@ifthevamzarockin said:
I know this whole thing is crazy.
If someone told me this same story and everything they had done to get a refund I would call them a liar.
I would also tell them if they have made contact with ebay that many times they are doing something wrong while talking to them.
I have fallen in some strange time warp thing with ebay.
It's not about the amount of money, I have spent way too much time trying to recover a small amount.
It's the principal of the thing and all the small amounts nationwide add up to a very large amount.
It's only exempt categories. It is only a couple of states. While it is a fairly large amount of money to you or me, it is a tiny amount of money to a company the size of eBay. And, again, there is zero evidence that eBay is keeping the money.
Incompetent? Yes. Criminal? Balderdash. Especially if you consider that they've already been caught and complaints filed.
Here's a new one for me. If someone in the United States that lives in a state that charges sales tax on coins (not bullion) and they purchase a coin from another country - will they owe state sales tax on their purchase?
For anyone that thinks this is only affecting buyers you are wrong.
I took $2000 out of PayPal that was going to be used for coin purchases, any one of you could have been the seller(s).
I also wonder about the lost sales I have because someone clicks my buy it now and sees tax.
@Exbrit said:
Here's a new one for me. If someone in the United States that lives in a state that charges sales tax on coins (not bullion) and they purchase a coin from another country - will they owe state sales tax on their purchase?
Personally, I think some people seem to give eBay the benefit of the doubt.
I don't. They have approx 13,300 employees. It's an administrative company. Tax administration can be contracted out. They choose to keep it in house.
The states supply all the information you need. It's not that complicated. I have resale lic in two states. It's just not that complicated. If I sell an ms65 saint in CA, no tax. If I sell a 10lib, tax.
eBay knows the difference between civil and criminal wrongdoings. I just won't give them a free pass on this. They know what they are doing. I doubt they miss an opportunity to collect tax when due and they DO collect more in the aggregate than they should so the question remains, what do they do with the excess? Where is it?
@ifthevamzarockin said:
For anyone that thinks this is only affecting buyers you are wrong.
I took $2000 out of PayPal that was going to be used for coin purchases, any one of you could have been the seller(s).
I also wonder about the lost sales I have because someone clicks my buy it now and sees tax.
One of my oldest customers (20+years) is on a "time out" until eBay fixes the Florida sales tax issue. So, yes, it does affect everyone.
NO ONE, especially me, is saying that eBay isn't incompetent here. But the idea that they are either doing it intentionally or pocketing the money seems ludicrous. You couldn't possible get away with it. If they wanted to steal, the easier thing to do is to add 1 or 2 cents to every purchase. No one would notice. When you charge sales tax as a line item on the payment, most people are going to notice it.
@ifthevamzarockin said: "Especially if you consider that they've already been caught and complaints filed."
And they are still doing it.
Not correcting the problem could be considered criminal if they do nothing after complaints have been filed.
Depends on the state. They have fixed the problem that a number of states were initially having.
It's harder than you think to code it, in my opinion. States have all kinds of ways of writing the exemption. You can't even do it simply by category. For example, if I list a Whitman album in the nickel category, it needs to be taxed even if nickels aren't taxed.
In the Hate State of Connectitax, it is sales and use tax
For international purchases, if there is none collected the purchaser owes the use tax. The extra fun part is where customs duties and international shipping and insurance and really every pretty cent expended is used to calculate the use tax.
(Double taxation in the tax of duties part)
Ebay charges us 12% when an item sells with their new managed payments.
An average sales tax rate would be between 5% & 7%
Does anyone think that if there was a glitch or mistake in the system and ebay was loosing 5% to 7% per sale off the 12% that they would not have the problem corrected right away?
IF it is a glitch or mistake that for some very strange reason can't be corrected shouldn't there be an easy refund process?
FWIW: some eBay behaviour cannot be explained logically. We'd all hope logic can explain the universe. Sometimes it can't.
Logically, eBay should have been on this problem right away. Well, they weren't but for months I got emails from them telling me to write my senators. eBay had plenty of time to deal with it. It just happens to be discouraging buyers and sellers. It's as if they don't understand what makes people tick.
@ifthevamzarockin said:
Ebay charges us 12% when an item sells with their new managed payments.
An average sales tax rate would be between 5% & 7%
Does anyone think that if there was a glitch or mistake in the system and ebay was loosing 5% to 7% per sale off the 12% that they would not have the problem corrected right away?
IF it is a glitch or mistake that for some very strange reason can't be corrected shouldn't there be an easy refund process?
I have had people get it refunded fairly quickly.
I'm not saying it can't be corrected. In fact, they've fixed a number of states this year.
@MsMorrisine said:
state attorney general's office, too?
They would not talk to me for a while, they kept saying it was some other department that needed to handle it.
After contacting every department they told me to and documenting who I talked to they are now willing to listen.
They told me right up front that it will take them 45 days to decide IF they will investigate it, IF they decide to it could take several months after that. I have also filed reports with my state tax commission & California tax commission.
Do you think that if there was a glitch or mistake in the system and ebay was loosing 5% to 7% per sale off the 12% that they would not have the problem corrected right away?
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
ebay is applying a tax collecting algorithm across the board for all states and all items sold. It is going to have to be tweeked to allow a very few items (coins/currency/bullion) out of the millions sold to be properly made tax exempt according to each state's unique tax policy. I am confident they are fully aware of the consequences of illegally collecting sales tax and are working to make it right. The more that coin buyers put them on notice the more likely they are to commit resources to fixing it.
@derryb "ebay is applying a tax collecting algorithm across the board for all states and all items sold."
They had it working correctly in my state when they were first required to start collecting sales tax.
"It is going to have to be tweeked"
They did that and now it's not working right.
"I am confident they are fully aware of the consequences of illegally collecting sales tax and are working to make it right."
This was the response I got from an ebay CSR on 12-13-2020 "We are already aware of the inconvenient you are having with the illegal additional charge of taxes for sales."
That was 7 months ago, I'm not sure how hard they are working to correct the problem that in their own words is "illegal."
"The more that coin buyers put them on notice the more likely they are to commit resources to fixing it."
100% Agree!
Sellers need to put them on notice also because of lost sales.
Everybody loses with this ongoing problem.
Ebay loses sales and has to pay extra wages to handle refund requests.
Sellers lose sales because people don't want to pay a tax they are not supposed to be paying.
Buyers lose from not wanting to buy on ebay anymore.
7 months is a more than reasonable amount of time to find a solution to the problem.
@CoinJunkie said:
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T.
I can't log in to my Amazon account at work because Amazon doesn't recognize the computer there. They can send me an access code by email but we can't access outside email accounts from work. So there's no way to confirm the computer. After an inordinate waste of time, I was able to get in touch with someone in "customer service" and was told that's pretty much the way it is, nothing they can do. Service down to a T? If you say so.
@CoinJunkie said:
They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
I didn't say they did. I can point out where in the part of my previous comment that you quoted if you like.
@CoinJunkie said:
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T.
I can't log in to my Amazon account at work because Amazon doesn't recognize the computer there. They can send me an access code by email but we can't access outside email accounts from work. So there's no way to confirm the computer. After an inordinate waste of time, I was able to get in touch with someone in "customer service" and was told that's pretty much the way it is, nothing they can do. Service down to a T? If you say so.
@CoinJunkie said:
They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
I didn't say they did. I can point out where in the part of my previous comment that you quoted if you like.
Sounds like more of a problem with your company's network policies than a problem with amazon. Why don't you just use your phone (via your cell network, not WiFi) to complete the transaction?
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
There is a fundamental difference between eBay and Amazon, as I understand it. Everything I might wish to sell on Amazon is pre-categorized. On eBay, not so much. For example as someone posited on this thread or a similar one, eBay can't exempt everything going to, say, Florida in category Jefferson Nickels because Florida takes Whitman albums for Jefferson Nickels. When you sell such an album on Amazon, they know exactly what you have sold. So while it is a Herculean task for Amazon to have done this, it is at least possible. Not so eBay.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
There is a fundamental difference between eBay and Amazon, as I understand it. Everything I might wish to sell on Amazon is pre-categorized. On eBay, not so much. For example as someone posited on this thread or a similar one, eBay can't exempt everything going to, say, Florida in category Jefferson Nickels because Florida takes Whitman albums for Jefferson Nickels. When you sell such an album on Amazon, they know exactly what you have sold. So while it is a Herculean task for Amazon to have done this, it is at least possible. Not so eBay.
A reasonable point.... perhaps. OTOH, eBay's been around for over 25 years now, and the fact that listing items (properly) is as cumbersome and willy-nilly as it still is speaks to a serious lack of initiative and/or competence on their part. They also shot themselves in the foot by charging different fees per category, which gave sellers incentive to "get creative" with category designations. And of course, greed was probably responsible for allowing (and even promoting) listing in multiple categories simultaneously. For an item with a UPC (or PCGS coin number, etc.), the category should probably be pre-determined. Serious buyers should be using search instead of browsing categories in any case.
We're sort of getting off on a tangent here, though.
@CoinJunkie said:
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
Yes, I did. Explaining why something happens is not the same thing as excusing it. Lots of people confuse themselves by conflating the two.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
@CoinJunkie said:
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
Yes, I did. Explaining why something happens is not the same thing as excusing it. Lots of people confuse themselves by conflating the two.
My point is that being a large company shouldn't "explain" poor customer service. Many large companies have figured it out. eBay clearly has not.
@CoinJunkie said:
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
Yes, I did. Explaining why something happens is not the same thing as excusing it. Lots of people confuse themselves by conflating the two.
My point is that being a large company shouldn't "explain" poor customer service. Many large companies have figured it out. eBay clearly has not.
@CoinJunkie said:
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
Yes, I did. Explaining why something happens is not the same thing as excusing it. Lots of people confuse themselves by conflating the two.
My point is that being a large company shouldn't "explain" poor customer service. Many large companies have figured it out. eBay clearly has not.
Did I say all large companies have figured it out?
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
Eyeballs.
One reason amazon has more eyeballs than eBay is because it's a better platform with far better customer service. That said, I still sell (and occasionally buy) on eBay, so it's not beyond redemption for me. I just look at it as a case of a (near) monopoly that got lazy (and greedy) and far underperformed its potential as a result.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
Eyeballs.
One reason amazon has more eyeballs than eBay is because it's a better platform with far better customer service. That said, I still sell (and occasionally buy) on eBay, so it's not beyond redemption for me. I just look at it as a case of a (near) monopoly that got lazy (and greedy) and far underperformed its potential as a result.
If they are improperly/illegally collecting the tax why is it hard to believe that they could be improperly/illegally keeping it?
"My question is regarding evidence that eBay is keeping this tax and not passing it to the state."
The purchases I have been refunded for were refunded by ebay not my state tax commission.
In all of my communications with ebay they have never said "you are going to need to request a refund from your state."
This would seem to indicate ebay is still in control of the funds.
"So you have internal eBay documents and/or records showing sales tax submissions to your state?"
Like ebay would release any internal documents without a court order.
The assertion that eBay is collecting tax and then keeping it does not make any sense.
There are many things ebay does that don't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense that they would not have simply refunded me 2 months ago.
You could contact the revenue department in the state for which the tax was collected and ask them if the tax was received by them or not.
@BAJJERFAN said:
You could contact the revenue department in the state for which the tax was collected and ask them if the tax was received by them or not.
Yes, by all means. You might get an answer in six or eight years. And be sure to let us know what their customer service is like.
The problem I have is "once eBay realizes/is shown that the collection was improper then it should be refunded promptly."
You both mentioned "ridiculously tiny benefit" & "a few bucks"
I would think with this being a nationwide problem that has gone on for over 6 months the amount could be very large.
I have not been buying for about 2 months so I had not checked in a while to see if they have corrected the problem.
I just checked and they are still collecting tax for my state.
Ebay has known about this problem for over 6 months.
It has gone long enough that if it were a glitch or technical problem there is no reason it could not have been corrected by now.
Why don't you just request it back from the state that received it. They likely have a form to fill out and return. Or contact that state's revenue fraud department.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
Eyeballs.
One reason amazon has more eyeballs than eBay is because it's a better platform with far better customer service. That said, I still sell (and occasionally buy) on eBay, so it's not beyond redemption for me. I just look at it as a case of a (near) monopoly that got lazy (and greedy) and far underperformed its potential as a result.
And extensive customer reviews and answered questions. And comparative product suggestions. And guaranteed delivery times. And no-questions-asked returns on pretty much everything. And responsive customer service. And usually the lowest prices. And...
@BAJJERFAN said:
You could contact the revenue department in the state for which the tax was collected and ask them if the tax was received by them or not.
Yes, by all means. You might get an answer in six or eight years. And be sure to let us know what their customer service is like.
I reported a seller to my state revenue fraud dept who was collecting sales tax on their behalf and not submitting it and I received a reply within a few days. Since he never sent the merchandise I suppose that technically he didn't sell it. He never refunded my money either.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
Eyeballs.
One reason amazon has more eyeballs than eBay is because it's a better platform with far better customer service. That said, I still sell (and occasionally buy) on eBay, so it's not beyond redemption for me. I just look at it as a case of a (near) monopoly that got lazy (and greedy) and far underperformed its potential as a result.
And extensive customer reviews and answered questions. And comparative product suggestions. And guaranteed delivery times. And no-questions-asked returns on pretty much everything. And responsive customer service. And usually the lowest prices. And...
@logger7 said:
... I complained to my state of CT senator and the state tax department replied that they could send a letter to ebay asking them to refund taxes not due.
what did you get hit on? (I'm in CT, too.)
I am in CT too and have noticed that many purchases of mine has been taxed extra than usual. Tried to reach out to eBay customer service thrice and the reply was the same, we will look into it.
Seriously planning to reach out to the attorney general's office.
I'm not saying eBay is blameless. They should be able to do better than this, but it's a huge company and there probably are only a handful of people there who can snap their fingers and get something done stat. Have you seen the movie Office Space? Imagine that, but on steroids.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
No, I neither stated nor implied that eBay offers a better alternative. I stated that eBay treats sellers better in my opinion. The types of items that do well on eBay vs Amazon tend to not have a lot of overlap.
If they are improperly/illegally collecting the tax why is it hard to believe that they could be improperly/illegally keeping it?
"My question is regarding evidence that eBay is keeping this tax and not passing it to the state."
The purchases I have been refunded for were refunded by ebay not my state tax commission.
In all of my communications with ebay they have never said "you are going to need to request a refund from your state."
This would seem to indicate ebay is still in control of the funds.
"So you have internal eBay documents and/or records showing sales tax submissions to your state?"
Like ebay would release any internal documents without a court order.
The assertion that eBay is collecting tax and then keeping it does not make any sense.
There are many things ebay does that don't make any sense.
It doesn't make any sense that they would not have simply refunded me 2 months ago.
You could contact the revenue department in the state for which the tax was collected and ask them if the tax was received by them or not.
I would assume this is not publicly available information. Additionally, states typically require total sales by certain categories. You don't submit a listing of every single sale such that the state could look up if a sale to Jim in Springfield was properly reported and submitted.
@Davideo said:
You don't submit a listing of every single sale such that the state could look up if a sale to Jim in Springfield was properly reported and submitted.
BAJJERFAN says he was able to get that info:
"I reported a seller to my state revenue fraud dept who was collecting sales tax on their behalf and not submitting it and I received a reply within a few days."
Comments
It's only exempt categories. It is only a couple of states. While it is a fairly large amount of money to you or me, it is a tiny amount of money to a company the size of eBay. And, again, there is zero evidence that eBay is keeping the money.
Incompetent? Yes. Criminal? Balderdash. Especially if you consider that they've already been caught and complaints filed.
Sounds like something they could be sued for.
"Especially if you consider that they've already been caught and complaints filed."
And they are still doing it.
Not correcting the problem could be considered criminal if they do nothing after complaints have been filed.
Here's a new one for me. If someone in the United States that lives in a state that charges sales tax on coins (not bullion) and they purchase a coin from another country - will they owe state sales tax on their purchase?
Had this question asked yesterday.
@Exbrit It should be collected according to the delivery address not the senders.
For anyone that thinks this is only affecting buyers you are wrong.
I took $2000 out of PayPal that was going to be used for coin purchases, any one of you could have been the seller(s).
I also wonder about the lost sales I have because someone clicks my buy it now and sees tax.
yes
Personally, I think some people seem to give eBay the benefit of the doubt.
I don't. They have approx 13,300 employees. It's an administrative company. Tax administration can be contracted out. They choose to keep it in house.
The states supply all the information you need. It's not that complicated. I have resale lic in two states. It's just not that complicated. If I sell an ms65 saint in CA, no tax. If I sell a 10lib, tax.
eBay knows the difference between civil and criminal wrongdoings. I just won't give them a free pass on this. They know what they are doing. I doubt they miss an opportunity to collect tax when due and they DO collect more in the aggregate than they should so the question remains, what do they do with the excess? Where is it?
One of my oldest customers (20+years) is on a "time out" until eBay fixes the Florida sales tax issue. So, yes, it does affect everyone.
NO ONE, especially me, is saying that eBay isn't incompetent here. But the idea that they are either doing it intentionally or pocketing the money seems ludicrous. You couldn't possible get away with it. If they wanted to steal, the easier thing to do is to add 1 or 2 cents to every purchase. No one would notice. When you charge sales tax as a line item on the payment, most people are going to notice it.
Depends on the state. They have fixed the problem that a number of states were initially having.
It's harder than you think to code it, in my opinion. States have all kinds of ways of writing the exemption. You can't even do it simply by category. For example, if I list a Whitman album in the nickel category, it needs to be taxed even if nickels aren't taxed.
In the Hate State of Connectitax, it is sales and use tax
For international purchases, if there is none collected the purchaser owes the use tax. The extra fun part is where customs duties and international shipping and insurance and really every pretty cent expended is used to calculate the use tax.
(Double taxation in the tax of duties part)
Ebay charges us 12% when an item sells with their new managed payments.
An average sales tax rate would be between 5% & 7%
Does anyone think that if there was a glitch or mistake in the system and ebay was loosing 5% to 7% per sale off the 12% that they would not have the problem corrected right away?
IF it is a glitch or mistake that for some very strange reason can't be corrected shouldn't there be an easy refund process?
state attorney general's office, too?
FWIW: some eBay behaviour cannot be explained logically. We'd all hope logic can explain the universe. Sometimes it can't.
Logically, eBay should have been on this problem right away. Well, they weren't but for months I got emails from them telling me to write my senators. eBay had plenty of time to deal with it. It just happens to be discouraging buyers and sellers. It's as if they don't understand what makes people tick.
I have had people get it refunded fairly quickly.
I'm not saying it can't be corrected. In fact, they've fixed a number of states this year.
They would not talk to me for a while, they kept saying it was some other department that needed to handle it.
After contacting every department they told me to and documenting who I talked to they are now willing to listen.
They told me right up front that it will take them 45 days to decide IF they will investigate it, IF they decide to it could take several months after that. I have also filed reports with my state tax commission & California tax commission.
@jmlanzaf
Do you think that if there was a glitch or mistake in the system and ebay was loosing 5% to 7% per sale off the 12% that they would not have the problem corrected right away?
@jmlanzaf
One of my oldest customers (20+years) is on a "time out" until eBay fixes the Florida sales tax issue. So, yes, it does affect everyone.
"NO ONE, especially me, is saying that eBay isn't incompetent here."
Thank you for the reply.
And yet amazon is way bigger than eBay and seems to have customer service down to a T. Face it, eBay has been systemically mismanaged pretty much since forever. They don't get a pass just because they're "huge".
This is definitely true. Depending on how it plays out and how widespread of a problem it actually is, it could potentially be a class action lawsuit.
ebay is applying a tax collecting algorithm across the board for all states and all items sold. It is going to have to be tweeked to allow a very few items (coins/currency/bullion) out of the millions sold to be properly made tax exempt according to each state's unique tax policy. I am confident they are fully aware of the consequences of illegally collecting sales tax and are working to make it right. The more that coin buyers put them on notice the more likely they are to commit resources to fixing it.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
@derryb
"ebay is applying a tax collecting algorithm across the board for all states and all items sold."
They had it working correctly in my state when they were first required to start collecting sales tax.
"It is going to have to be tweeked"
They did that and now it's not working right.
"I am confident they are fully aware of the consequences of illegally collecting sales tax and are working to make it right."
This was the response I got from an ebay CSR on 12-13-2020
"We are already aware of the inconvenient you are having with the illegal additional charge of taxes for sales."
That was 7 months ago, I'm not sure how hard they are working to correct the problem that in their own words is "illegal."
"The more that coin buyers put them on notice the more likely they are to commit resources to fixing it."
100% Agree!
Sellers need to put them on notice also because of lost sales.
Everybody loses with this ongoing problem.
Ebay loses sales and has to pay extra wages to handle refund requests.
Sellers lose sales because people don't want to pay a tax they are not supposed to be paying.
Buyers lose from not wanting to buy on ebay anymore.
7 months is a more than reasonable amount of time to find a solution to the problem.
I can't log in to my Amazon account at work because Amazon doesn't recognize the computer there. They can send me an access code by email but we can't access outside email accounts from work. So there's no way to confirm the computer. After an inordinate waste of time, I was able to get in touch with someone in "customer service" and was told that's pretty much the way it is, nothing they can do. Service down to a T? If you say so.
I didn't say they did. I can point out where in the part of my previous comment that you quoted if you like.
They block your phone access at work, too?
Sounds like more of a problem with your company's network policies than a problem with amazon. Why don't you just use your phone (via your cell network, not WiFi) to complete the transaction?
You said: "but it's a huge company...", so you can try and spin it now, but the implication was clearly that large companies shouldn't be held to the highest customer service standards.
There is a fundamental difference between eBay and Amazon, as I understand it. Everything I might wish to sell on Amazon is pre-categorized. On eBay, not so much. For example as someone posited on this thread or a similar one, eBay can't exempt everything going to, say, Florida in category Jefferson Nickels because Florida takes Whitman albums for Jefferson Nickels. When you sell such an album on Amazon, they know exactly what you have sold. So while it is a Herculean task for Amazon to have done this, it is at least possible. Not so eBay.
Complaints here that eBay favors buyers over sellers are common and relatively accurate. However, it pales in comparison to Amazon in this area, in my opinion. In my experience Amazon knows that sellers will put up with a lot.
Amazon bends over backwards for buyers and bends sellers in half.
Interesting. So why does anyone sell on amazon when eBay offers a better alternative (according to you), and much lower rates (from what I understand)?
A reasonable point.... perhaps. OTOH, eBay's been around for over 25 years now, and the fact that listing items (properly) is as cumbersome and willy-nilly as it still is speaks to a serious lack of initiative and/or competence on their part. They also shot themselves in the foot by charging different fees per category, which gave sellers incentive to "get creative" with category designations. And of course, greed was probably responsible for allowing (and even promoting) listing in multiple categories simultaneously. For an item with a UPC (or PCGS coin number, etc.), the category should probably be pre-determined. Serious buyers should be using search instead of browsing categories in any case.
We're sort of getting off on a tangent here, though.
Yes, I did. Explaining why something happens is not the same thing as excusing it. Lots of people confuse themselves by conflating the two.
Eyeballs.
I don't think it's eyeballs. A better search engine and Buyer protection comes to my mind.
My point is that being a large company shouldn't "explain" poor customer service. Many large companies have figured it out. eBay clearly has not.
Tried AT+T's customer service lately?
Did I say all large companies have figured it out?
One reason amazon has more eyeballs than eBay is because it's a better platform with far better customer service. That said, I still sell (and occasionally buy) on eBay, so it's not beyond redemption for me. I just look at it as a case of a (near) monopoly that got lazy (and greedy) and far underperformed its potential as a result.
The way things should be and the way they are are not always going to be the same.
You agreed with the CS part and just why do you think their platform is better? The search engine!
You could contact the revenue department in the state for which the tax was collected and ask them if the tax was received by them or not.
Yes, by all means. You might get an answer in six or eight years. And be sure to let us know what their customer service is like.
Why don't you just request it back from the state that received it. They likely have a form to fill out and return. Or contact that state's revenue fraud department.
And extensive customer reviews and answered questions. And comparative product suggestions. And guaranteed delivery times. And no-questions-asked returns on pretty much everything. And responsive customer service. And usually the lowest prices. And...
I reported a seller to my state revenue fraud dept who was collecting sales tax on their behalf and not submitting it and I received a reply within a few days. Since he never sent the merchandise I suppose that technically he didn't sell it. He never refunded my money either.
Lowest prices eh! So how many coins have you bought on Amazon?
Come on guys, please don't get this thread shut down because of bickering over Amazon.
It would be nice if I am able to update this and the thread isn't closed when this problem is resolved or I get a refund.
It's normal for members to take out their frustration on each other. Especially when the topic is ebay, usps, the mint or paypal.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
I am in CT too and have noticed that many purchases of mine has been taxed extra than usual. Tried to reach out to eBay customer service thrice and the reply was the same, we will look into it.
Seriously planning to reach out to the attorney general's office.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I hope you don't think I'm fighting!
No, I neither stated nor implied that eBay offers a better alternative. I stated that eBay treats sellers better in my opinion. The types of items that do well on eBay vs Amazon tend to not have a lot of overlap.
I would assume this is not publicly available information. Additionally, states typically require total sales by certain categories. You don't submit a listing of every single sale such that the state could look up if a sale to Jim in Springfield was properly reported and submitted.
BAJJERFAN says he was able to get that info:
"I reported a seller to my state revenue fraud dept who was collecting sales tax on their behalf and not submitting it and I received a reply within a few days."