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1861 gold dollar….guess the error
johnny010
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Seems I’ve discovered an error on my 1861.
Photos posted to see if you can find/ guess the error.
2
Comments
Nice clashing.
Even though it’s pretty common for the date, it’s still cool and adds character.
Nice guess, but that’s not it. There’s a pretty large error on this coin.
I assume it is on the rev because that is the larger of the 2 pics. All I can see definitely is Longacre shelf doubling on the leaves, which unfortunately isn't an error. So I guess that I must be missing it
180 degrees rotated reverse
I didn't know that they came with a medallic coin turn reverse, learn something new every day, thank you Mr Weinberg
Here’s what I’m seeing
BERTY from Liberty. Wish I could get better photos but in hand it’s very clear.
There is also slight die rotation, which I see one in twenty has this issue.
maybe 5-10%
how about heavy die clash reverse similar to this one?
Heavily-clashed dies, but not a 180-degree rotated die.
Agree. I think Fred meant a 360-degree rotation. Very neat coin and a very cool first year of the Civil War date.
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Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think the first poster nailed this one.......
In hindsight I should have. I “assumed” @Ownerofawheatiehorde was referencing the standard “usual” clash marks and not the pronounced floating clash of the word LIBERTY.
Fair point.
Yes he did although I’d love to know if he noticed the letters. Either way, agree it’s all part of clashing.
You got it in one. I have no idea what the OP is talking about.
See above.
I would suggest some clashes to be more desirable and valuable than others. Had this just been the standard clash lines known on these coins I wouldn’t be talking about it. To also have the letters BERTY visible is a different kind of clash which I feel was worth specifically calling out.
He correctly identified the error, and you said that wasn't it. It was.
If you wish to discuss the magnitude of the error that's another matter, but he did correctly identify the error.
When I first opened this thread yesterday, thought I saw something odd above the bow, but I was struggling with those pics. I meant to ask you for close ups, and then I got distracted.
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To be clear I’ve already agreed with this point once. Thanks for pointing it out again. I still agree he got it right even if it’s unlikely he saw the only part of the coin worth discussing.
These nit pick conversations do get tiring.
Very possible considering that the photos in the OP were out of focus moonshots.
I sort of feel the thread was a bit of a set-up. But, no harm done. It is a nice clash despite things having gotten off track.
I admit, I did not see the “BERTY” in the first set of photos, but even still I identified the clashing, which was the error.
Here is the original set of photos from the OP that I rotated and flipped so that “BERTY” should be readable.
See anything?
In the future, try to crop your photos as it makes the images higher quality.
These two pictures are the same photo, one is cropped and the other is not.
This is a common misconception with these. Most third party graders actually just put them in the holder slightly crooked. The bust on the front looks like it is supposed to line up like they put it, but if you look at the text left and right of the bust, they almost always mount it slightly crooked, which makes it look like a slight rotated reverse.
You are absolutely correct. Davewesen’s obverse is illustrated correctly.
Clashes aren’t errors
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
Of course, they're errors unless you think the mint intentionally clashed their dies. They don't usually add any value to the coin unless they are extreme and are on a coin that doesn't normally have die clashes. Die clashes on gold dollars are very common so there is no added value in the case of the OP's coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
They’re a normal byproduct of the minting process. Die cracks and cuds aren’t intentional either, but they also aren’t errors. Even when they do add some value (like a flying eagle cent die clashed with a $20 die), they’ll be in a variety holder, not a mint error holder. In general, die-sided issues are varieties or die states, not mint errors. Errors are unique to individual coins and occur during the planchet production or striking process.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
They can be considered varieties if they’re dramatic or unusual enough. But if not, they won’t be considered as either.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en
A mint error can also be a variety. The 1955 DDO is both an error and a variety.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
An error can also be a variety and vice versa. One doesn't preclude the other. When the mint made the 1955 DDO, it was an unintentional mistake which means it was an error on the part of the mint. We'll have to disagree on this one.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
As I recall, @FredWeinberg didn't deal in the 55DDO because he did not consider it to be an "error".
That aligns with my understanding of the distinction between "error" and "variety". Young collectors grow up in the hobby (as did I) hearing about the great 55DDO error, but that does not make it correct.
Varieties by definition are die pairings or states that are considered important enough to be catalogued/named/distinguished. If every die state were a variety, then every coin would have its own variety, since at a microscopic level there is slight die erosion with every strike.
Gobrecht's Engraved Mature Head Large Cent Model
https://www.instagram.com/rexrarities/?hl=en