PCGS Submission Extreme Delay Unexplained -- Update 9/18
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I could use some help from you guys here. I have had over 50 orders with PCGS this year. Almost all of them smooth and acceptable turnaround times. However, I am still waiting on two submissions from March. Thursday will be the 120th weekday since the oldest one was received by PCGS.
Neither order is complicated or odd. The oldest is a simple restoration of Peace and Morgan dollars with no attributions or special services. The second is a restoration of Lincolns and Buffalo Nickels. Again, nothing odd or requiring special attention.
As you will see below, I have had several other comparable Restoration submissions all come back within about 3 months.
In June, I emailed customer service about this order and got this response on June 15:
I looked into your order that was submitted under the Restoration Regular service level. As a reminder, the Restoration service can add an additional 4-6 weeks to the estimated turnaround time. However, as your order is currently on business day 69 of the estimated 40 business-day turnaround time, I have submitted your order to our expedited list. Make note that even once added to the expedited list order can take some time to complete. I thank you for your patience with the longer-than-expected wait time as we work to complete your order.
On July 3 I followed up and got the following response:
My apologies for the delay on your order, since we last spoke, it was added to our urgent list. Our urgent list is being worked on accordingly to what is submitted first so it may still take some time to show movement on your order, I continue to thank you for your patience while we work to complete this order.
I went on a vacation so in a separate email I requested a shipping hold on my orders, and a week later in mid-July I requested the hold to be removed and was told it was and received several orders right after. I followed up on Jul 26 and got this reply:
The order was placed on a ship hold per request. Please reply to this email if you would like the ship hold removed.
I did so but a shipping hold should not have stopped any grading progress. This was the reply on July 27:
The ship hold has been removed. I do apologize for the delay with order [xyz] submission [xyz]. I informed my Manager that this order was overdue, and I'm submitting an Urgent request for the order.
Still no movement. On Aug 3 I sent an email Steve Feltner, director of Numismatic Ed and Grading Team Leader but no response. I don't know that he can help or would jump in here. He is the only person I happened to have a direct contact for.
On Aug 9 I concluded that they must have lost my coins. There is no other explanation for it to still be in GRADING status after being on the Urgent list since Jun 15. I email them and ask how to make a claim for my lost order.
Reply on Aug 11:
In addition to a canned response about how busy they are I get this:
Your order is safe and secure in our facility. Your order [xyz] is on our Urgent/Expedite Order List. I will keep a close eye on your order and ensure it moves quickly.
I respond that I know they are busy but the fulfilled over 40 orders received after this one without this kind of delay and I ask for an explanation and point out that it has been on the urgent list for 6 weeks.
Then I get this response on Aug 14:
I understand your concerns due to the delays in your orders. Please be assured that your orders are safe at our facility.
I have let my manager know that the orders are not moving quickly enough despite the expedite being placed. She let me know she will contact our operations team regarding your orders.
As of this post, the coins are still in GRADING status and haven't moved. I'm at the end of my patience with this. None of this make sense. How is it that they process and return other orders received after Jun 15 but yet these coins on the "Urgent list" haven't moved?
If anyone has any ideas on what to do from here or if I am being unreasonable I would like some advice. For proof, here are the two orders in purgatory:
And here are the other successful orders from earlier in the year, some with some pleasing turnaround times.
Comments
Call them.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I had a similar issue, but not with restoration, if that makes a difference. I actually called them and got the order "expedited". The same person followed up with an email. Two weeks later I asked about it again and the next day it started moving.
Calling them is not so easy. They call queue for the day fills up fast but I have done it before. I believe the phone system encourages you to email them and I don't see why calling vs emailing would be a different result. After all, the order has been expedited since Jun 15. The queue is full for today, I will try tomorrow unless anyone else has a better idea.
Quite the saga. Looks like the only thing left would be a coin chaperone. Good luck. Peace Roy
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Call and speak to a real person! The phone lines open at 10 a.m. on the East Coast. I have the number ready to go and when the phone says 10 I hit dial. I have never been more than 4th in line and waited less than 10 minutes. Ask for a confirming email of your conversation. In your case I might even ask to speak to the supervisor. The squeaky wheel gets oiled first so squeak loudly if you have to. Best of luck.
A rare tropical storm hit Southern California recently which I'm sure didn't help.
I had some orders moving slowly at NGC recently and kept after them every couple days which helped.
My sister lives in Santa Ana. It wasn't that crazy.
I handed them a submission (regular service platinum vouchers) at the Central States show way back in late April and now 4 months later they are still sitting in 'encapsulation'. I tried calling a few weeks back and was told my order would be 'expedited' and that means they should move to the next step almost immediately.........yeah, right. I then sent an email a week or two later and was told "they are being worked on and thank you for your patience" I tried calling again twice this week and did not receive a call back either time. I have been submitting coins to PCGS since the summer of 1986 an have never had such a long wait nor such awful customer service. I have however received about 5 or 6 emails in the last few weeks asking me to renew my platinum membership, so at least they are very proficient at asking people to renew memberships.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
So if you don’t pay the $250 renewal fee, your coins don’t get returned?
The NGC/PMG conglomerate started charging for submissions as soon as logged in after they got bought out. You'd think that as these companies have gotten larger with better profits they would grow their company to meet customer needs and expectations.
I have to say though, all of my other orders were processed in times that I mostly find acceptable. Would I like everything faster? Of course I would. I don't think the advertised turnarounds of 20-45 days is that bad.
The problem here is that 2 of my submissions fell into some kind of black hole resulting in triple the processing time (or more).
Renewing your membership for another year has nothing to do with completing and returning a current submission that was already paid for.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Well I just tried calling PCGS at 9:03AM CT and got the recording their call queue is filled up for the day and to try again tomorrow.
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
Wow, I have a number of coins I would like to submit but none of this is instilling any confidence in the process or that my coins will ever get graded and returned.
Mark
Your experience is very disappointing. There should be a mechanism in place to speak to a live person. Competition will hopefully be beneficial to those of us who submit.
I have a 4 coin submission that is still in the Received mode after 4 weeks. It wasn’t that long ago when it went to Grading after 1-2 days.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I am NOT disputing your account.
However, I just tried the main CS number (800.447.8848). The estimated 'wait time' was over an hour, but the queue was still open for the day.
Edited to Add: Maybe there was a 'glitch' when they first opened.
I have been DM'd by PCGS staff who are forwarding this to management. We'll see what happens...
That said, I wouldn't let my experience dissuade anyone. Look at all of the orders that were processed quickly and successfully, some in only a few weeks. There's just something random and unusual that's happened to these two orders.
Incidentally, my order of 2023 Proof Peace and Morgans was processed into the the system (Received) yesterday, and this morning they are already in Grading status.
Payback maybe? Good new at any rate.
The four coins I have sitting in Received status for a month are the MS Morgan and Peace Dollars. I’m wondering if I send the proof dollars in now if they would grade before the MS dollars make it out of Received.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I'm increasingly convinced that when they receive your order they spin the "wheel of destiny" to determine when they process your order and sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't.
FYI it’s no better ATS. They have estimated turnaround times that are supposed to be from date delivered and it’s been routinely taking the published turnaround time to even get your package opened.
Submitted three groups at the ANA. Already in grading. Hoping they continue to move through the system
I sent in an 8 coin voucher submission. PCGS received it yesterday and the order is in its system showing it as having been "received".
Today I looked up the status of my order and see that it is still showing as "received".
I am so upset that my order has not yet moved from "received" to "grading". What the heck is taking so long!!!!!!!!
I am beside myself. if my order does not move into "grading" by tomorrow morning I will likely have to set up an appointment with an MFT to talk about this situation and "how it makes me FEEL!!!!"
I recently submitted 3 orders that were sent in the same box. Two were logged in as "Received" on July 28 (a Friday). One was logged in on July 31 (a Monday). The order types were Modern Value, Regular (crossovers), and Regular (raw grading). No variety attributions or any other additional services.
The Modern Value coins are done and I received them today.
The July 31 crossover order moved to "Grading" about 3 weeks ago.
The July 28 raw grading order is still showing as only Received.
Proof collection
I'm curious. Why do frequently send in orders with very few coins that are days or weeks apart? Doesn't that add a lot of prep time and expense?
I wonder if this is more effective than the dart board concept.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
Because that is the cost of impatience. which I suffer from. Most of the time I save up coins to submit and ship all at once but unfortunately they are all for different services or service levels so they end up being small subs. Often the $10 per-order fee and shipping is spread over several coins so it is just a few dollars per coin so it is not much. So yeah, a bit of a waste of money but I'd rather get things submitted and processed than wait a few months and save a few dollars.
Edited to add: This post must have received attention because the oldest one has now moved to "Encapsulation" status. Finally!
PCGS should have internal reporting that identifies all submissions that are 60 days (or whatever amount of days that PCGS determines to be unacceptably delayed past the estimated turnaround time), so that someone can manually pull the subs from the process and have them expedited. Should be done daily or weekly and whatever gets pulled should be the first graded the next day and walked through the process to the other stages until shipped. Restoration subs, the various service types, and other factors do add complexity to this. However, the customer should not have to call to ask to be put on an “expedite list.”
If the estimated turn-around-times are accurate , the volume of subs that reach the determined threshold shouldn’t be too many.
Ideally PCGS management would have 30/60/90 reporting (or similar) telling them the number of orders delayed by 30 days, 60 days, and 90+ days. That would be a little more actionable than simply monitoring average turn around time. Im sure they have this reporting capability; it comes down to a willingness to take action.
PCGS is a premium brand and folks generally are willing to put up with delayed service. PCGS knows this. It’s possible that CACG’s market entrance will move customer perception regarding PCGS’s “premium” marketplace position, and these delays will become less tolerated by customers. And if CACG moves enough volume away from PCGS, delayed grading will become less of an issue altogether.
>
A win win outcome
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
How many "Real" PCGS submitters will switch to CACG? Do you think it will make a difference in their submission rate?
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For collector coins I think impact will be minimal. Any loss of business might be made up for by CACG-PCGS crossovers. For bulk modern sales I think CACG will carve out a fair share. My crystal ball has a scratch in it though.
Low volume submitter here. I'll continue to patronize our hosts for all services. No interest in crossing over the roughly 1900 PCGS slabs I have.
I went back and looked at my submissions the past two years. I had one that actually took more than 7 months, another 6 months, a couple 5 months, but most take 2-3 months.
I have been assured things are expediting. I have talked to real people. I have tried squeaking, hopping up and down, raving, begging, offering to pay more, asking if I should submit a lost coin report, being super polite, and it makes no logical difference in the final result.
You will get your coins back when they are ready.
If you really want to be frustrated, try to explain the reasons that the grades you finally received after waiting a half a year to get them are wrong
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
Pay for the expedited grading tier.
Just curious........do you find this to be an acceptable business practice and a firm you'd like to do business with in the future?
Your hobby is supposed to be your therapy, not the reason you need it.
A> @Goldminers said:
I’ll just mention that if you’re offering to pay more, why don’t you submit under show grading? Grades/coins are ready in ~2 days.
Most of what I submit are dozens of mostly US medals worth $75-200 each. I submit to get them encapsulated and to get good photos because many of these are quite scarce and have low pops. Paying $35 each plus other fees is already a lot and it would be a complete waste of money to pay more for faster service. I am completely fine waiting 2-3 months. It is only the 5, 6, or 7-month outliers that can be a bit frustrating when there is no reason given, which is the point of the original thread post, I think.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
And I'm sure you are checking the status multiple times per day!
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Being clueless on my first submission, I defined a MS level higher than reality (MS70). That mistake made a 1881-S Morgan sit for 5 months in "grading status". Then when it was all done I got the grading that indicates the actual was lower than the defined. Waste of time/money on my part. Good lesson in learning the rules before submissions.
Wouldn't it have been easier to DM them first rather than start this thread?
I think he made plenty of efforts “first”.
Sorry, I don't have a rolodex of all of the contacts at PCGS. I only had the customer service email info@pcgs.com which from my post above, you can see I used extensively. That should have been enough don't you think?
And the person who DM'd me forwarded my post to the appropriate person. I don't know who that person is. Without a post explaining everything, I don't know that the PCGS-person-who-DM'd-me would have taken action had I known who they were and contacted them directly and privately.
As of this weekend though, grades have posted for one of the two submissions and the other is in QA, so it got results. If you have contact information you'd like to share for the future I would love to have it.
I think you did the right thing. You went through all the regular venues and what was needed was this thread to get the attention of the right person.
Level of service provided by a company is often a good indicator of that company’s long term viability. Given my PCGS submissions from last Fall and thus far in 2023 I would give PCGS a poor rating in terms of turnaround timeframes. It will be interesting to see if their competitors capture market share as a result.
I think the turnaround times are OK overall. After all, I can just imagine what that place is like right after a new Silver Eagle is released and tens of thousands of coins get dumped into the system. Or after they take in a bunch of submissions at a show.
The problem as I see it is when as in my case, coins fall into a "black hole" for no apparent reason while other orders fly right by. I probably wouldn't have thought anything had I not had all of the other orders to compare to.
Sounds like a real bummer of a deal. I hope you get it worked out soon. I like your approach to this whole thing. Very professional. Maybe they will see this thread and take some action. It sure seems like you have exhausted every avenue with patience.
Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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This may be irrelevant or possibly too late in this specific case, but I’ve had restorations take extremely long in the past because the spots that were originally dipped off the coins returned, and the grading company needed extra time to monitor and redip the coins appropriately over time to fully remove them. In my experience, if you rush the grading company, your grades will suffer. You’re pushing them to restore or grade coins in a “rushed” manner, and you’re probably not going to get the grader you want grading your coins. Or the coins aren’t done being restored yet.
Every time I’ve had restoration submissions with pcgs come back within 30 days, they always get screwed up.
I am curious to know if any of your coins upgraded so far?
GOOD LUCK CALLING!!! I RECOMMEND YOU CALL THE PCGS REGISTRY NUMBER. AT LEAST YOU'LL HAVE A CHANCE YOU'LL GET A CALL BACK, I NEVED DID FROM CUSTOMER SERVICE, NEVER!!!!!
So my 8 coin submission that was received on 8-23-2023 still sits in Received.
Another submission of mine was received on 9-13-2023. Yesterday that submission moved immediately to Grading.
Strange indeed.