@coinkat said:
I suppose I should have looked at the Registry forum first
But it is the business of the Auction House to offer coins...coins that should have no strings attached... before accepting a consignment. It becomes their business based upon what their business is which is offering a service that should meet expectations of those that choose to bid. The Auction House has the ability to prevent this from being the issue that it is. Yes... it is that simple and straight forward.
This assumes that "Registry" is an intrinsic property of a coin. I have never registered or deregistered a coin from a registry because I don't play that game. If I should want to use the OPTION of adding a coin to a registry set, why is it the responsibility of another entity to IN ADVANCE accommodate my POSSIBLE choice?
You might as well ask if an auction company should be required to get Eagle Eye stickers on all Indian Cents or CAC stickers on all coins. Those are options that an individual collector can choose or NOT choose.
Auction companies can and do sell RAW coins. Should we require them to slab everything also?
You are assuming that Registry sets are a much more intrinsic aspect of a coin than they are. What percentage of slabbed coins are in registries? 1%? 2%? 5%?
It's PCGS's Registry. Why not make them responsible for going through auction catalogs and de-registering all sold items? The auction house has zero connection to the Registries.
It is much more efficient for everyone to just leave it the way it is. There is a process. It works. If you care enough about the registry, the slight delay in registering really shouldn't be a burden.
@jmlanzaf said:
Because it requires the collector to bear the burden.
Fair enough. So- does an auction house have a duty to insure that slabbed coins I buy are placed in my registry?
An excellent question. An auction house could just hire someone who automatically de-registers and re-registers the coin. And if you don't have a registry set, they could create one for you also. And eBay should do the same thing. And every dealer in the country should do it also. After all, a lot of coins don't go through auction houses. It would be much more efficient to make the (hated) auction houses, eBay and dealer networks do this rather than force some poor, innocent collector to send an email to the owner of the registry system.
I bought a group of coins from a seller once and when I requested they release their registry claim, I was told they bought the coins in an auction and had no idea who the previous owner was. So I went thru PCGS and got the coin released. I did not know about the registry info on the cert verification page. Cool.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
What I have suggested here is quite basic and simple... A consignment form should resolve a registry set issue as it places the burden on the consignor to delete the coin from the registry set before the auction listing. This involves minimal work on the part of the Auction house other than to change their consignment form- fees should not go up.
If the coin does not sell, the consignor can put the coin back in his registry set-
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
I really am unable to accept anything that you have written as you have missed my point. The consignor has a contractual relationship with the Auction house. As part of that consignment contract, the Auction house can easily raise the question of whether any slabbed coins are registered either in a set or inventory. If the consignor answers yes, the consignor removes/deletes the coin from the registry/inventory. And If the answer is no- the issue has been addressed and no further action is required.
This has nothing to do with stickers, raw coins or anything of that nature. Do not confuse a simple and straight forward idea that will streamline how an Auction House can best serve its customers. What I have suggested merely helps the Auction House and helps foster customer satisfaction.
Auction Houses will not need to hire anyone delete or register anything...And you know that was not suggested.
I am not sure how many registry sets there are between PCGS and NGC or how many coins are in sets. I suspect it is the collective dollar amount of the graded coins that ultimately matters. I doubt that the statement "Auction Houses financially benefit from Registry Sets" is in controversy. However, it is the participants that ultimately make the Registry Set Concept what is or what it can be.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
So- does an auction house have a duty to insure that slabbed coins I buy are placed in my registry?
No because that Is your choice and you do not have to participate in a registry. Period.
When I am a successful bidder at a Auction House, at the time I pay the Auction House the coin is mine and should NOT be registered in the registry set of the prior owner. Period.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
What I have suggested here is quite basic and simple... A consignment form should resolve a registry set issue as it places the burden on the consignor to delete the coin from the registry set before the auction listing. This involves minimal work on the part of the Auction house other than to change their consignment form- fees should not go up.
If the coin does not sell, the consignor can put the coin back in his registry set-
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
I really am unable to accept anything that you have written as you have missed my point. The consignor has a contractual relationship with the Auction house. As part of that consignment contract, the Auction house can easily raise the question of whether any slabbed coins are registered either in a set or inventory. If the consignor answers yes, the consignor removes/deletes the coin from the registry/inventory. And If the answer is no- the issue has been addressed and no further action is required.
This has nothing to do with stickers, raw coins or anything of that nature. Do not confuse a simple and straight forward idea that will streamline how an Auction House can best serve its customers. What I have suggested merely helps the Auction House and helps foster customer satisfaction.
Auction Houses will not need to hire anyone delete or register anything...And you know that was not suggested.
I am not sure how many registry sets there are between PCGS and NGC or how many coins are in sets. I suspect it is the collective dollar amount of the graded coins that ultimately matters. I doubt that the statement "Auction Houses financially benefit from Registry Sets" is in controversy. However, it is the participants that ultimately make the Registry Set Concept what is or what it can be.
My point is that the auction house bears no responsibility at all. You are forcing the auction house to verify that the coins are un-registered and then either remind the consignor or refuse the consignment. That is grossly unfair because (my sticker metaphor) registration is NOT an intrinsic property of the coin, it is a collector option.
It is not as simple as a check box on a form because someone will have to verify compliance.
You want to register a coin or get a sticker or even get a slab, it is YOUR option. And why pick on auction houses? What about individual dealers? eBay auctions? Country auction houses? You are putting the burden on everyone except the owners of the coins.
I don't believe it is the auction houses' duty. I have had it happen to me, on a few occasions, and it was quickly settled (a day or two) with my own images of the coin and an email to the grading service rep. It was not difficult.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
What I have suggested here is quite basic and simple... A consignment form should resolve a registry set issue as it places the burden on the consignor to delete the coin from the registry set before the auction listing. This involves minimal work on the part of the Auction house other than to change their consignment form- fees should not go up.
If the coin does not sell, the consignor can put the coin back in his registry set-
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
So does the auction house then have to check and see if the coins are actually free to register. Still takes time. If you want a coin then do what it takes to get it registered. It can't happen to you all that many times a year. I have never had to send a photo to get a coin released,,,,,,,, just do what it says when the instructions pop up,,,,,,,, (don't remember what they are as it has only happened to me a couple of times) but it was no big deal and in a day or two coin is released,,,,, sometimes within a hour or two.
You can check the cert before bidding,,,,, if not available to register then you can always choose to bid on a different coin.
While we are at it let's have the auction houses check for counterfeit slabs and do a metal test to insure the coins are really Gold, Silver or Platinum.
What I have suggested here is quite basic and simple... A consignment form should resolve a registry set issue as it places the burden on the consignor to delete the coin from the registry set before the auction listing. This involves minimal work on the part of the Auction house other than to change their consignment form- fees should not go up.
If the coin does not sell, the consignor can put the coin back in his registry set-
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
So does the auction house then have to check and see if the coins are actually free to register. Still takes time. If you want a coin then do what it takes to get it registered. It can't happen to you all that many times a year. I have never had to send a photo to get a coin released,,,,,,,, just do what it says when the instructions pop up,,,,,,,, (don't remember what they are as it has only happened to me a couple of times) but it was no big deal and in a day or two coin is released,,,,, sometimes within a hour or two.
You can check the cert before bidding,,,,, if not available to register then you can always choose to bid on a different coin.
While we are at it let's have the auction houses check for counterfeit slabs and do a metal test to insure the coins are really Gold, Silver or Platinum.
Well, I would expect auction houses to check for authenticity. That's a somewhat different issue.
I otherwise agree with you. I'll add another layer: suppose the consignor isn't the current registrant. Then the consignor would have to get the coin registered in their name just so they could de-register it before it was auctioned just in case the buyer wanted to register it.
There is a simple system that works. Making it more complex helps no one.
In addition, who is enforcing this auction house requirement? There are literally HUNDREDS of auction houses in the country. I assume we are just picking on the Big 5? And expecting them ALL to just accept this suggestion. What if Heritage does it and Stacks doesn't put the little box on their submission form? Should we organize a boycott?
Well, I would expect auction houses to check for authenticity. That's a somewhat different issue.
I am sure if the auction house notices a slab that looks "funny" they check it out but there are now so many different style slabs of all the grading services I think it would be impossible for them to be able to do this as well.
We all know counterfeiters get better every day,,,,,,, the best answer here is:
"BUYER BE AWARE"
And again if coin collecting and what goes with it gets to be too much trouble you can always find another hobby but I suspect anything you collect will have similar issues,,,,,,, even Beanie Babies get counterfeited.
I really am unable to accept anything that you have written as you have missed my point. The consignor has a contractual relationship with the Auction house. As part of that consignment contract, the Auction house can easily raise the question of whether any slabbed coins are registered either in a set or inventory. If the consignor answers yes, the consignor removes/deletes the coin from the registry/inventory. And If the answer is no- the issue has been addressed and no further action is required.
You've ignored my reply completely. What if the answer is "I don't know and if it turns out to be registered somewhere it's not registered in my name?" As a consignor I'm not going through the hassle of figuring all of that out to protect for possible situation where a buyer wants to register the coin. PCGS and NGC own the registries. Why not put the burden on them to make it harder to have coins someone doesn't own registered in their name?
@coinkat said:
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
As a potential bidder, it is your responsibility to investigate any concerns you might have about a coin before bidding and becoming the owner, including whether or not the coin is included in a current registry set. This involves minimal effort on your part and would allow you to avoid bidding on such coins in order to not have to deal with the possibility having to unlist and relist the coin in a TPG's registry, which you appear to consider to be too much trouble to do yourself.
@airplanenut said:
You've ignored my reply completely. What if the answer is "I don't know and if it turns out to be registered somewhere it's not registered in my name?"
I don't sell a lot of slabbed coins, but I've probably sold a hundred or so. Were any of them in a registry set? I don't have the first clue, as I don't participate in the registry myself.
@airplanenut said:
As a consignor I'm not going through the hassle of figuring all of that out to protect for possible situation where a buyer wants to register the coin.
As the owner of the coin, I'm not going through that hassle, either.
I am not ignoring you--- if you asked and the consignor did not know. That would have a negative implication in that he did not have in one of his sets and simply did not know if it was in someone else's set prior to his ownership. I don't think an I don't know places the burden on you to establish a negative.
If you as the coin owner did not have the coin in your registry set or inventory- you can answer the question no and move on. If you did have it registered in a set or inventory, you simply delete the coin before consigning- And if that is too much of a hassle then we can and should just agree to disagree.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
The Auction house plays a significant role because they auction the coins... and that is their business so it really has everything to do with it. I write my check out to the Auction house- they handle the coin and offer it in the stream of commerce as their service. It is incumbent upon them to deliver the coin free and clear of issues not described or disclosed as part of the auction itself. A buyer should not be placed in the position of undertaking a task that should rest with the consignor/Auction House. This task can best be resolved by them as it within their control.
Auction houses do not run registries, so they have zero responsibility, period. I have never had a problem with requesting to PCGS to get of coin of mine removed from a previous registry. They run the registry, it is solely their purview to decide what to do with coins on their registry. There is zero control by an auction house. Zero.
I am not ignoring you--- if you asked and the consignor did not know. That would have a negative implication in that he did not have in one of his sets and simply did not know if it was in someone else's set prior to his ownership. I don't think an I don't know places the burden on you to establish a negative.
In view of the fact that Ian Russell and Mark Feld are both participating in this discussion, can both you of at least agree to make a recommendation to your receptive companies to simply add a question followed by a statement to your consignment forms:
Are any of the slabbed coins referenced within this consignment registered in any registry set or in a registered inventory of any type? Yes___ No____
If yes, it is incumbent upon consignor to delete any such coins prior to auction listing.
Seems this prevents the problem and provides a level of service that enhances the customer experience.
I will wait patiently for a reply
You didn't allow for my scenario at all, and when I mentioned it in detail, you didn't reply. You didn't allow for an "I don't know," and you outright stated that it is on the consignor to remove any coins from the registry prior to listing, even though, as I noted, the consignor may not know without doing significant research they (rightfully) don't care to do.
Auction houses control what they sell and how they present coins for auction. Offering coins while they are in someone's registry and those coins remain there after you pay the auction house is not acceptable. Period.
Lets just agree to disagree
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@coinkat said:
Auction houses control what they sell and how they present coins for auction. Offering coins while they are on someone's else registry and they remain there after you pay the auction house is not acceptable. Period.
I don't think anybody is insisting that you consider it acceptable. What they're saying is that they don't agree with the idea that the auction house is responsible for doing anything about it.
An alternate solution to your problem, one that you don't have to depend on anybody else for- don't bid.
@coinkat said:
Auction houses control what they sell and how they present coins for auction. Offering coins while they are on someone's else registry and they remain there after you pay the auction house is not acceptable. Period.
I don't think anybody is insisting that you consider it acceptable. What they're saying is that they don't agree with the idea that the auction house is responsible for doing anything about it.
An alternate solution to your problem, one that you don't have to depend on anybody else for- don't bid.
See my response at 5:14- I think I addressed your concern- probably not to your satisfaction
That's the response I quoted, and no, it was not addressed to my satisfaction, in large part because it continues to ignore that the plan you've been touting has specific language--which you've asked representatives from two major auction houses to take verbatim--that completely ignores everything I've mentioned. Words matter, and if you're going to ask someone--or a large company--to do something that is already being met with significant critique, being sure you're very clear on exactly what you mean is really important. Your words fail at that.
You would think the owner would list his coins as "sold". I just received two that were still registered to the previous owner. I will patiently wait for the process to work.
While the OP is passionate about this topic, it appears that the overwhelming (unanimous?) consensus is that the auction house shouldn't be responsible. There already is a simple process for collectors to manage it with the TPGs. Plus, what percentage of auction sales go into registries anyway? A couple % at best?
Sounds like you have a solution waiting for a problem.
@bramn8r said:
You would think the owner would list his coins as "sold". I just received two that were still registered to the previous owner. I will patiently wait for the process to work.
They could be dead. Or they could be registered to a dead person and not the owner. There's a lot of permutations. They could be registered to someone who is 3 owners back.
@jmlanzaf said:
They could be dead. Or they could be registered to a dead person and not the owner. There's a lot of permutations. They could be registered to someone who is 3 owners back.
Should be easy enough for auction houses to sort out, don't you think?
The consigner should be responsible for removing the coin from their registry inventory if/when the new owner requests it through the registry website.
@jmlanzaf said:
They could be dead. Or they could be registered to a dead person and not the owner. There's a lot of permutations. They could be registered to someone who is 3 owners back.
Should be easy enough for auction houses to sort out, don't you think?
Lol.
It is easy enough for the new owner to sort out with PCGS and NGC. I'm not really sure why that isn't good enough.
The OP has completely ignored the issue of sellers other than auction houses. He's also ignored the enforcement issue both of and by the auction houses.
Whenever 95% of the forum agrees, it's worth asking one's self why that would be.
@amwldcoin said:
The simple solution to me is what I suggested above. As an example....Heritage had a PCGS Certified coin in their auction. How hard could it be with a little cooperation to have PCGS remove the coin from a registry as obviously the coin will be going to a new owner. It would be very easy to create a program which could automatically remove the certified coin from the set registry. Then Heritage would just have to enter the Cert Number in the auction listing like sellers do on ebay.
In view of the fact that Ian Russell and Mark Feld are both participating in this discussion, can both you of at least agree to make a recommendation to your receptive companies to simply add a question followed by a statement to your consignment forms:
Are any of the slabbed coins referenced within this consignment registered in any registry set or in a registered inventory of any type? Yes___ No____
If yes, it is incumbent upon consignor to delete any such coins prior to auction listing.
Seems this prevents the problem and provides a level of service that enhances the customer experience.
I will wait patiently for a reply
I'll be happy to bring up the issue, here. However, on a practical basis, I don't think it's nearly as simple as you make it out to be.
I would have thought it was obvious, but apparently not: not all coins consigned to auction sell.
Comments
I was just kidding...
Because it requires the collector to bear the burden. We want concierge service from auction houses (but don't want to pay BP or SP.)
Fair enough. So- does an auction house have a duty to insure that slabbed coins I buy are placed in my registry?
This assumes that "Registry" is an intrinsic property of a coin. I have never registered or deregistered a coin from a registry because I don't play that game. If I should want to use the OPTION of adding a coin to a registry set, why is it the responsibility of another entity to IN ADVANCE accommodate my POSSIBLE choice?
You might as well ask if an auction company should be required to get Eagle Eye stickers on all Indian Cents or CAC stickers on all coins. Those are options that an individual collector can choose or NOT choose.
Auction companies can and do sell RAW coins. Should we require them to slab everything also?
You are assuming that Registry sets are a much more intrinsic aspect of a coin than they are. What percentage of slabbed coins are in registries? 1%? 2%? 5%?
It's PCGS's Registry. Why not make them responsible for going through auction catalogs and de-registering all sold items? The auction house has zero connection to the Registries.
It is much more efficient for everyone to just leave it the way it is. There is a process. It works. If you care enough about the registry, the slight delay in registering really shouldn't be a burden.
An excellent question. An auction house could just hire someone who automatically de-registers and re-registers the coin. And if you don't have a registry set, they could create one for you also. And eBay should do the same thing. And every dealer in the country should do it also. After all, a lot of coins don't go through auction houses. It would be much more efficient to make the (hated) auction houses, eBay and dealer networks do this rather than force some poor, innocent collector to send an email to the owner of the registry system.
[end sarcasm]
I bought a group of coins from a seller once and when I requested they release their registry claim, I was told they bought the coins in an auction and had no idea who the previous owner was. So I went thru PCGS and got the coin released. I did not know about the registry info on the cert verification page. Cool.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
@GRANDAM
What I have suggested here is quite basic and simple... A consignment form should resolve a registry set issue as it places the burden on the consignor to delete the coin from the registry set before the auction listing. This involves minimal work on the part of the Auction house other than to change their consignment form- fees should not go up.
If the coin does not sell, the consignor can put the coin back in his registry set-
As a successful bidder at auction and as a customer of the Auction House, I simply have ZERO responsibility to contact PCGS/NGC with a picture of the coin and go through a process that rightfully should have been done before I had an ownership interest in the coin. At the time I pay the Auction House for the coin and honor my successful bid, I own the coin in an unencumbered state- including any and all rights that come with that ownership. Period.
@jmlanzaf
I really am unable to accept anything that you have written as you have missed my point. The consignor has a contractual relationship with the Auction house. As part of that consignment contract, the Auction house can easily raise the question of whether any slabbed coins are registered either in a set or inventory. If the consignor answers yes, the consignor removes/deletes the coin from the registry/inventory. And If the answer is no- the issue has been addressed and no further action is required.
This has nothing to do with stickers, raw coins or anything of that nature. Do not confuse a simple and straight forward idea that will streamline how an Auction House can best serve its customers. What I have suggested merely helps the Auction House and helps foster customer satisfaction.
Auction Houses will not need to hire anyone delete or register anything...And you know that was not suggested.
I am not sure how many registry sets there are between PCGS and NGC or how many coins are in sets. I suspect it is the collective dollar amount of the graded coins that ultimately matters. I doubt that the statement "Auction Houses financially benefit from Registry Sets" is in controversy. However, it is the participants that ultimately make the Registry Set Concept what is or what it can be.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
@MasonG
So- does an auction house have a duty to insure that slabbed coins I buy are placed in my registry?
No because that Is your choice and you do not have to participate in a registry. Period.
When I am a successful bidder at a Auction House, at the time I pay the Auction House the coin is mine and should NOT be registered in the registry set of the prior owner. Period.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
My point is that the auction house bears no responsibility at all. You are forcing the auction house to verify that the coins are un-registered and then either remind the consignor or refuse the consignment. That is grossly unfair because (my sticker metaphor) registration is NOT an intrinsic property of the coin, it is a collector option.
It is not as simple as a check box on a form because someone will have to verify compliance.
You want to register a coin or get a sticker or even get a slab, it is YOUR option. And why pick on auction houses? What about individual dealers? eBay auctions? Country auction houses? You are putting the burden on everyone except the owners of the coins.
I don't believe it is the auction houses' duty. I have had it happen to me, on a few occasions, and it was quickly settled (a day or two) with my own images of the coin and an email to the grading service rep. It was not difficult.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
So does the auction house then have to check and see if the coins are actually free to register. Still takes time. If you want a coin then do what it takes to get it registered. It can't happen to you all that many times a year. I have never had to send a photo to get a coin released,,,,,,,, just do what it says when the instructions pop up,,,,,,,, (don't remember what they are as it has only happened to me a couple of times) but it was no big deal and in a day or two coin is released,,,,, sometimes within a hour or two.
You can check the cert before bidding,,,,, if not available to register then you can always choose to bid on a different coin.
While we are at it let's have the auction houses check for counterfeit slabs and do a metal test to insure the coins are really Gold, Silver or Platinum.
Well, I would expect auction houses to check for authenticity. That's a somewhat different issue.
I otherwise agree with you. I'll add another layer: suppose the consignor isn't the current registrant. Then the consignor would have to get the coin registered in their name just so they could de-register it before it was auctioned just in case the buyer wanted to register it.
There is a simple system that works. Making it more complex helps no one.
In addition, who is enforcing this auction house requirement? There are literally HUNDREDS of auction houses in the country. I assume we are just picking on the Big 5? And expecting them ALL to just accept this suggestion. What if Heritage does it and Stacks doesn't put the little box on their submission form? Should we organize a boycott?
I am sure if the auction house notices a slab that looks "funny" they check it out but there are now so many different style slabs of all the grading services I think it would be impossible for them to be able to do this as well.
We all know counterfeiters get better every day,,,,,,, the best answer here is:
"BUYER BE AWARE"
And again if coin collecting and what goes with it gets to be too much trouble you can always find another hobby but I suspect anything you collect will have similar issues,,,,,,, even Beanie Babies get counterfeited.
You've ignored my reply completely. What if the answer is "I don't know and if it turns out to be registered somewhere it's not registered in my name?" As a consignor I'm not going through the hassle of figuring all of that out to protect for possible situation where a buyer wants to register the coin. PCGS and NGC own the registries. Why not put the burden on them to make it harder to have coins someone doesn't own registered in their name?
As a potential bidder, it is your responsibility to investigate any concerns you might have about a coin before bidding and becoming the owner, including whether or not the coin is included in a current registry set. This involves minimal effort on your part and would allow you to avoid bidding on such coins in order to not have to deal with the possibility having to unlist and relist the coin in a TPG's registry, which you appear to consider to be too much trouble to do yourself.
I don't sell a lot of slabbed coins, but I've probably sold a hundred or so. Were any of them in a registry set? I don't have the first clue, as I don't participate in the registry myself.
As the owner of the coin, I'm not going through that hassle, either.
@airplanenut
I am not ignoring you--- if you asked and the consignor did not know. That would have a negative implication in that he did not have in one of his sets and simply did not know if it was in someone else's set prior to his ownership. I don't think an I don't know places the burden on you to establish a negative.
@MasonG
If you as the coin owner did not have the coin in your registry set or inventory- you can answer the question no and move on. If you did have it registered in a set or inventory, you simply delete the coin before consigning- And if that is too much of a hassle then we can and should just agree to disagree.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Auction houses do not run registries, so they have zero responsibility, period. I have never had a problem with requesting to PCGS to get of coin of mine removed from a previous registry. They run the registry, it is solely their purview to decide what to do with coins on their registry. There is zero control by an auction house. Zero.
Please re-read what you wrote earlier
You didn't allow for my scenario at all, and when I mentioned it in detail, you didn't reply. You didn't allow for an "I don't know," and you outright stated that it is on the consignor to remove any coins from the registry prior to listing, even though, as I noted, the consignor may not know without doing significant research they (rightfully) don't care to do.
To quote you,
@airplanenut
See my response at 5:14- I think I addressed your concern- probably not to your satisfaction
@spacehayduke
Auction houses control what they sell and how they present coins for auction. Offering coins while they are in someone's registry and those coins remain there after you pay the auction house is not acceptable. Period.
Lets just agree to disagree
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I don't think anybody is insisting that you consider it acceptable. What they're saying is that they don't agree with the idea that the auction house is responsible for doing anything about it.
An alternate solution to your problem, one that you don't have to depend on anybody else for- don't bid.
Has anyone agreed?
I don't think so.
That's the response I quoted, and no, it was not addressed to my satisfaction, in large part because it continues to ignore that the plan you've been touting has specific language--which you've asked representatives from two major auction houses to take verbatim--that completely ignores everything I've mentioned. Words matter, and if you're going to ask someone--or a large company--to do something that is already being met with significant critique, being sure you're very clear on exactly what you mean is really important. Your words fail at that.
You would think the owner would list his coins as "sold". I just received two that were still registered to the previous owner. I will patiently wait for the process to work.
While the OP is passionate about this topic, it appears that the overwhelming (unanimous?) consensus is that the auction house shouldn't be responsible. There already is a simple process for collectors to manage it with the TPGs. Plus, what percentage of auction sales go into registries anyway? A couple % at best?
Sounds like you have a solution waiting for a problem.
They could be dead. Or they could be registered to a dead person and not the owner. There's a lot of permutations. They could be registered to someone who is 3 owners back.
Should be easy enough for auction houses to sort out, don't you think?
The consigner should be responsible for removing the coin from their registry inventory if/when the new owner requests it through the registry website.
Plain and simple if you ask me.
Mr_Spud
Lol.
It is easy enough for the new owner to sort out with PCGS and NGC. I'm not really sure why that isn't good enough.
The OP has completely ignored the issue of sellers other than auction houses. He's also ignored the enforcement issue both of and by the auction houses.
Whenever 95% of the forum agrees, it's worth asking one's self why that would be.
I would have thought it was obvious, but apparently not: not all coins consigned to auction sell.
Taking a random example of a coin sold at auction:
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/item/1924-20/9177/-4862673077694903100
PCGS literally already has the data. They just need to use it.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale