. If you come across a Barbra bush that is copper spot free for $1,200 I’d be a buyer.
I put out an APB out for one of those, let you know if I find one.
@Cougar1978 said:
****It takes more than 5 pct on the dollar make it in the coin biz. ****Many inventory types can vary 5-100 (pct), keystone (a very common retail markup). 10pct - That doesn’t even cover fixed oh cost.
Amazed the number of people in here think 5c on $ makes it. I doubt they even understand basic accounting lol.
We don’t do this for free and what we price it / it’s called free enterprise. Beyond that take your slanted output and shove it lol. I would say we laugh all the way to the bank but in a bad year with a NI loss this time for a run for Beer, Crown Royal.
It appears that some can make it on 5%. Perhaps you could share your Income and Expenses, your PL statement, and your balance sheet, and the forum can put its collective heads together and create a new business plan. We hate to see you floundering about and not living up to your business potential.
Interesting - It appears that upstate can but how many million do they have invested? They seem make it with Quick turnover, lots volume of bullion buyers. Millions in annual sales I bet. Would A bullion big downtick would kill them? That low spread would not even pay eBay fees but then the Bay not in their biz model. They seem like a big bullion powerhouse - will see if can get bullion deals from them. May increase my bullion investment position. Wonder What what their Mexican 50 Pesos look like. Beat up most likely. Any nice BU. Would like to go thru some their Mexican coins but doubt any make 63 or 64. Curious if anything slab worthy in all that (low pop material). That’s what am looking for not a slug fest smash mouth low margin thing like the bullion biz. See their phone - will give them a call see if for real / have anything for me. Mine some nice low pop slab worthy? Do they set up at shows? 1.8 pct over melt on their 20 Pesos / will call them.
@Cougar1978 said:
Interesting - It appears that upstate can but how many million do they have invested? They seem make it with Quick turnover, lots volume of bullion buyers. Millions in annual sales I bet. Would A bullion big downtick would kill them? That low spread would not even pay eBay fees but then the Bay not in their biz model. They seem like a big bullion powerhouse - will see if can get bullion deals from them. May increase my bullion investment position. Wonder What what their Mexican 50 Pesos look like. Beat up most likely. Any nice BU. Would like to go thru some their Mexican coins but doubt any make 63 or 64. Curious if anything slab worthy in all that (low pop material). That’s what am looking for not a slug fest smash mouth low margin thing like the bullion biz. See their phone - will give them a call see if for real / have anything for me. Mine some nice low pop slab worthy? Do they set up at shows? 1.8 pct over melt on their 20 Pesos / will call them.
Please let us know the results of your phone call. I'm guessing the raw 20 and 50 peso gold coins are either restrikes or scuffed-up earlier dates and anything decent has already been cherrypicked and sent in to be slabbed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
@Cougar1978 said:
Interesting - It appears that upstate can but how many million do they have invested? They seem make it with Quick turnover, lots volume of bullion buyers. Millions in annual sales I bet. Would A bullion big downtick would kill them? That low spread would not even pay eBay fees but then the Bay not in their biz model. They seem like a big bullion powerhouse - will see if can get bullion deals from them. May increase my bullion investment position. Wonder What what their Mexican 50 Pesos look like. Beat up most likely. Any nice BU. Would like to go thru some their Mexican coins but doubt any make 63 or 64. Curious if anything slab worthy in all that (low pop material). That’s what am looking for not a slug fest smash mouth low margin thing like the bullion biz. See their phone - will give them a call see if for real / have anything for me. Mine some nice low pop slab worthy? Do they set up at shows? 1.8 pct over melt on their 20 Pesos / will call them.
Assuming you speak as you type, they may well need a translator. Good luck!
I would write off the gold Spouses as being bullion forever if they had never gotten hot in the market by now.
But they did get hot for about a year, year and a half, around 2010-2011, with several issues trading at 2x to 2.5x melt at that time.
Things tending to be cyclical I'd not ignore them.
Comments
Do you have a Barbra Bush in UNC with OGP for $1200? I need one for my set.
I think the concern is that, as he describes his business practices, he is the type of coin dealer that many would seek to avoid.
For example, claiming that this series is a great investment with lots of numismatic value while at the same time, in other threads, stating that working at only a 10% spread is for suckers. The suspicion, although not confirmed, is that he is buying these "great numismatic items" at below melt from unsuspecting members of the public and then flipping for $1200 (his normal 20% spread on all items, bullion or not).
Is that about it @jmlanzaf , or did I forget something?
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Because it proves his lie that these are not bullion coins. And he called anyone who bought them at bullion prices a "tirekicker" when, in fact, that makes HIM a tirekicker.
Bone to pick? Yes. He could have made a case that these were more than bullion without name calling.
Said better than I could.
I'll ignore the likely sarcasm...
Sorry. No. I don't benerally stock gold. The margins are too low and the risk too high. I buy the Spouses as bullion and wholesale them as bullion.
No sarcasm at all. I might be the only one on the planet that is building the first spouses in UNC. Almost done and then I’m starting on the proofs. If you come across a Barbra bush that is copper spot free for $1,200 I’d be a buyer.
Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, which is low for most modern coins.
The common ones with higher mintages are considered by many to be bullion, especially the 2007's, but there are around a dozen of the later dated ones that are getting scarce, that started with mintages below 2,000.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
That's a label rarity, not an actual one.
>
The lower mintage ones are low mintage, compared to most circulating coinage, more recent (post 1936 US) circulating denomination proofs, and most other US modern gold NCLT.
This coinage isn't actually scarce versus more than a very low proportion of other coinage in a similar price range in "high" or similar quality. (An example is much of world gold NCLT.) This is the relevant comparison, not all coinage generically because First Spouse isn't considered an alternative to hardly any other coinage for most buyers. it's primarily competing against AGE and world bullion gold, some US and world NCLT, and low premium world gold and US classic gold.
I don't know how many collect the series in UNC, proof or both, but it's too expensive and not remotely interesting enough to attract any meaningful hobbyist collector base. Somewhere in the vicinity of $50K for UNC or proof and $100K for both (at least) at current spot.
To most hobbyist collectors, there are far more interesting coins for the same or similar cost, with some also have better financial potential.
@Goldminers said: Many of these are very difficult to find for sale for less than $1,300 in PCGS First Strike 70. About 25 of them have PCGS FS 70 populations less than 150, ...
Sure, first strike PCGS 70's are label rarities. The relatively few collectors of these coins often prefer to collect them with that label, and there are multiple bidders for certain first spouse coins with FS70 labels above spot every week at Great Collections.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
It takes more than 5 pct on the dollar make it in the coin biz. Many inventory types can vary 5-100 (pct), keystone (a very common retail markup). 10pct - That doesn’t even cover fixed oh cost.
Amazed the number of people in here think 5c on $ makes it. I doubt they even understand basic accounting lol.
We don’t do this for free and what we price it / it’s called free enterprise. Beyond that take your slanted output and shove it lol. I would say we laugh all the way to the bank but in a bad year with a NI loss this time for a run for Beer, Crown Royal.
I have noticed even with the slight rise in prices on these, there are far fewer listed for auction than a year or two ago. Same for the $5 commems which are my favorite bullion stackers and my sole completed set in MS and PR.
@jmlanzaf see two posts above - confirmed! When he pays below melt for numismatic items it's because no one can make it in the business on 5%, not even all of the other businesses or dealers that make do with smaller premiums than that on bullion. Then, when the price is marked up 20% or more (which is apparently standard because we don't understand basic accounting) it's because it's free enterprise! I feel stupid, I thought it was slimy business practices but I guess you learn something every day.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
I don’t see them being melted. These aren’t circ or low end MS60 Unc junk. Too nice for BV giveaway. Work your angle - Especially if sblabbed 69 &70. At slightly over $1000 raw players will mark up cost plus 25 pct (std markup factor for that range) and retail them. If your confused on their MV consult CF. Jimmy picked up a few cheap / raw got them slabbed marked up accordingly sold most at one show. They are popular among women and can bring strong retail $. In this market you have to run for daylight, work your angle, and turn on the jets to the green of the end zone.
No -We aren’t in it on some crummy 5c on the dollar lol. That doesn’t even pay Opex cost! Yay for free enterprise! You haven’t taken any acctg courses have you? Can you even work up an income statement? No.
Everybody turn on your jets, baby. End zone!!!!
You misquoted me and left out a very key word.
And just because someone willing buys something or sells something does not mean "free enterprise" makes it ok. There are differences between legal and ethical. The conversation ends here because it's apparent that we have different understandings of those words.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Then stop trashing me out over sleazy quote baseless bs. You don’t like me expressing the facts then too bad. Shall I bring out a tissue…..
It's not baseless, just a disagreement. You stated that your business model is exactly what I said it is. You think that your business model epitomizes free enterprise and is ethical. I do not think that.
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Lol it’s very ethical / free enterprise not ethical? lol / besides you don’t know anything about the biz. Take y trash accusations and shove it. We don’t do RCI for free. Do auction houses complain when stuff goes 3x MV? Get outta here.
Who are u tell me what my biz sb? Nobody - Frankly I think you have no grasp of basic acctg or even how to work an income statement.
🙄
Chopmarked Trade Dollar Registry Set --- US & World Gold Showcase --- World Chopmark Showcase
Life is all about liquidity and the spouse coins certainly are not liquid. I typically stay away from them for that reason. Now If I can get them far enough back of spot I'd take em but usually not worth the effort. RGDS!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
Exactly as I thought. I don't really care what he does, but it is silly to post, as he did, that these are not bullion when he won't pay more than melt for them.
I'm pretty sure no one on this forum would either buy or sell from him. I just find it odd that he doesn't realize the message he's sending to buyers and sellers.
I'm waiting for a Vaultbox first lady with a CAC bean.
Oh I see u know it all lol. Boring.
It’s evident you have no concept of even basic acctg or even how work up an income statement let alone grasp the acctg equation. Do you even know what Opex is? Maybe u should get on utube. Perhaps a doomsday show. Sorry but 5c on the $ doesn’t even cover Opex in the RC biz. You flunked coming out the gate.
My luck w probably get ripped on VB.
I want a Jack n Box Jumbo Jack with 2 tacos, plenty their hot sauce plus a beer.
Sir, this is a Wendy’s.
Oh am in in big trouble then - don’t have the money. Was there a week ago ordered the 4 for $4 they said they no longer doing that.
Yet almost every bullion dealer in the country works on 5% or less. So, empirically, your statement is hogwash. Bid/ask spread on $20s and AGEs is under $100. It works because of the high liquidity.
Local guy did $100,000 gold deal and made $1500. That's 1.5%. It's also $1500 for making a phone call and a 50 minute drive.
You might need to go back to school. An income statement is the same whether your margin is 30%, 5% or negative. So I don't really know what that has to do with anything.
Upstate has been in business for decades and does tens of millions annually. I guess they need better accountants...
Gee, I hate to butt in on such a lovely interchange......So, let me diverge for a moment. Which is the key to the Spouse series out of curiosity. I remember that the Betty Ford in Unc. seemed to pip for the "key" spot??? At the time I bought one as it looked low mintage if quite ugly....Does anybody truly care?
Well, just Love coins, period.
https://www.moderncoinmart.com/blog/first-spouse-gold-mintage-chart
Still the lowest mintage. But the real question is whether anyone is melting these. If so, it's really much harder to know which ones would be the most challenging to find.
The more I see the threads with the "dealer" that shall not be named (but loves the word tirekicker), the happier I get that I've never patronized him. How many licks does it take to get to the center of a sucker? Let's see... a one, a two, a three. A three.
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I know it's not a very popular set but I'm also assembling one in MS70 and it's challenging and fun for sure! The best part is even on GC, I've scored MS70's right around melt...
IMO there are many kinds of keys: low mintage keys, low population keys in First Strike PCGS 70's, higher priced keys, and keys hard to find due to demand.
As far as mintages there really is no standout winner in this series. There are 12 low mintages in MS from 1,824 to 1,993. Does it really matter if one is a few less than another? There are 9 First Strike 70's with pops currently less than 100 which can be more expensive to obtain, unless you are lucky.
There are 7 spouse coins that PCGS put into their Top 100 modern coin set and none of them were the very low mintages. Why some of those were chosen is a big mystery to me.
As far as demand, the Liberty series of 4 MS and 4 proofs with classic coin obverses, is a popular subset. All of the spouses are .9999 gold so they can be melted and refined easily compared to American eagles at 91.67% Au, 3% Ag, 5.33% Cu. Have many been melted? No way to really know.
People collect what they want to collect. Sometimes making money on a collection is not their primary goal. Dealers on the other hand...apparently have a different agenda
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Modern Commems, yes on the common ones. 90%, not as much as people think because a lot of the 90 stackers want to keep it in that form for barter purposes should a theoretical SHTF scenario come to pass.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I think melting is always a last resort for any of these. Since they do trade as commodities themselves, that is more efficient than needing to refine the 90% to .925 or .999
I put out an APB out for one of those, let you know if I find one.
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It appears that some can make it on 5%. Perhaps you could share your Income and Expenses, your PL statement, and your balance sheet, and the forum can put its collective heads together and create a new business plan. We hate to see you floundering about and not living up to your business potential.
Interesting - It appears that upstate can but how many million do they have invested? They seem make it with Quick turnover, lots volume of bullion buyers. Millions in annual sales I bet. Would A bullion big downtick would kill them? That low spread would not even pay eBay fees but then the Bay not in their biz model. They seem like a big bullion powerhouse - will see if can get bullion deals from them. May increase my bullion investment position. Wonder What what their Mexican 50 Pesos look like. Beat up most likely. Any nice BU. Would like to go thru some their Mexican coins but doubt any make 63 or 64. Curious if anything slab worthy in all that (low pop material). That’s what am looking for not a slug fest smash mouth low margin thing like the bullion biz. See their phone - will give them a call see if for real / have anything for me. Mine some nice low pop slab worthy? Do they set up at shows? 1.8 pct over melt on their 20 Pesos / will call them.
Please let us know the results of your phone call. I'm guessing the raw 20 and 50 peso gold coins are either restrikes or scuffed-up earlier dates and anything decent has already been cherrypicked and sent in to be slabbed.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Assuming you speak as you type, they may well need a translator. Good luck!
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I would write off the gold Spouses as being bullion forever if they had never gotten hot in the market by now.
But they did get hot for about a year, year and a half, around 2010-2011, with several issues trading at 2x to 2.5x melt at that time.
Things tending to be cyclical I'd not ignore them.