Large Cent Attribution Assistance Requested
Walkerguy21D
Posts: 11,379 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi All -
No, it's not low grade, but there are 10 different Newcomb varieties of the '39 Booby Head, and some of the differences are subtle. I have the Noyes reference, not Newcomb's book, and I have it pretty well narrowed down, and THINK I have it figured out....but I don't want to influence any of the sleuths.
Calling out @LanceNewmanOCC, @The_Dinosaur_Man, @lkenefic, @TheRegulator , among others - let me know what you think:
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Comments
ok. i have my guess.
It’s a Booby head, ? N-10.
Ahh, my newcomb attribution book starts at 1840...
I'ts a beautiful coin
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Hmmm... earlier die state, so that lets out N13,14,15 (I don't see any reverse die cracks). I think the distribution of the berries on the reverse (at 2 and 3 o'clock) are most consistent with N6?
Gorgeous! Tough to find nice AU pieces!!
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I'm impressed with the T on the reverse
Awesome coin,,, note all the T's share the same like quality,,, except the T starts to fail. JMO
You'll see if you look at just the T on CENT.
Booby head
Thanks for sharing
I think it's the N-5. Looking at Newcomb, only the N-5 and the N-10 have the left edge of the curl over the right edge of the 9 AND have the point of the coronet to the left of the sixth star. The berry details - such as the elongated second berry then seem to point to N-5. The position of the 19th leaf relative to the E also seems to support N-5.
Smitten with DBLCs.
in the wright book, the n10 is delisted (pcgs registry also shows this) and becomes the 5.
According to Noyes, the only difference between the N-5 and the N-10 is a reworked reverse die. Newcomb considered the reworking sufficient to justify a separate number. Apparently others beg to differ…
Smitten with DBLCs.
does grellman have a late-date or a middle-date book?
They don't look reworked to me - they look like different reverse dies.
I agree with @rays - N10.
My Grellman book covers 1840-1857. That’s all I know…
Smitten with DBLCs.
.
thanks. i couldn't recall which he did. middle or late.
per the wright book, 1992
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/614808
just posting for posterity.
But see the update also. Of course, there are later articles in Penny-Wise arguing each conclusion.
Ed. S.
(EJS)
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/614808
Referring to N10, Wright writes:
The reverse dies on N5 and N10 have different dentilation. In general, the most likely explanation for having different dentil positions is that you have two different dies. That being said, there are exceptions. Although not common, the dentils on a die may be completely recut. For example, see:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1840-o-50c-wb-8-lg-recut-obv-dentils/801034
In the case of the N10 reverse, if this was done, it was done very well (which, in part, leads me to believe it was likely not done). If the dentils were indeed recut, that would be a major change that most observers would still consider worthy of a new variety designation, rather than dismiss it as merely a "touch-up".
N5:
N10:
At least some of the differences observed on the N10 reverse either look like doubling or have no apparent relation to touching-up, which casts further doubt on the touch-up hypothesis.
Looks like N5 to me.
Lance.
There are a number of reverse die markers that can distinguish the N10 from the N5, but here is one that particularly stands out:
Thanks all!
I had narrowed it down to N10 myself, using the Noyes book, with a "?".
I bought it quite a few years ago, to add to my hoard of 1839 cents. There is evidence of smoothing on the reverse above ONE, where there was probably a gouge or some scratches. The rim issues at the bottom reverse are curious; they aren't traditional dings, as the edge of the coin here is fully intact. Not sure what happened there. And a spec of verdigris right of the date. But I'm into it for what's now listed as VF money, so I'm comfortable with that.
i haven't gone as far as some here myself but it looks like i'll have to somewhat soon while it is fresh on the brain.
good work everyone!
it seems wright retracted saying n5 and n10 are the same marriage. impressive to get a lot right, classy to admit being mistaken, especially publicly.
look out CF and HA, here i come. lol
i wonder why pcgs still has that spot blacked out in the registry set(s)?
I don't know, but they still have the N10 variety listed on CoinFacts:
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1839-1c-n-10-booby-head-bn/403843
.
LOL i downloaded the n5 & n10 from CF just a bit ago and had the registry AND those images open and that didn't even occur to me. DOH
i have a thread deep within the CU forum for all the questionable/delisted/relisted/renamed etc varieties/marriages as i've been coming across them so they can be verified/referenced from time-to-time as they all get sorted out and for revisitation by us as well. this basic tracking thread/post has only been started somewhat recently and only has a small handful for now.