Intelligent thinking and CAC
I realize that intelligent self-thought and CAC don't really belong in the same sentence but I just have to say....
Let's say you have an 1881-S Morgan Dollar graded MS65. If CAC sells you a sucker sticker because they determine your coin is in the top 1/2, or 1/3, or whatever it is they claim they do, (assuming that was even humanly possible which it's not) that would require that CAC be looking at every single 1881-S Morgan dollar that's in a holder at that very moment to determine which are the lower 2/3 and which are the upper 1/3?
Okay....denial, yourrrrrr-up! LOL.
Comments
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You could have saved a few keystrokes by typing "I don't understand how CAC works" instead.
Protip- they have a website. If you're interested in educating yourself, you could check it out. Otherwise, you can just stay here and post some more.
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Waiting 8 months to slam CAC won’t slow down the bam hammer
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@MsMorrisine said:
Waiting 8 months to slam CAC won’t slow down the bam hammerIt delayed it 8 months...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.
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@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions0
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people like JA, have seen enough coins to know what is in the upper range for the grade. I havent seen no where near the number of 81-s he has seen, but I seen enough to know what is sticker worthy and what isnt.
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I can look at an 1881-S Morgan (or any other Morgan) and tell you whether it is solid for the grade, high end, low end, or over graded. If I can do that, certainly someone who has been around as long as Albanese and crew could do it. It's not that hard.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin0 -
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
But it was a good retort.
Smitten with DBLCs.
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I wonder if this is the same person yet again? Although the rhetoric is toned down some. Still, move on!
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@Aotearoa said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
But it was a good retort.
It was superfluous if you understood the sarcasm.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
No, I understood the sarcasm and it didn't make much sense. Teacher do grade papers before having seen them all. They have some concept in mind regarding what merits an A grade versus a B grade when it comes to a paper. Does that concept remain a constant from year to year or even at the start of grading 50 term papers to the end? You would hope so as a student hoping for a fairly graded paper but knowing human beings that's probably not the case. So much for your poor attempt at sarcasm.
PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small percentage of those coins.
That said the 1881-S example is an extreme as far as population numbers. There are coins that are far more rare where one person has seen a significant percentage of the coins that have been graded. Beyond that the statement that a particular coin is in the top 25% for the grade should be modified to add the top 25% of the coins I have seen.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin0 -
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
No, I understood the sarcasm and it didn't make much sense. Teacher do grade papers before having seen them all. They have some concept in mind regarding what merits an A grade versus a B grade when it comes to a paper. Does that concept remain a constant from year to year or even at the start of grading 50 term papers to the end? You would hope so as a student hoping for a fairly graded paper but knowing human beings that's probably not the case. So much for your poor attempt at sarcasm.
PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small percentage of those coins.
That said the 1881-S example is an extreme as far as population numbers. There are coins that are far more rare where one person has seen a significant percentage of the coins that have been graded. Beyond that the statement that a particular coin is in the top 25% for the grade should be modified to add the top 25% of the coins I have seen.
Teacher=CAC
You clearly did NOT understand the sarcasm.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Poof or boom?
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
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@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
No, I understood the sarcasm and it didn't make much sense. Teacher do grade papers before having seen them all. They have some concept in mind regarding what merits an A grade versus a B grade when it comes to a paper. Does that concept remain a constant from year to year or even at the start of grading 50 term papers to the end? You would hope so as a student hoping for a fairly graded paper but knowing human beings that's probably not the case. So much for your poor attempt at sarcasm.
PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small percentage of those coins.
That said the 1881-S example is an extreme as far as population numbers. There are coins that are far more rare where one person has seen a significant percentage of the coins that have been graded. Beyond that the statement that a particular coin is in the top 25% for the grade should be modified to add the top 25% of the coins I have seen.
Teacher=CAC
You clearly did NOT understand the sarcasm.
I understood teacher=CAC and I understood your attempt at sarcasm. You don't understand the inconsistencies in what you wrote as they relate to the discussion at hand.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin0 -
@GiantsLover said:
I realize that intelligent self-thought and CAC don't really belong in the same sentence but I just have to say....Let's say you have an 1881-S Morgan Dollar graded MS65. If CAC sells you a sucker sticker because they determine your coin is in the top 1/2, or 1/3, or whatever it is they claim they do, (assuming that was even humanly possible which it's not) that would require that CAC be looking at every single 1881-S Morgan dollar that's in a holder at that very moment to determine which are the lower 2/3 and which are the upper 1/3?
Okay....denial, yourrrrrr-up! LOL.
So, what you are saying in short is you only collect CAC stickered coins. Got it👌
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.1 -
...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@pmh1nic said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Coinosaurus said:
JA has looked at enough 1881-S Morgans to know how they come.....probably thousands of them.That's why teachers don't grade papers. I can't possibly determine an A grade if I haven't seen every paper ever written.
That depends on whether or not you're grading on a curve and whether the criteria for a grade has remained constant.
Sarcasm wasted.
No, I understood the sarcasm and it didn't make much sense. Teacher do grade papers before having seen them all. They have some concept in mind regarding what merits an A grade versus a B grade when it comes to a paper. Does that concept remain a constant from year to year or even at the start of grading 50 term papers to the end? You would hope so as a student hoping for a fairly graded paper but knowing human beings that's probably not the case. So much for your poor attempt at sarcasm.
PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small percentage of those coins.
That said the 1881-S example is an extreme as far as population numbers. There are coins that are far more rare where one person has seen a significant percentage of the coins that have been graded. Beyond that the statement that a particular coin is in the
Teacher=CAC
You clearly did NOT understand the sarcasm.
I understood teacher=CAC and I understood your attempt at sarcasm. You don't understand the inconsistencies in what you wrote as they relate to the discussion at hand.
Teacher=CAC
Papers=coins
Standards=standardsSarcasm.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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The Giants suck.
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@ms70 said:
The Giants suck.I'll second that.
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PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt > any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of > 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small
percentage of those coins.You don't have to see 10%, when even 1% is a statistically significant sample. Check out a sample size calculator.
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Yawn…irony in thread title
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
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*troll. They are everywhere
m
Walker Proof Digital Album
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......2 -
This is a dumb thread.
John
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution7 -
@Coinosaurus said:
PCGS has graded close to 150K 1881-S Morgan dollars in 64 and 65. I imagine NGC has graded as many. I seriously doubt > any one person has seen 10% of those coins so whatever judgement is being made about what constitutes the top 25% of > 64 coins is making a guesstimate. It may be an educated guesstimate but it's a guesstimate based on viewing a small
percentage of those coins.You don't have to see 10%, when even 1% is a statistically significant sample. Check out a sample size calculator.
Really? Not when you have two grading companies that over the last 30 years have had shifting grading "standards". For 1% or 10% to be statistically significant you would have to start with a real standard that did change every five or ten years.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin0 -
@messydesk said:
This is a dumb thread.So far this is the only comment of any value
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Can this thread be moved to the CAC forum?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire3 -
This thread didn't go downhill, it started at the bottom of the hill and went underground.
(Just wanted to post before the big red Closed sign gets hung).
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Let's make this thread slightly more educational. This is actually a common problem in industry. How can we estimate the proportion of an attribute in a population based on a sample. I will spare the detailed math, but the number is surprisingly small. If I wanted to estimate that I had 33% plus or minus 5%, with high confidence, I could sample 340 pieces and be confident in my benchmark. Is that less or more than you would think? Keep in mind this is for attribute (success/failure). I might need substantially less for a quantitative measure.
Aercus Numismatics - Certified coins for sale
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@Aercus said:
Let's make this thread slightly more educational. This is actually a common problem in industry. How can we estimate the proportion of an attribute in a population based on a sample. I will spare the detailed math, but the number is surprisingly small. If I wanted to estimate that I had 33% plus or minus 5%, with high confidence, I could sample 340 pieces and be confident in my benchmark. Is that less or more than you would think? Keep in mind this is for attribute (success/failure). I might need substantially less for a quantitative measure.Ah, statistics. Underappreciated. You hear it all the time around elections when people want to doubt the polling. I've literally heard people say, "but who are they asking? I don't know anyone who was asked." Smh...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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Is 340 large enough to be a representative sample? Even if all the same year
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
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@jmlanzaf said:
@Aercus said:
Let's make this thread slightly more educational. This is actually a common problem in industry. How can we estimate the proportion of an attribute in a population based on a sample. I will spare the detailed math, but the number is surprisingly small. If I wanted to estimate that I had 33% plus or minus 5%, with high confidence, I could sample 340 pieces and be confident in my benchmark. Is that less or more than you would think? Keep in mind this is for attribute (success/failure). I might need substantially less for a quantitative measure.Ah, statistics. Underappreciated. You hear it all the time around elections when people want to doubt the polling. I've literally heard people say, "but who are they asking? I don't know anyone who was asked." Smh...
Irrelevant.
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Yikes, a 3 post troll comes in here and makes me forget how to tie my own shoes! And these are ones with the Velcro straps, mind you.
"Intelligent self-thought"? More like pissing in a vat of ice tea then wondering why people are complaining about the bitter taste, instead praising the great mouthfeel and edgy fusion flavor.
10-4,
My Instagram pictures
Erik
My registry sets2 -
@CoinJunkie said:
@jmlanzaf said:
@Aercus said:
Let's make this thread slightly more educational. This is actually a common problem in industry. How can we estimate the proportion of an attribute in a population based on a sample. I will spare the detailed math, but the number is surprisingly small. If I wanted to estimate that I had 33% plus or minus 5%, with high confidence, I could sample 340 pieces and be confident in my benchmark. Is that less or more than you would think? Keep in mind this is for attribute (success/failure). I might need substantially less for a quantitative measure.Ah, statistics. Underappreciated. You hear it all the time around elections when people want to doubt the polling. I've literally heard people say, "but who are they asking? I don't know anyone who was asked." Smh...
Irrelevant.
Not really. It's the same fallacy that the OP introduced in the original screed. You don't have to sample 100% of the population to establish the norms for the population.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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@Mgarmy said:
Is 340 large enough to be a representative sample? Even if all the same yearDepends on how the sampling was done. If completely random, depending on the required tolerance, yes.
https://www.qualtrics.com/experience-management/research/determine-sample-size/
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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What is a "self-thought"? Can you have a thought that doesn't emanate from one's self?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
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