EVERYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN PSA GRADING PLEASE READ!!!

Vincecarder · January 20, 2003 9:52AM

Now most you people out there know I collect modern issues, mainly rare low serial numbered cards. This years SPX basketball is another issue I'm collecting. The Jersey/Auto's I've been seeing do have chipping problems and surface problems near the autograph (foil scratches easily) Now when I saw two PSA 10 SPX Spectrum RC's (#ed to 25, very rare) I was curious to see what grades this seller/dealer got because the serial numbers appear to be from the same PSA batch. Now what I found shocked me. Here's a part of this person's submission and it keeps going but I stopped looking....

90167237
1997 ULTRA TRACY McGRADY PLATINUM MEDALLION Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167238
1994 SCORE RK. TRADED ALEX RODRIGUEZ REDEMPTION CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167239
1994 SCORE RK. TRADED ALEX RODRIGUEZ REDEMPTION CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167240
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167241
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
PSA 10 Gem Mint

90167242
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167243
2002 SPx DAJUAN WAGNER SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167244
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167245
2002 SPx NENE HILARIO SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
PSA 10 Gem Mint

90167246
2002 SPx KAREEM RUSH SIGNED JERSEY-SPECTRUM
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167247
2002 SPx YAO MING SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167248
2002 SPx YAO MING SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167249
2002 SPx YAO MING SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167250
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
PSA 10

90167251
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167252
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167253
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167254
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
PSA 10 Gem Mint

90167255
2002 SPx AMARE STOUDEMIRE SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167256
2002 SPx DAJUAN WAGNER SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167257
2002 SPx DAJUAN WAGNER SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167258
2002 SPx JAY WILLIAMS SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167259
2002 SPx JAY WILLIAMS SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167260
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167261
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167262
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY
PSA 10 Gem Mint

90167263
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

90167264
2002 SPx DREW GOODEN SIGNED JERSEY
CARD Not Holdered, Evidence of Trimming

Now If I were PSA and I started seeing trimmed card after trimmed card, I'd think to myself...geez....maybe all of these cards have been doctored. These spectrums are currently on ebay and are fetching a large amount of cash
PSA 10 Amare Stoudemire 02 SPx Spectrum 05/25
PSA 10 Nene Hilario 02 SPx Spectrum 04/25

The Amare is already over $3000.....you think it would be that high if the bidders knew it was submitted with a large amount of cards that came back evidence of trimming?!?!?! NO!!!!! This isn't even the whole submission....if you keep on punching in the serial numbers you will see even more cards coming back evidence of trimming (shaq rookies, tiger woods cards.....)

I think that these 10's probably have some sort of trimming on them too...they just probably slipped by the graders. How could so many cards in one submission come back like this? Simple, this dealer is a guy who alters his cards.

I don't know what else to say, I'm not very happy with this at all, especially since it's an issue I collect.

Allen · January 20, 2003 9:56AM

He may have doctored the cards but I can't imagine trying to trim some of those cards, even with mechanized photo trimmer.
Email that guy and ask him what is up with that.

Quiksilver77 · January 20, 2003 10:02AM

i doubt he'd get a response if he emailed the seller...thats terrible what he's doing, youre totally right, you have to figure that he trimmed those PSA 10s too and they slipped by the graders...sick people out there...

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:14AM

KNICKS644 [8:07 PM]: hi
KNICKS644 [8:08 PM]: i looked up some of your cards graded by psa,why do you trim your cards?
TOPHNLORN [8:08 PM]: what are you talking about!
KNICKS644 [8:08 PM]: Collectors Universe Forums - EVERYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN PSA GRADING PLEASE READ!!!
KNICKS644 [8:10 PM]: busted
TOPHNLORN [8:11 PM]: pretty interesting reading material
too bad i bought all these cards after they were graded

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:24AM

KNICKS644 [8:12 PM]: where did you buy them
TOPHNLORN [8:15 PM]: why would i tell you my source
TOPHNLORN [8:15 PM]: or sources
KNICKS644 [8:16 PM]: because he is a scam artist and it is not right
TOPHNLORN [8:19 PM]: i have been to several major card shows where psa does on site grading
and have seen them say cards are trimmed
then later that same show hear about the card being resubmitted and getting graded
i think psa says some cards are trimmed to try to keep market strong on particular cards
TOPHNLORN [8:20 PM]: hey
how do i go about looking up other seriel numbers?
KNICKS644 [8:20 PM]: um i will ask brb
TOPHNLORN [8:21 PM]: what?

TOPHNLORN [8:21 PM]: what does that mean?
TOPHNLORN [8:21 PM]: who is brb
KNICKS644 [8:21 PM]: brb=be right back

how do you look them up?

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:32AM

TOPHNLORN [8:22 PM]: also
what you are trying to do is not cool
you collect these cards and are trying to soften the market
KNICKS644 [8:23 PM]: how i am i doing that?
TOPHNLORN [8:24 PM]: whatever
you know exactly what you are trying to accomplish

TOPHNLORN [8:24 PM]: so how do i look up seriel #'s
KNICKS644 [8:25 PM]: i will know soon,and when people find out about trimming cards from psa these cards will not be taking in half the $ you are getting now
TOPHNLORN [8:26 PM]: well
you have your opinion

KNICKS644 [8:27 PM]: not a opinion its a fact
TOPHNLORN [8:27 PM]: jelousy is a funny thing!
thanks for insight
KNICKS644 [8:28 PM]: jelousy?so you are saying you know the cards you got are trim?
TOPHNLORN [8:29 PM]: not at all
have no idea
but for you to assume they are then try to hurt the cards value is BS
and it is all out of jelousy because you want them but don't want to pay market value
KNICKS644 [8:30 PM]: no i know what you are doing and you know what you are doing
TOPHNLORN [8:30 PM]: if they were trimmed like u assume
then i would expect psa to not grade them
like the other cards you refer to

anyone got anything to say?

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:38AM

i dont think i would buy a psa graded card,after looking at this.

zardoz51 · January 20, 2003 10:39AM

Go to the PSA website

Click on cert verification (It's in the box on the left )

Put in the serial # and hit enter

Quiksilver77 · January 20, 2003 10:40AM

SkiVermont3: hey
SkiVermont3: i'm very interested in some of your cards on ebay
TOPHNLORN: hello
TOPHNLORN: ok

SkiVermont3: so tell me...
SkiVermont3: how exactly do you trim the cards, ya know, to fool the PSA graders?
TOPHNLORN:

i have never submitted a card
i buy these cards already graded
SkiVermont3: well then your sources are trimming their cards
TOPHNLORN: i just got done talkin to some guy who wrote a message that u are reffering to
he is simply trying to soften the value of the cards because he wants them!
SkiVermont3: lol right
SkiVermont3: it just do happens that the batch of cards that you own part of, over 50 high end premium cards came back ungraded because there was 'evidence of trimming'
SkiVermont3: just so*
TOPHNLORN: ok
thanks

SkiVermont3: ok, keep on trimmin'
SkiVermont3: and keep on ripping people off on ebay

lol

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:44AM

this is why one day cards will not sell for anything,because of people like him.the whole grading cards is a scam anyway

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 10:49AM

he put me on block and i think he just reported me to aol,lol

can we so anything about this?this guy has sold over 1000 items that were psa graded.

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 11:53AM

anyway we can tell PSA about this?

Vincecarder · January 20, 2003 11:58AM

It's funny how one guy was trying to say.."oh it might just be the SPX cards...PSA might not have the experience with them yet and think they are trimmed out the packs...." Garbage!!! How do Arod RC's, Shaq RC's, Tiger Woods etc...all come back trimmed too! This guy is a big time scammer and I think those cards that got the 10 grades might have just slipped through. I've never seen a submission have that many cards come back trimmed...just too many!!!

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 12:10PM

this is the biggest scam artist i ever seen!cant we tell ebay or somthing?

knicks644 · January 20, 2003 8:14PM

keep this ttt so people know about this

dpeters28 · January 20, 2003 8:28PM

Just a theory:

I think the "source" could be a PSA Grading expert. He knows when this "persons" cards are coming in and he grades them for him for a small fee extra. They all come back 10s and this guy makes a killing of of ebay. Just my 2 cents.

Vincecarder · January 20, 2003 11:14PM

Just to clarify something with everyone, when a card is not graded because it says "Evidence of Trimming" that doesn't mean the card wasn't graded because it was a factory miscut or it was too small. I graded quite a few SPX's over the years and had quite a few come back "Mini-Sized" which means the card was cut too small but was not trimmed. This persons batch of cards clearly shows that a majority of the cards he submitted had some sort of alterations to them ie trimming. That's the thing that scares me, maybe a few of these were done real good and slipped through at the grading table. PSA caught most of them (I'm glad they did) but letting some of these slip through hurts us collectors who are pulling these cards from packs or buying them and getting lower grades. We are left wondering, man why can't we get a PSA 10 that will sell for $3000? Would the only way be to start trimming cards like this jack@$$? No, most collectors are honest about their cards, that's what grading is for, to get rid of the question "Is this card a 9, 10, trimmed?" We leave it up to the professionals.

knicks644 · January 21, 2003 6:30AM

everyone needs to see this ttt!

knicks644 · January 21, 2003 6:51AM

TOPHNLORN [3:46 PM]: emai was just sent your way
you might want to read it
KNICKS644 [3:47 PM]: I WOOD LIKE TO see a copy of a email that i sent to one of your biders
TOPHNLORN [3:47 PM]: you know exactly what they say
just go to your sent mail
you sent them with vincecarder@hotmail.com
KNICKS644 [3:48 PM]: vinecarder is the one that told me about your auctions
TOPHNLORN [3:48 PM]: you are vince carder
KNICKS644 [3:48 PM]: no i am not

{this is his email he just sent}

hello
i am writing to you to let you know i have spoke with my attorney about the slander and defamation of character you are attempting on ebay and the collectors universe website.he has asked me to write you to inform you that if you continue to email my potential bidders(and i know you have because i have had 4 people send me copies of the emails you have sent) we will proceed with a defamation of character lawsuit against you.
I can understand your concern about trimmed cards.but what you don't understand is that i have never had a card graded.i purchase all these cards after they have been graded.i also don't want to purchase altered cards and want to feel confident in what i sell is legit.this is why i buy PSA and BGS graded cards!!they are the premiere graders in the industry with the highest standards,but for you to email my bidders and pawn yourself off as a grading expert is completely misleading and fraudulant!!
will be in touch

knicks644 · January 21, 2003 6:53AM

TOPHNLORN [3:50 PM]: ok
then i will send the email to him also
both of you are in this together
all the pieces can be out together
you copied our IM session on the collectors universe website under vince carder
either way
i am just doing what i have been told
i will send him the same email
good bye

Vincecarder · January 21, 2003 6:59AM

I spoke to the seller and a few of the bidders. All the bidders I spoke to thanked me about the info I passed to them. I've had other ebayers help me out on other issues before and this is no different. It's one collector helping another. He didn't give me any real responses to why the cards came back trimmed so don't really care for this guy. He's just a fraud and if he wants to hide behind lawyers with all that BS I don't have a problem with it.

knicks644 · February 21, 2003 9:08AM

ttt

knicks644 · February 21, 2003 9:17AM

dickersonpsa10@aol.com gave me the scan of the amare before he traded it to the seller i cant get the pic to come up on here if you want to see it give me your email

EVERYONE WHO IS INTERESTED IN PSA GRADING PLEASE READ!!!

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