NGC Prototype Black NGC Slab status?
oreville
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Understand that NGC has been sold.
Has the famous and elusive NGC prototype black NGC slab has been sold as well?
A Collectors Universe poster since 1997!
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No one knows?
How much is it worth?
Do not know. But it is probably the single most valuable and recognizable slab in our hobby.
I would guess it would be worth anywhere between $10,000 and $200,000 depending on how much buyers clamor for it.
Black NGC slabs have been steadily rising in value since 1990 and they are not the prototype.
Are there any photos?
And should it be called a pattern slab
Interesting. Coin collectors seem to use the term pattern.
I believe I once saw a photo of what this prototype black NGC slab might have looked like but am not positive.
It is still owned by Mark Salzburg. It was posted on NGC Instagram in February, 2016.
Can you re-post it here?
Can you update the thread of the census report of the NGC 2.1 slabs? I tried to update it here but it would not update.
Wow.
I wouldn’t have thought it would be a modern. Especially since they didn’t start off doing moderns way back.
Cool.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
It is cool and different but if it cost more then a regular submission no thanks.
I have three black NGC slabs with graded pre-1933 Saints. but they are not the prototype. The prototype black NGC slab was also created in 1987 when there was excitement about the new 1986 and 1987 Gold American Eagles struck by the US Mint.
I once won a $1 from @MrEureka on this. Sorry, opera lovers. Salzburg is a town in Germany. Salzberg is the the grading guy in FL. A long way from Montana, where David Hull now (?) lives.
Ellis Island notwithstanding; a burg is a town. a berg is a mountain.
You meant David Hall?
The slab is like a time capsule with the AGE
No, David Hull (biggest paleo-vinyl collector in Montana).
Neither he nor Mark Salzburg should be confused with either David Hall or Mark Salzberg.
edited to add: as usual, a re-read shows that explaining a joke just makes it worse,
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did you intend to say "way back" or "way black."
John Albanese, Robert Boyer, Ron Parisi and myself examined and approved the NGC slab design after Parisi handled the initial design aspects. I held "the prototype" in my hands. IIRC it had an insert, though I don't remember a specific coin date/grade.
Whatever that "famous and elusive" slab might be, it is not, by me, the prototype. Not the one that I saw and handled. I find it hard to imagine I ever saw the one with the bullion in it.
Neither NGC nor PCGS was in the bullion-grading business back then. $20 gold have a 34.00 mm diameter, $50 Eagles have a 32.70mm diameter. That gasket size, historically, makes no sense. Since Mark hadn't joined NGC till half a year or more later, the knowledge wasn't first-hand. If Ron Parisi or JA personally told Mark that this item was the "prototype", I will retract. Though likely insincerely at best.
I have no idea nor even a speculation as to how that particular object, with its historical imputation intact, might have come to exist within the time period before we opened.
Has Mark Salzberg himself stated the slab pictured is "the prototype"? Refer me to some source material please. How do I locate the text of the NGC Instagram? Was there an email? Just don't want @oreville misspending "$10,000 to $200,000".
Do not worry. I would first personally verify with JA and am not motivated to buy the so-called prototype.
While $200k would be a crazy price for that slab, I suspect there are half a dozen of us who would be very tempted for $10,000.
Does it matter if its reputed pedigree is incorrect? Absent definitive evidence to refute my recollection, I'd be willing to testify for the plaintiff if this item traded based the spurious pedigree. Please recall that, absent contradiction, I am the only eye-witness to this situation.
Who is David Hull?
The proven prototype might be worth more than that. But there's clearly something unique about the one pictured above.
I also seem to recall the black slab pictured above displayed at the NGC booth at FUN circa 2012 or 2013 and labeled as the prototype. So if it is a myth, it's one that's been advertised for a while.
Thus, a sandwich with a pile of pork, is a 'hamberger'.
@Kove You've got a dark coin holder, a press release and an eye-witness.
Please inform NGC that I have slandered them. My counter-claim will be hilarious (and expensive).
Not that I care very much. Nor do they.
I'd suggest that your self-interest in this area would be enhanced should you display more curiosity and less smug complacency, If this is your niche, police it critically. Perform your due diligence. Pretend you think what I've said might have some kernel of truth in it and ask yourself if you have suppositions that might be challenged,
I enjoy urban legends as much as the next guy. But intellectual rigor makes and saves me money or I'd just be another guppy.
I'm out, but please continue to enjoy your regularly scheduled programming on The Matrix.
Not even the gasket diameters make you think ?
coloneljessup said:
" JD pulls out a sample rattler, expounding quite briefly on its virtues and, memorably, exclaiming "And it's waterproof" as he dropped it into his water glass. Would you doubt my word if I related that he said "Well, I guess I'd better tell David we're going to have to work on that".
I do believe that!
I did the same at the 2015 FUN show by publicly plunking down the new PCGS (extra sample-at the time) slab into my water glass to see if it was waterproof as well!
Don saw me do that and was not sure to be be amused or not.
Ok, so if this prototype didn’t have a GAE, what coin was in it? That’s the only thing I’m curious to know…
My response:
At least, if not more. If it was $10,000 I would suddenly be more motivated.
I dare say if it was on eBay for $10k it would last no more than 10 minutes.
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
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I will show JA the so-called prototype when I meet him in NJ within several weeks and ask him if he remembers it.
I will report back.
Better yet I will ask him to post here which would be a treat for all of us.
Robert, I would not expect John to post here, regardless of the subject.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Robert,
JA knows you well and admires your collecting zeal. He lurks. From my conversations with him about my own posts, I am very sure he will never post here. For this alone, I would call him a very wise man. While he might not have noticed this thread, if you emailed him today he would have all he needs to respond to you privately. My guess is that his first response will be "Huh?"
If the starting bid is $10K, I'm in .......
Does that include the cost of my non-de-authentication?
Rick, you’ve certainly tried more than once to caution potential buyers to do further diligence.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I only stated I would ask. JA is a very low key person and I was successful in convincing him to post here once years ago. But on a very narrow historical reference subject I might get lucky.
I found the Feb 2016 posts on Instagram but it was reposted in 2019 with more information that was not shared in 2016.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Incorrect info -
NGC started slabbing about six weeks before the 1987 ANA. The objections at ANA (July/Aug1987) resulted in a quick shift to a, "right-side-up" coin placement, a white gasket, etc. It may well be that the newer holder was not available until October of that year.
Further:
Started as a "sample"? or "prototype"? Which? A $500+ coin inside a sample?
Sloppy language doesn't mean sloppy research but .....
I think the writer is an enthusiast, but other than that....?
I'll concede (for now) that the info about lathing is provocative.
When was this piece "discovered"?
I distinctly remember not remembering that slab. That's really all I have.
Memory is elastic. I could be mis-remembering. My first reaction to seeing this thing was simply "I've never seen that before". My second was "WTF!" My third was "And that gold thing make no sense".
I have no idea why Parisi would have put an AGE in that thing He knew nothing about coins. Neither JA or I would have mentioned their existence. I can find no rationale for the existence of an AGE sized-gasket in 1987. In JA's words. it was "fancy bullion". FWIW, I personally verified the diameters of all coins for the purpose of computing tolerances for gasket compression and supplied them to Parisi. That size gasket was never specified or used elsewhere in the 1980's.
Got any email address for this "functionary"? We should talk. Maybe he knows something I don't.
Incidentally, if it's kosher, I'd say $25K (though not me)
Not to mention the fact that my ego will be shattered if I'm off-base but, believe me, you folks care a lot more than I do about this subject. I simply enjoy your enthusiasm
"It's like God, Family, Country, except Sticker, Plastic, Coin."
Why would your ego be shattered just because if you are 'off-base?' It was 34 years ago.
Part of being a multi-talented idiot-savant is having my ego shattered. Buddha actually recommends it. Some days I giggle as, in a second or two, it re-coheres as does mercury. Sometimes I sulk.
As I once remarked to a Freudian analyst dealing with her frustrations in "working through" her defenses, "sometimes I like to think of dissociation as sort of like taking a vacation". This last is sorta like one of those physicist jokes on "Big Bang Theory"
@ColonelJessup make life easier? Cut out the savant part? Leaves you in good company as a multi-talented idiot.
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