Advice On A New Fugio Cent Acquisition
hbarbee
Posts: 217 ✭✭✭✭
I would appreciate some advice on a Fugio Cent that I just added to my collection. I purchased it from a very well respected EAC dealer in Austin at what I think was a reasonable price. It is Variety 11-X and Rarity 3.
I am not a big fan of non-PCGS holders. As a matter of fact, this is the only coin in my collection that is not PCGS except for the lower value pieces that are not worth grading.
In hand this coin’s strike, luster and eye appeal are well worth the MS65BN grade in my opinion. The lamination is frankly in a perfect position as it does not obscure devices and actually appears as if it is a shadow from the sun dial.
My questions are as follows as I would like to get it in PCGS and get rid of the Mint Error designation. The vast majority of Fugios have some degree of planchet flaws and many of them ruin the visual appeal of the coin regardless of the grade, but I do not think this one does.
1) Which of the grading options would you recommend as a first pass? I was thinking of the “crossover to current grade” method so the MS65BN is not lost and I know it would never grade higher.
2) If it would cross to current grade, would PCGS remove the mint error designation if asked nicely? Even though lamination is considered a mint error, I do not consider it appropriate for this coin.
Comments
Many graded Fugios have the dreaded “planchet flaw” or “lamination” label. This particular lamination is completely natural and looked that way the day it was struck!
With that said, I believe PCGS has graded planchet flaw coins as straight grade for series like Fugios more in line with forgiveness towards the natural planchets.
This is a pretty big lamination/planchet flaw and it may be looked at as a detriment for the grade level, as you probably know, Fugios are pricy at this grade level.
With that said, I can see the coin straight grading today, but I will say, maybe not at the 65 level. So there is maybe a conundrum there, but a 63 straight grade may be just as good as a 65 lamination holder.
Adding that it is a beautiful original example and about as nice of a strike and eye appealing surface as these come in this level. Often times I find myself more attracted to examples leaning to brown than mint red from the Bank of NY hoard. Many of the redder ones seem to not have the same eye appeal as the smooth brown ones!
I love it and don't mind the planchet flaw at all!
I would call PCGS, but I think they would remove the mint error designation. Personally, I would "crossover to current grade" - I would not gamble it.
I am a newer collector (started April 2020), and I primarily focus on U.S. Half Cents and Type Coins. Early copper is my favorite.
Planchet flaws are common and won't hold it back. I've been looking for an AU or better for 5 years but haven't bought one because I want a full strike and no planchet flaws and they are nearly impossible to find.
That's a nice coin. 🎊
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What a treat to see this coin.
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It is in a major brand holder with a very high grade. Leave it as is. Accept the fact that is not a PCGS holder.
I think it looks fine in its current slab. I've never been a slave to any particular brand of slab.
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Many Fugios do have planchet flaws and laminations, but that's not the case for coins graded MS65 (or higher) at PCGS. They tend to be pretty picky at that level.
You can certainly try that, but I think it's very, very unlikely to cross as a 65.
No.
IMO it is possible this coin could be straight graded at PCGS, but they would net for the flaw and I think you'd be looking at a grade of 63 BN.
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@hbarbee sent me a PM asking why the lam was called a mint error and why the coin was graded so high. Rather than simply PM back I decided to post for all to see.
First, I do not agree with 65 grade. The lam, while technically a mint error, simply detracts too much from the overall eye appeal of the coin for me to call it a 65. Plus, the rev has a few too many planchet ticks that likewise detract. Furthermore, it's an 11-X, one of the most common varieties, a Bank of New York hoard piece, and they are quite available in 63 to 65 without the noted detractions and are generally better struck.
I net grade this piece a 62, but still would not be interested as I find the lam too detracting and not a mint error that I prize. I'd rather have an unblemished AU55 to 63 piece. Now, if it was an R5 or higher variety, I'd be a more lenient and I might even be interested, but it's not.
I'm not sure what PCGS will do. I suspect they will net grade it, perhaps a bit higher than I, but I strongly doubt it will get a 65. You can try for a crossover at a min 65 grade, but I think it's gonna come back as is.
Thanks for your input. I only brought up this older discussion because I saw your recent posts that showed you were certainly knowledgeable on the Fugios.
I believe it is a nice piece for an EAC type set. I only paid an AU58 price for it. Without the lamination it may have straight graded pretty close to a 65. I suppose NGC may be more lenient that PCGS. It would be interesting to know what difference I would pay a dealer at a show to trade for a straight 65 in a PCGS holder.
Not being very knowlegable on grading this series I was just questioning why I had seen so many examples out there with high straight grades and so many obvious plancet flaws.
I think you did ok by paying far less than what a Gem Unc Fugio would normally bring. Another factor in pricing a Fugio is how full is the strike. I pass on any high end Fugio that is missing any of the legend.
At 2500 to 3200, I'd still rather have a nice AU with minimal defects. In 65, common variety Four Cinquefoils (8-B, 8-X, 11-X, etc.) run about 10K at auction. You can figure a dealer will add like 20% or so. I cannot say what a dealer would pay for your coin.
Many Fugios have a weak B and final S. I'm not sure I've ever seen an 11-X with a full BUSINESS. I've seen it on 12-X, 8-B, and 8-X. Obvs 3, 4, 6, 16, and 19 are particularly strong, but they don't come unc.