Let's assume we all agree that these marketers are the scum of the earth, the devil's seed.
What do you propose "we" do? Who will be given the power to decide what is excessive, and who will be given the power to punish the violators, and what will that punishment be?
P.S. - We all agree that these coins are grossly overpriced and none of us would ever buy them. What's the next step?
@JBK said:
You're not paying attention. No one here is justifying anything. They are simply explaining how it works. No one here would buy that stuff. Then again, we are not the target audience.
Too many people operate on the premise that if you don't denounce something, that means you support it. It's "either/or", there is no recognition that it's possible to not be in favor of a particular thing without calling for its elimination.
Let's assume we all agree that these marketers are the scum of the earth, the devil's seed.
What do you propose "we" do? Who will be given the power to decide what is excessive, and who will be given the power to punish the violators, and what will that punishment be?
P.S. - We all agree that these coins are grossly overpriced and none of us would ever buy them. What's the next step?
Sadly, the people who are the primary prey for such sellers do not know that places like coin shops, shows, more reasonably priced online sellers and/or forums like this exist...
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
Let's assume we all agree that these marketers are the scum of the earth, the devil's seed.
What do you propose "we" do? Who will be given the power to decide what is excessive, and who will be given the power to punish the violators, and what will that punishment be?
P.S. - We all agree that these coins are grossly overpriced and none of us would ever buy them. What's the next step?
Sadly, the people who are the primary prey for such sellers do not know that places like coin shops, shows, more reasonably priced online sellers and/or forums like this exist...
That is precisely the point. The "prey" do not have the choice between the coin store or the collectables mass-marketer. They only know the sales pitch that is put in front of them. That marketing comes from the collectables companies. They are finding or really creating a market that does not exist otherwise.
Rather than "scam" which implies doing something that's illegal, perhaps a better term would be " grossly overpriced rip-off".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I can understand the frustration one feels when they perceive a "rip-off". But that's when one comes to price discovery. We all want what we want as cheaply as we can get it. I've been calling it the "Walmart" syndrome, for years. It a general attitude.
However, to me.... it's all spam and no scam.
I get that you don’t like people spending much more on these things than they could ever sell them for, but what do propose as a solution? Would you like a government regulation on the selling price of collectibles? That sounds like a really bad idea.
If they’re committing fraud, then of course they need to get a smack down. If a buyer can’t be bothered to quickly check eBay to see what these are selling for, then that’s on them.
One grocery store near me charges almost double than another grocery store on most items. They’re not scamming people, and no government action is required. People get to choose, and for whatever reason some people choose to shop there.
@JoeLewis said:
One grocery store near me charges almost double than another grocery store on most items. They’re not scamming people, and no government action is required. People get to choose, and for whatever reason some people choose to shop there.
Yes... but the grocery store isn't calling its wares treasured heirlooms that will surely grow in value. And the folks buying the groceries aren't going to try to sell them later with the expectation of that implied increase in value.
@telephoto1 said:
Apologists for this type of business model need to remember their statements here the next time they're trying to haggle the last nickel out of their local dealer, who they seem to think is a thief when he's making 10% on something...
@PapiNE said:
I have their products in the form of a full set of slabbed Walking Libertys in a nice fancy wooden holder. Two of them are F12 at best. The rest are garbage. I imagine they came from cable shopping network which have a reputation all their own. I've seen first hand over the last few years how susceptible the elderly are to pressure sales. Not a scam but ruthless.
Since the very first day I learned what the grading system was, and what various grades actually looked like, I thought it needed to be changed. Not the numbers, those are perfectly fine, but there is nothing "good" about a coin graded G06, and there is nothing "fine" about one graded F12. To me, those would better be labeled "crappy" and "almost crappy", although even if a change were made they would obviously never use those exact terms lol...
I saw a commercial a few weeks ago from some firm selling Morgans "guaranteed to be minted in between 1871 and 1921 in fine to uncirculated condition" (or a very similar wording), and I mentioned to my wife how misleading that actually is because of the huge difference between a "fine" and an "uncirculated", but to a lay person "fine" sounds, well... Fine. I'd wager that actually getting even a common date MS60 from them would probably be about as likely as winning the lottery.
@telephoto1 said:
Yes... but the grocery store isn't calling its wares treasured heirlooms that will surely grow in value
I don't see where it says that on the Bradford Exchange page for the ASE collection. But, even that phrase is not fraud. I'm not arguing with you that these guys are hyping up a product, and apparently getting people to pay more than they would elsewhere (although there is more than the ASE they're selling...slabs and box).
But every business does this. Every single ad for cologne, jeans, trucks, etc. hypes up their product selling you more than what the product actually is. This is how a free market operates. The consumers dictate the prices. Enough people are happily buying this ASE package, so the price is "market acceptable." Fraud of course is illegal, but I just don't see that here, and neither does the OP.
What do you propose be done about the Bradley Exchange ASE program?
@telephoto1 said:
Yes... but the grocery store isn't calling its wares treasured heirlooms that will surely grow in value
I don't see where it says that on the Bradford Exchange page for the ASE collection. But, even that phrase is not fraud. I'm not arguing with you that these guys are hyping up a product, and apparently getting people to pay more than they would elsewhere (although there is more than the ASE they're selling...slabs and box).
But every business does this. Every single ad for cologne, jeans, trucks, etc. hypes up their product selling you more than what the product actually is. This is how a free market operates. The consumers dictate the prices. Enough people are happily buying this ASE package, so the price is "market acceptable." Fraud of course is illegal, but I just don't see that here, and neither does the OP.
What do you propose be done about the Bradley Exchange ASE program?
You mean the cologne I bought won't get me a girl...frigging scammers!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not a big fan of the TV coin dealers or place like the Bradford Exchange but there are a lot of folks who do like dealing with them. For many people, it is not necessarily about buying something or putting together a collection and making a profit, it is about the enjoyment of the process. If an overpriced ASE shows up in the mail every couple of months and the owner admires it and puts it carefully into a nice wooden box and eagerly awaits the next shipment then good for them, that is what collecting is all about in their world. For others it is making sure that they got the absolute lowest price on the ASE before sticking in a Dansco or PCGS box and hoping it goes up in value. Not everyone has a B&M in the area or likes to hang out on coin boards. To each their own really, enjoy the hobby.
I will admit, I don't mind watching the coin shows...you can pick up some good info as often the hosts are pretty knowledgeable about what they are selling.
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
Seems to me that we could use EBay as a good guide to what is acceptable or not, because coins priced in the "unacceptable" range simply do not sell. And as I said in one of my earlier posts, raw ASEs that are not a key date (of which there are few) are going from about $34 to about $40, at which point you start seeing PCGS and NGS slabbed MS69 graded, and those go up to $50 where you start seeing MS70s.
How often do you think a run of the mill, unslabbed uncirculated bullion ASE went for 400% of market on EBay? I wouldn't go so far as to say never, but I'd easily say it's extremely rare.
As for what should be done, folks like this need to be put on blast, which was the entire point of my OP. Perhaps the big boys in the market, even including the US Mint itself, could team up to create a non-profit to run ads that expose these people for the scumbags they are. The big bullion dealers, auction houses (including EBay), even PCGS and NGC, as those fake slabs might have a tendency to devalue legit ones.
They make the entire industry look bad, and it's not like the coin business has a stellar reputation with the general public to begin with, probably because of people like this. It's like someone noted earlier, if someone has had a subscription like this for some time and has a couple of dozen coins, if they take them into a local coin shop and get even a more than fair price, they're gonna feel ripped off, but they're going to blame the dealer, not the seller.
And let's keep it real, these folks are mostly preying on seniors (I mean who else has a physical newspaper subscription these days?) who think they may be making good investments for themselves, or for their kids. It reminds me of when my mom died, and we took her pearl collection to a trusted estate company. She was so proud of her pearl collection, and it took her entire life for her to get what she had, and I'm sure she died so pleased knowing her kids were going to inherit them, however comma... They were all fakes. Not a single one had a single real pearl. I'm so glad she didn't learn of that when she was alive, it would have broken her heart.
While these folks are not selling fakes (at least I'm assuming so), the premium they're charging isn't that far away.
On a side note, I'm still surprised there even are coin stores, since even a little guy like me can go on EBay and get pert near full retail price for my coins. In fact, in my city, there really aren't any (except jewelers that also buy and sell at least some coins), except for one that's "by appointment only", so I doubt they're selling $70 common date BU raw Morgans. And I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is highly populated and one of, if not the biggest growing cities in the country. I miss the old school coin shops, but I also like being able to sell my coins at retail, even though I've never sold one. Yet.
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
Seems to me that we could use EBay as a good guide to what is acceptable or not, because coins priced in the "unacceptable" range simply do not sell. And as I said in one of my earlier posts, raw ASEs that are not a key date (of which there are few) are going from about $34 to about $40, at which point you start seeing PCGS and NGS slabbed MS69 graded, and those go up to $50 where you start seeing MS70s.
That doesn't answer the question. What's the price, where anything over it is overpriced?
edited to add... If eBay prices are going to set the market and won't result in overpaying, why not require everybody to buy on eBay?
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
Seems to me that we could use EBay as a good guide to what is acceptable or not, because coins priced in the "unacceptable" range simply do not sell. And as I said in one of my earlier posts, raw ASEs that are not a key date (of which there are few) are going from about $34 to about $40, at which point you start seeing PCGS and NGS slabbed MS69 graded, and those go up to $50 where you start seeing MS70s.
That doesn't answer the question. What's the price, where anything over it is overpriced?
Kind of funny that he picked ebay. How many people here have complained that the high cost of eBay increases prices unacceptably.
@jmlanzaf said:
Kind of funny that he picked ebay.
Following the logic employed by that argument, there should be only one price for any particular thing because when there are more prices, all but one are higher which rips people off. But then, once there's only one price, there's no way to know if it could be lower, ripping everybody off.
Being in charge of figuring the correct prices for things is a tough job. It's too bad there are so many people who want to try.
@KevyKevTPA said:I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is highly populated and one of, if not the biggest growing cities in the country. I miss the old school coin shops....
Any chance of you getting out of the house and going to the Orlando FUN show this weekend?
@PapiNE said:
I have their products in the form of a full set of slabbed Walking Libertys in a nice fancy wooden holder. Two of them are F12 at best. The rest are garbage. I imagine they came from cable shopping network which have a reputation all their own. I've seen first hand over the last few years how susceptible the elderly are to pressure sales. Not a scam but ruthless.
Since the very first day I learned what the grading system was, and what various grades actually looked like, I thought it needed to be changed. Not the numbers, those are perfectly fine, but there is nothing "good" about a coin graded G06, and there is nothing "fine" about one graded F12. To me, those would better be labeled "crappy" and "almost crappy", although even if a change were made they would obviously never use those exact terms lol...
I saw a commercial a few weeks ago from some firm selling Morgans "guaranteed to be minted in between 1871 and 1921 in fine to uncirculated condition" (or a very similar wording), and I mentioned to my wife how misleading that actually is because of the huge difference between a "fine" and an "uncirculated", but to a lay person "fine" sounds, well... Fine. I'd wager that actually getting even a common date MS60 from them would probably be about as likely as winning the lottery.
As I was sitting here reading this thread, this add popped up on TV. I have seen it before, some months ago. It seems they just found another 4000 or so Morgans. The coins shown are quite nice but the kicker is using "uncirculated to fine" . This probably saves them from being prosecuted for false advertising if the coins they send out are fine or better. I'll bet fine coins are what is sent. Has anyone tried this? If so, what grade did you receive.
There is a guy on TV who offers a 20 coin roll of Morgans with a CC mint showing on one end that appears to be high grade. He states this roll could be (not is) valued at $100,000. and sells it for around $1800 for the roll. I suppose it could be valued at $100,000 if all/most coins were scarce high graded CC Morgans. I find it hard to believe that a roll with a CC mint showing would not have been opened at some time in the past. Are these rolls manufactured by the seller?
@KevyKevTPA said:I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is highly populated and one of, if not the biggest growing cities in the country. I miss the old school coin shops....
Any chance of you getting out of the house and going to the Orlando FUN show this weekend?
I would LOVE to, but with the mobility equipment I have now, it ain't happening. But I'm in the middle of getting a new high-tech wizbang gizmo wheelchair that may allow me to NEXT year. My insurance is predictably dragging their feet, but they really should just knock it off because they know they are obliged to get it for me. I'd also bet it might take weeks to months to get once the order is actually placed because every model is custom to it's owner, from functional aspects like size and leaning capability, to cosmetic stuff like the color of the wheel hubs, to "nice to haves" like head and taillights for nighttime use.
What blows my mind about these things is the price... All in, it's going to be about $25,000 (NOT a typo), which is just shy of the price of my wife's SUV. Even with insurance I'm on the hook for 10%, plus a $2,000 option that insurance won't pay for, but that I may regret not getting, as it pushes the seat up by a full foot, so I won't feel quite as childlike when speaking to someone who is standing.
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
Seems to me that we could use EBay as a good guide to what is acceptable or not, because coins priced in the "unacceptable" range simply do not sell. And as I said in one of my earlier posts, raw ASEs that are not a key date (of which there are few) are going from about $34 to about $40, at which point you start seeing PCGS and NGS slabbed MS69 graded, and those go up to $50 where you start seeing MS70s.
That doesn't answer the question. What's the price, where anything over it is overpriced?
edited to add... If eBay prices are going to set the market and won't result in overpaying, why not require everybody to buy on eBay?
Nothing new here. Fraud. greed, and hype are as old as the human race. As the ancient Romans would say, caveat emptor---let the buyer beware.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Selling coins for more than you would pay is not a scam. If it was, half of EBay would disappear.
Selling gold plated tribute coins that are even stamped “copy” but people buy them anyway; is closer to a scam.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
Comments
OK, let's reframe this "discussion".
Let's assume we all agree that these marketers are the scum of the earth, the devil's seed.
What do you propose "we" do? Who will be given the power to decide what is excessive, and who will be given the power to punish the violators, and what will that punishment be?
P.S. - We all agree that these coins are grossly overpriced and none of us would ever buy them. What's the next step?
Too many people operate on the premise that if you don't denounce something, that means you support it. It's "either/or", there is no recognition that it's possible to not be in favor of a particular thing without calling for its elimination.
Sadly, the people who are the primary prey for such sellers do not know that places like coin shops, shows, more reasonably priced online sellers and/or forums like this exist...
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
As a starting point, how about the OP disclosing what he believes the price of the coin in question is, where it goes from "acceptable" to "overpriced", along with an explanation of how he is making that determination?
That is precisely the point. The "prey" do not have the choice between the coin store or the collectables mass-marketer. They only know the sales pitch that is put in front of them. That marketing comes from the collectables companies. They are finding or really creating a market that does not exist otherwise.
"example of a firm taking advantage of people who simply don't know they can buy these coins every single day for a quarter of that price"
"And I'd bet a lot of their customers are older folk who don't know any better."
"But what they're doing is taking advantage of ignorant people and essentially price gouging"
You can't fix stupid and you can't protect stupid people from themselves.
"Perhaps my choice of the word "scam" was ill-advised"
Unless you can prove the company is not sending the coins after payment "scam" is not a correct term.
Rather than "scam" which implies doing something that's illegal, perhaps a better term would be " grossly overpriced rip-off".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I can understand the frustration one feels when they perceive a "rip-off". But that's when one comes to price discovery. We all want what we want as cheaply as we can get it. I've been calling it the "Walmart" syndrome, for years. It a general attitude.
However, to me.... it's all spam and no scam.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The mini-mart on the corner sells candy bars for over twice what Walmart charges. Is that a ripoff?
I get that you don’t like people spending much more on these things than they could ever sell them for, but what do propose as a solution? Would you like a government regulation on the selling price of collectibles? That sounds like a really bad idea.
If they’re committing fraud, then of course they need to get a smack down. If a buyer can’t be bothered to quickly check eBay to see what these are selling for, then that’s on them.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
One grocery store near me charges almost double than another grocery store on most items. They’re not scamming people, and no government action is required. People get to choose, and for whatever reason some people choose to shop there.
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
Yes... but the grocery store isn't calling its wares treasured heirlooms that will surely grow in value. And the folks buying the groceries aren't going to try to sell them later with the expectation of that implied increase in value.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
I support the dealer also.
Yes. Clearly.
And Amazon has fake free shipping which has convinced the world that shipping and packing have no costs associated with them.
Since the very first day I learned what the grading system was, and what various grades actually looked like, I thought it needed to be changed. Not the numbers, those are perfectly fine, but there is nothing "good" about a coin graded G06, and there is nothing "fine" about one graded F12. To me, those would better be labeled "crappy" and "almost crappy", although even if a change were made they would obviously never use those exact terms lol...
I saw a commercial a few weeks ago from some firm selling Morgans "guaranteed to be minted in between 1871 and 1921 in fine to uncirculated condition" (or a very similar wording), and I mentioned to my wife how misleading that actually is because of the huge difference between a "fine" and an "uncirculated", but to a lay person "fine" sounds, well... Fine. I'd wager that actually getting even a common date MS60 from them would probably be about as likely as winning the lottery.
I don't see where it says that on the Bradford Exchange page for the ASE collection. But, even that phrase is not fraud. I'm not arguing with you that these guys are hyping up a product, and apparently getting people to pay more than they would elsewhere (although there is more than the ASE they're selling...slabs and box).
But every business does this. Every single ad for cologne, jeans, trucks, etc. hypes up their product selling you more than what the product actually is. This is how a free market operates. The consumers dictate the prices. Enough people are happily buying this ASE package, so the price is "market acceptable." Fraud of course is illegal, but I just don't see that here, and neither does the OP.
What do you propose be done about the Bradley Exchange ASE program?
US and British coin collector, and creator of The Ultimate Chuck E. Cheese's and Showbiz Pizza Place Token & Ticket Guide
You mean the cologne I bought won't get me a girl...frigging scammers!!!!!!!!!!!
I am not a big fan of the TV coin dealers or place like the Bradford Exchange but there are a lot of folks who do like dealing with them. For many people, it is not necessarily about buying something or putting together a collection and making a profit, it is about the enjoyment of the process. If an overpriced ASE shows up in the mail every couple of months and the owner admires it and puts it carefully into a nice wooden box and eagerly awaits the next shipment then good for them, that is what collecting is all about in their world. For others it is making sure that they got the absolute lowest price on the ASE before sticking in a Dansco or PCGS box and hoping it goes up in value. Not everyone has a B&M in the area or likes to hang out on coin boards. To each their own really, enjoy the hobby.
I will admit, I don't mind watching the coin shows...you can pick up some good info as often the hosts are pretty knowledgeable about what they are selling.
K
Seems to me that we could use EBay as a good guide to what is acceptable or not, because coins priced in the "unacceptable" range simply do not sell. And as I said in one of my earlier posts, raw ASEs that are not a key date (of which there are few) are going from about $34 to about $40, at which point you start seeing PCGS and NGS slabbed MS69 graded, and those go up to $50 where you start seeing MS70s.
How often do you think a run of the mill, unslabbed uncirculated bullion ASE went for 400% of market on EBay? I wouldn't go so far as to say never, but I'd easily say it's extremely rare.
As for what should be done, folks like this need to be put on blast, which was the entire point of my OP. Perhaps the big boys in the market, even including the US Mint itself, could team up to create a non-profit to run ads that expose these people for the scumbags they are. The big bullion dealers, auction houses (including EBay), even PCGS and NGC, as those fake slabs might have a tendency to devalue legit ones.
They make the entire industry look bad, and it's not like the coin business has a stellar reputation with the general public to begin with, probably because of people like this. It's like someone noted earlier, if someone has had a subscription like this for some time and has a couple of dozen coins, if they take them into a local coin shop and get even a more than fair price, they're gonna feel ripped off, but they're going to blame the dealer, not the seller.
And let's keep it real, these folks are mostly preying on seniors (I mean who else has a physical newspaper subscription these days?) who think they may be making good investments for themselves, or for their kids. It reminds me of when my mom died, and we took her pearl collection to a trusted estate company. She was so proud of her pearl collection, and it took her entire life for her to get what she had, and I'm sure she died so pleased knowing her kids were going to inherit them, however comma... They were all fakes. Not a single one had a single real pearl. I'm so glad she didn't learn of that when she was alive, it would have broken her heart.
While these folks are not selling fakes (at least I'm assuming so), the premium they're charging isn't that far away.
On a side note, I'm still surprised there even are coin stores, since even a little guy like me can go on EBay and get pert near full retail price for my coins. In fact, in my city, there really aren't any (except jewelers that also buy and sell at least some coins), except for one that's "by appointment only", so I doubt they're selling $70 common date BU raw Morgans. And I live in the Tampa Bay area, which is highly populated and one of, if not the biggest growing cities in the country. I miss the old school coin shops, but I also like being able to sell my coins at retail, even though I've never sold one. Yet.
Good seeing you @ACop 🥰
Nuff already!
That doesn't answer the question. What's the price, where anything over it is overpriced?
edited to add... If eBay prices are going to set the market and won't result in overpaying, why not require everybody to buy on eBay?
Kind of funny that he picked ebay. How many people here have complained that the high cost of eBay increases prices unacceptably.
Following the logic employed by that argument, there should be only one price for any particular thing because when there are more prices, all but one are higher which rips people off. But then, once there's only one price, there's no way to know if it could be lower, ripping everybody off.
Being in charge of figuring the correct prices for things is a tough job. It's too bad there are so many people who want to try.
🤔
Any chance of you getting out of the house and going to the Orlando FUN show this weekend?
As I was sitting here reading this thread, this add popped up on TV. I have seen it before, some months ago. It seems they just found another 4000 or so Morgans. The coins shown are quite nice but the kicker is using "uncirculated to fine" . This probably saves them from being prosecuted for false advertising if the coins they send out are fine or better. I'll bet fine coins are what is sent. Has anyone tried this? If so, what grade did you receive.
There is a guy on TV who offers a 20 coin roll of Morgans with a CC mint showing on one end that appears to be high grade. He states this roll could be (not is) valued at $100,000. and sells it for around $1800 for the roll. I suppose it could be valued at $100,000 if all/most coins were scarce high graded CC Morgans. I find it hard to believe that a roll with a CC mint showing would not have been opened at some time in the past. Are these rolls manufactured by the seller?
I would LOVE to, but with the mobility equipment I have now, it ain't happening. But I'm in the middle of getting a new high-tech wizbang gizmo wheelchair that may allow me to NEXT year. My insurance is predictably dragging their feet, but they really should just knock it off because they know they are obliged to get it for me. I'd also bet it might take weeks to months to get once the order is actually placed because every model is custom to it's owner, from functional aspects like size and leaning capability, to cosmetic stuff like the color of the wheel hubs, to "nice to haves" like head and taillights for nighttime use.
What blows my mind about these things is the price... All in, it's going to be about $25,000 (NOT a typo), which is just shy of the price of my wife's SUV. Even with insurance I'm on the hook for 10%, plus a $2,000 option that insurance won't pay for, but that I may regret not getting, as it pushes the seat up by a full foot, so I won't feel quite as childlike when speaking to someone who is standing.
Thanks for asking, though!
Because we are NOT commie 🤣 no one should be dictated what one should sell nor buy!
Pinging on @HeatherBoyd
Nothing new here. Fraud. greed, and hype are as old as the human race. As the ancient Romans would say, caveat emptor---let the buyer beware.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Selling coins for more than you would pay is not a scam. If it was, half of EBay would disappear.
Selling gold plated tribute coins that are even stamped “copy” but people buy them anyway; is closer to a scam.