Is it safe to assume the 1921 Western Reserve Numismatic Club Medal by McNamara design came from.

coinsarefun · August 19, 2021 12:18PM

125th Anniversary Medal, Founding of Cleveland, OH, 1921, Medallic Arts
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It appears to me as this 1921 medal is made by Medallic Arts must have been the inspiration for the Western Reserve Numismatic Club medal.
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I wonder who came up with the inspiration for the design of both medals. They are very similar but the WRNC is much better in quality of design.
Do you think one of the club members saw the original 1921 medal and said….hey this would make a great club medal?
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Below are both medals. I must say the WRNC design is leaps and bounds better than the 2” bronze medal.
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Agree? disagree? anything to add?
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And below is Ron Landis Counter stamps for the 50th anniversary, 75th and 100th Anniversary

I guess I should include this set as the reverse is used on it but don't know who made these 1964 ANA Sets?
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291fifth · August 19, 2021 12:35PM

Does it say "MEDALLIC ARTS" on the edge? It may well be by them but the overall quality of the medal seems below their usual standards of that era.

coinsarefun · August 19, 2021 12:37PM

@291fifth said:
Does it say "MEDALLIC ARTS" on the edge? It may well be by them but the overall quality of the medal seems below their usual standards of that era.

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Yes it does. I forgot to show the edge.

keets · August 19, 2021 1:21PM

I think I understand your question(s) but the wording isn't clear.

ZoidMeister · August 19, 2021 1:37PM

Totally agree!

Z

coinsarefun · August 19, 2021 2:10PM

@keets said:
I think I understand your question(s) but the wording isn't clear.

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Sorry, transplant meds are playing hell with my brain and hard to get the wording straight…..
…I re-worded my questions.

coinsarefun · August 20, 2021 2:39PM

Anyone else want to add to any information ?

ZoidMeister · August 20, 2021 3:33PM

It's interesting that the Numismatic Club would choose Moses Cleveland as their primary logo. The history of the territorial disputes would have still be strong in our still developing nation at the time of the clubs founding. Moses, the revolutionary war General, led the team of surveyors mapping out what is now Cleveland Ohio.

The original medal shows General Cleveland with his surveying transit. It's interesting that the Numismatic Club medals eliminate that feature.

Z

Zoins · August 20, 2021 3:49PM

@coinsarefun said:
Do you think one of the club members saw the original 1921 medal and said….hey this would make a great club medal?

Perhaps, but not enough to win over the team in 1941? Imagine being in the club from 1921 to 1941 to 1971? I'm sure some people could have been in the club both in 1921 and 1971. It would have been quite a journey.

In 1921, the club's counterstamp was done by Theron and Frederick Bastian, who founded Bastian Brothers.

Zoins · August 20, 2021 3:53PM

Wow, this 1971 piece is being offered for $750!

Zoins · August 20, 2021 3:53PM

Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

coinsarefun · August 20, 2021 4:00PM

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

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Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.
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They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.
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Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Zoins · August 20, 2021 4:02PM

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.

They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.

Good to know. I couldn't find a WRNC website so it's good to know they are still around.

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Do you know if someone could have gotten a hold of both sides? Or was the other side cancelled / destroyed?

coinsarefun · August 20, 2021 4:03PM

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.

They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Do you know if someone could hvea gotten a hold of both sides? Or was the other side cancelled / destroyed?

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As far as I’ve been told the club keeps the obverse and Ron makes the reverse and defaces them.

Zoins · August 20, 2021 4:06PM

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.

They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Do you know if someone could hvea gotten a hold of both sides? Or was the other side cancelled / destroyed?

.
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As far as I’ve been told the club keeps the obverse and Ron makes the reverse and defaces them.

If the club keeps the obverse.... then it seems the uniface pieces could be struck by the club, just not by Ron?

coinsarefun · August 20, 2021 4:15PM

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.

They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Do you know if someone could hvea gotten a hold of both sides? Or was the other side cancelled / destroyed?

.
.
As far as I’ve been told the club keeps the obverse and Ron makes the reverse and defaces them.

If the club keeps the obverse.... then it seems the uniface pieces could be struck by the club, just not by Ron?

.
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Yes, that’s what some of the complaints arise with the counterstamp.
When I bought the piece with a bunch of punches on it I didn’t know at the time it was being sold by an active member. When I asked if I could have another piece simaliar replaced to go with what I own they said absolutely not but they would like if I donated my piece to the club as it’s very important to the club..
I asked if it was so special why was it sold by a current member on the open market of eBay??? No answer.

Zoins · August 21, 2021 8:58AM

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:
Anyone know if WRNC is doing medals this year? 2021 is the 100th anniversary!

Yes, there are offering the new 1921 Morgan and or peace dollars with the counterstamp.
I could have bought one for minimal amount but chose to have Ron make me something instead.

They should be offering it soon because they counterstruck the original 21 Morgan’s too. I guess it takes time to show up on eBay.

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

Do you know if someone could have gotten a hold of both sides? Or was the other side cancelled / destroyed?

As far as I’ve been told the club keeps the obverse and Ron makes the reverse and defaces them.

If the club keeps the obverse.... then it seems the uniface pieces could be struck by the club, just not by Ron?

Yes, that’s what some of the complaints arise with the counterstamp.
When I bought the piece with a bunch of punches on it I didn’t know at the time it was being sold by an active member. When I asked if I could have another piece similar replaced to go with what I own they said absolutely not but they would like if I donated my piece to the club as it’s very important to the club..
I asked if it was so special why was it sold by a current member on the open market of eBay??? No answer.

It sounds like at least one member of the club got these extra strikes and at least one member of the club isn't happy about it?

Trouble in paradise?

coinsarefun · August 21, 2021 9:42AM

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

It sounds like at least one member of the club got these extra strikes and at least one member of the club isn't happy about it?

Trouble in paradise?

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Well, as a new member I was only allowed one. Older member were allowed to submit several( I forget how many). They can also buy one or two Morgan’s counterstruck.
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The piece I have happened to be from the clubs president that year it was made. He had Landis make it for him special. And, it ended up in the families hands after he passed away then
it made its way to eBay. So, I really don’t blame anyone other than the same member that sold it on eBay. He is also the one(of many) members to vote me down in having another made for the 100th.
They claimed it’s to many counter strikes and water’s down the club.
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Again, for whatever reason….cause that doesn’t sound reasonable. The club voted me down and I respect that. But, if the piece is so important to the club why did the member sell it?
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Anywho…….still doesn’t take anything away from the prestigious club and all that they did in the early
days. And, there my “hometown team”

keets · August 21, 2021 10:01AM

The original medal shows General Cleveland with his surveying transit. It's interesting that the Numismatic Club medals eliminate that feature.

it is also unusual that there would be a 125 year Anniversary. what is the significance of that number?? further, it is sort of peculiar for the WRNC to commemorate 20 years. why?? to my way of thinking the dates which seem to be traditional are 50, 100, 150, 200, etc. since the club dies have been passed around and re-made I come to one conclusion: money. more to the point, greed, since whoever has the dies knows collectors will chase the c'stamps. as I have said before, I have owned the first two, 1941/1971 and currently own an AU from 1941, but subsequent strikes don't interest me for reasons mentioned above.

as I said, I currently have a 1941 c'stamp and two 1971 c'stamps, 1921-S(small S) Morgan Dollar and a one-ounce silver bar.

keets · August 21, 2021 10:04AM

Regarding that $750 Morgan. It’s only stamped on one side so technically it’s not blessed by the club.
Someone got a hold of the obverse and made a few.

since those were struck in 1971 it is unlikely that any club members "know" the circumstances of its existence, perhaps some Urban Myth handed down.

Zoins · August 21, 2021 12:40PM

This 1996 WRNC piece by Ron Landis is probably my favorite WRNC piece that I have. I have a bunch of others, but this one stands out because it's struck twice! It's the only one I've seen like this. The 1921 Morgan is also a nice touch since the club was founded in 1921!

coinsarefun · August 21, 2021 12:49PM

I like that one very much @Zoins !!

Zoins · August 21, 2021 1:33PM

@coinsarefun said:
I like that one very much @Zoins !!

Thank you Stef! You have lot of amazing pieces I drool over so that's high praise!

CaptHenway · August 21, 2021 3:34PM

So who designed and/or engraved that 1921 3-inch bronze?

keets · August 21, 2021 4:15PM

So who designed and/or engraved that 1921 3-inch bronze?

Medallic Art Company.

MedalCollector · August 21, 2021 4:15PM

@coinsarefun said:
Below are both medals. I must say the WRNC design is leaps and bounds better than the 3" bronze medal.
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If that piece is 3 inches in diameter, it might be a true rarity. All of the examples that I have seen are 2 inches (about 51mm in diameter).

To be fair to the original design in bronze, it is in a far worse state of preservation compared to the pristine, silver Heraldic Art medal. The surfaces also appear to be raw and somewhat deteriorated. Most examples are not preserved well. It may have been that these pieces did not receive the normal surface finish treatment that the Medallic Art Co. typically used in the 20’s. That said, the engraving, especially in the lettering, is amateurish.

Is it safe to assume the 1921 Western Reserve Numismatic Club Medal by McNamara design came from.

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