Anyone noticing quality issues?
I'm a big fan of PCGS' grading standard and their consistency throughout the years, but I've had 3, what I'd consider big issues, over the past month.
Two proof coins have been delivered back to me with fingerprints on the obverse of the coin.
True Views of my most recently graded batch are inaccurate to the in-hand look of the coin because brightness is to high.
Coins showed delivered but somehow were showing as a pickup, I had to call in and they were able to provide a tracking number.
Not trying to complain. More interested if this is across the board issues right now or if I'm the exception?
Let me know your thoughts.
Comments
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@coinguy96 said:
Anyone noticing quality issues?All the time!
Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )
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Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.
Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Sounds a bit like complaining to me.
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I did not at first but since around March it seems to be a real problem, I know they hired a lot of new people, however with their standards and prices, they need to tighten the ship
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@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
Didn't photograph these coins before sending them off. I can assure you the coins were not shipped off to PCGS this way, but I do understand at that point it's my word vs theirs. With that said, it doesn't take long for a fingerprint to cause damage to the surface of the coin because of the oils... And you never know from what point the grader touched the coin to when the coin was finally shipped. Could've been 1-2 weeks. That's more than enough time.
As for the delivery. It was showing on PCGS website that the coins were delivered without uploading a tracking number. When I clicked on the order it showed the status was "Available for pickup" when i never selected that as an option. After calling into PCGS they confirmed the coins were shipped and emailed me the tracking number. So something was glitching out on their website.
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@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
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Join the club. My observations also. Way too many missed varieties that they have to correct later at meet the expert table at shows. My confidence is declining.
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Don’t the images go from photographer and then to image post processing? I could see how images can vary based on who processes the image, and which image is ultimately chosen.
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@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Don't the graders wear gloves when handling coins?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".3 -
My pleasure, it seems to have helped you to rise to the occasion as well.
I only wish my contribution had contributed as much intellectually as your content did. 
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I'm guessing that a lot of the fingerprints on your coins aren't coming from the graders who properly hold the coins by their edges out of habit. It's more likely the fingerprints are coming from the slabbing area where the coins are assembled into the slabs.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire4 -
@PerryHall said:
I'm guessing that a lot of the fingerprints on your coins aren't coming from the graders who properly hold the coins by their edges out of habit. It's more likely the fingerprints are coming from the slabbing area where the coins are assembled into the slabs.I wage that you are absolutely correct
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Contact customer service. Explain the issue In a very calm manner. Then wait. Then wait. Then wait some more. If by then you don't hear from them you'll have your answer.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Don't the graders wear gloves when handling coins?
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faq3 -
@PerryHall said:
I'm guessing that a lot of the fingerprints on your coins aren't coming from the graders who properly hold the coins by their edges out of habit. It's more likely the fingerprints are coming from the slabbing area where the coins are assembled into the slabs.Yeah that makes a lot of sense. Could be the True View department as well.
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@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Don't the graders wear gloves when handling coins?They don't and honestly I'm glad they don't. Much higher risk of the coin slipping out of your fingers and being banged up on a table, rather have a fingerprint at that point.
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@MetroD said:
@BLUEJAYWAY said:
Don't the graders wear gloves when handling coins?
Source: https://www.pcgs.com/faqYeah right, I worked in a clean lab for my whole career and we used nitrile gloves. We handled rare samples and alot of toxic chemicals, and needed to perform precise and careful procedures with both. We needed 'tactile sensations' in order to manipulate all of the above, stay safe, preserve the integrity of the samples, and operate the precise procedures. And wearing these gloves, we still had that ability. So bah I say as it makes no sense.
The truth is, for speed grading, one must quickly move the coin around when one has 5 to 15 seconds to do the job. Using gloves, is likely to slow down the process by a few seconds and cost them money. Only solution is to charge more to grade...............
I too had a rare Conder token come back with a fingerprint with another TPG. I questioned the same issue on their boards and got the same negs back that the OP is getting here for simply posting the concern. Seriously folks? Graders/Slabbers handling 1000s of coins every day with their big fleshy paws? Things gonna happen sometimes.
Hence, IMO, TPG's should use protective gloves to preserve the integrity of the coins submitted to them. HST, the fewer times a coin is processed into a slab, the lower the chance of something happening. Caveat emptor.
One example of ultra-thin form fitting nitrile gloves below, many on the market and certainly something would be suitable for grading coins in the raw.
Best, SH
My online coin store - https://desertmoonnm.com/6 -
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
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@PerryHall said:
I'm guessing that a lot of the fingerprints on your coins aren't coming from the graders who properly hold the coins by their edges out of habit. It's more likely the fingerprints are coming from the slabbing area where the coins are assembled into the slabs.Exactly my thought, and fear when sending in red copper!
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@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
No, you just dismissed @FlyingAl personal experience.
Sorry, the converse logic doesn’t work either. Not having seen something (a cent turning to gold) does not mean that it either could or could not happen.
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I would agree with others who mentioned that if in fact the coins were fingerprinted while at PCGS it likely did not happen by the graders but far more likely by those who check in the coins and remove them from the flips or by someone in the sealing room. I remember many years back this issue was also brought up here on the forums and David Hall (Homerunhall) said he would look into it.
I know I would be absolutely furious if I sent in PL / DMPL dollars to any service and any were returned with fingerprints in the fields.
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Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
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@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
No, you just dismissed @FlyingAl personal experience.
Sorry, the converse logic doesn’t work either. Not having seen something (a cent turning to gold) does not mean that it either could or could not happen.
No. I didn't. I offered my experience. If I dismissed FlyingAl, then he also dismissed me. Or we both just offered our opinions. No more, no less. You're the one that seems to have a problem.
As for the converse logic, that was my point. I said I had never seen it. YOU interpreted that to mean that I was saying that it could not have happened. I never said that. You inferred it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
No, you just dismissed @FlyingAl personal experience.
Sorry, the converse logic doesn’t work either. Not having seen something (a cent turning to gold) does not mean that it either could or could not happen.
No. I didn't. I offered my experience. If I dismissed FlyingAl, then he also dismissed me. Or we both just offered our opinions. No more, no less. You're the one that seems to have a problem.
As for the converse logic, that was my point. I said I had never seen it. YOU interpreted that to mean that I was saying that it could not have happened. I never said that. You inferred it.
I don’t think he dismissed me. Just hasn’t had the same experiences.
Now does he believe me? Maybe not. Doesn’t really matter to me. We’ll never know how those prints got there.
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I’ve purchased a coin that had no fingerprints and a few months later a fingerprint appeared. And it was in a PCGS slab, so a latent fingerprint can appear with time. Those fingerprints look like they were on there for a while and could have appeared due to temperature or just age. It could have also been touched with an oily hand and just appeared the next day. I really can’t say either way.
Ever since a fingerprint appeared on that coin I started wearing gloves and putting majority of the raw coins in acetone when I get them.
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20th Century Type Set
Virtual DANSCO 7070
Slabbed IHC set - Missing the Anacs Slabbed coins0 -
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
No, you just dismissed @FlyingAl personal experience.
Sorry, the converse logic doesn’t work either. Not having seen something (a cent turning to gold) does not mean that it either could or could not happen.
No. I didn't. I offered my experience. If I dismissed FlyingAl, then he also dismissed me. Or we both just offered our opinions. No more, no less. You're the one that seems to have a problem.
As for the converse logic, that was my point. I said I had never seen it. YOU interpreted that to mean that I was saying that it could not have happened. I never said that. You inferred it.
I don’t think he dismissed me. Just hasn’t had the same experiences.
Now does he believe me? Maybe not. Doesn’t really matter to me. We’ll never know how those prints got there.
Line ‘em up against the wall and fingerprint the lot of them. 🤬
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@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Project Numismatics said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@FlyingAl said:
@jmlanzaf said:
Those fingerprints are not new to my eye. Do you have pictures before you sent them in? Those look like toned over prints.Wouldn't "delivered " vs "pickup" be a delivery service problem not a PCGS problem?
I've seen prints that look like that develop on Proofs from that era within three days.
I haven't. Not "thick" like that. You can get them to print but the print is flat. I'm looking at the quarter. The toning seems thick and that looks like spray closer to the head.
“I haven’t seen it so it can’t happen” ?
I didn't say that.
I've also never seen a cent turn to gold, so it probably could happen.
It takes time for toning to gain thickness. Now, of course, it could be an optical illusion and the print is "thin". But it seemed worth asking the question.
I apologize for my attempt to discuss this.
No, you just dismissed @FlyingAl personal experience.
Sorry, the converse logic doesn’t work either. Not having seen something (a cent turning to gold) does not mean that it either could or could not happen.
No. I didn't. I offered my experience. If I dismissed FlyingAl, then he also dismissed me. Or we both just offered our opinions. No more, no less. You're the one that seems to have a problem.
As for the converse logic, that was my point. I said I had never seen it. YOU interpreted that to mean that I was saying that it could not have happened. I never said that. You inferred it.
I don’t think he dismissed me. Just hasn’t had the same experiences.
Now does he believe me? Maybe not. Doesn’t really matter to me. We’ll never know how those prints got there.
It really depends on how scaly they are as to whether I "believe" they are fresh or not. It really has nothing to do with my believing or disbelieving anyone. You can only accelerate the process so much. The nickel looks fresh to me. The quarter doesn't. But, as I indicated earlier, that could simply be the photo But, as you say, we'll never know.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Lack of glove use during the many stages of coin handling cuts down on that expense as well. Handling that many coins barehanded per day must transfer a lot of hand contaminates from coin to coin,albeit on the edge. How often do graders and all other handlers up and down the line cleanse their hands?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".0
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