@Crypto said:
They really just need to mint to order, that alone would depower the flippers, flatten the rush to order and get the collectors back in the drivers seat.
The mint has no business creating artificial squeeze points that constrict supply and allows bottom feeders to get between the end collector and the supply chain. When no one benefits except people who add no value then the process is broken
The US mint is a business. Creating artificial squeeze points is HOW they business.... They create customers by having impulse buying opportunities and limited releases are what people want. I have purchased coins I would have NEVER purchased just because they drive me to the site for limited issues. The most recent is I'm a collector of the presidential silver medals now. Really nice coins.
You may not like the game but don't hate the players. Capitalisms is a great thing. There seem to be a lot of folks that miss coins for one reason or another and are happy to get them on the secondary market, I being one of them. If there weren't resellers, then I wouldn't be a collector for many of my coins, especially those minted before I was born.
How many coins would people actually buy if the mint had years and years worth of coins up at any given time? You gotta buy it now or it's GONE!
Agree
It is also worth noting that the Mint benefits, as well as the hobby itself, from the advertising and marketing done by the resellers.
resellers provide no value to the hobby, the mint or collectors for just buying up all bread and then doubling the price. If it helps you to sleep at night that's fine but it is marginal behavior
That is not true. The TV guys sell coins to people that never knew these things existed. Sometimes that hurts, other times it creates a new collector. When the print guys run full page ads, it makes people aware of coins.
@MasonG said:
"As the demand for silver remains greater than the supply, the reality is such that not everyone will be able to purchase a coin. However, we are confident that during the postponement, we will be able to greatly improve on our ability to deliver the utmost positive U.S. Mint experience that out customers deserve"?
But they already have all of the planchets needed for these coins!
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@CoinHoarder said:
The mint is now producing coins that they are making a profit on. They advised us of this last October when they raised prices on certain issues. Before everybody was complaining that the mint mass produced so many coins, that there was no secondary market for what they bought. Now people are complaining that the US Mint does not make enough coins so everybody can get one. No matter what they do, people will always complain. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t.
The best explanation of the apparent contradiction you described is that the buyers in large number (if not majority) don't really like what they are buying that much, not just for this coin, but all US Mint products.
Another option would be to hold an auction with HHL of one where anyone who wanted to pay enough would be guaranteed to buy it, keeping intact the "limited" mintage.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this with third option, many would still complain because the price would possibly (likely IMO) decline in the secondary market.
@ChrisH821 said:
I still think that at the 175K mintage there are more than enough of these to go around. The initial supply problem is caused by bots, flippers, and "others" who bought the max HHL of ten "just because they could". The limit of 10 allows these to sell out somewhere between 1 and 10 times faster than if the limit was 1, and with a feeding frenzy I would bet that number is somewhere around 5 times.
I predict the Morgans will eventually be $50 coins like their older siblings, maybe that's unrealistic but I just can't see how they can hold value with so many out there. The Peace Dollar issue will probably hold value a little better since there aren't four variants, but still, 175K is a large number.
Your first paragraph explain why numerous US mint products (though a low minority) sell for prices which contradict what the item actually is as a collectible.
If it was predominantly collectors who bought and owned these coins, I believe you would be correct. Since it is evident to me that there is substantial financially motivated buying, it won't surprise me if it remains above issue price unless generic speculative behavior is reduced more generally.
Maybe the Mint should get out of the business of selling directly to the public and just sell its coins through dealers like they do with the bullion coins. There are lots of dealers, and it's very easy to buy a coin. Sure, it will cost more than buying through the Mint, but it would put the flippers out of business - which I guess is another advantage!
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@AlexinPA said:
"the planchets for these are already secured. they are something like .858 toz."
Then why the delay? So the US Mint's claim of a 'Silver Shortage' is deceitful?
They aren't claiming that they have a silver shortage. They're saying that global demand is crashing their website.
Then offer them "mail order" and only charge credit cards once purchase processes. More labor intensive but easily doable, unless their mailbox crashes.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@JeffM said:
Maybe the Mint should get out of the business of selling directly to the public and just sell its coins through dealers like they do with the bullion coins. There are lots of dealers, and it's very easy to buy a coin. Sure, it will cost more than buying through the Mint, but it would put the flippers out of business - which I guess is another advantage!
And how are they hurting you? They face the same buying limits that you do and have to jump through the same hoops to get mint products. Maybe jealousy that they are profiting from their capitalistic endeavor? Keep in mind many of your favorite go to dealers are also flippers. It's the mint's fault, not the buyer, that he is able to buy more than one coin.
Many a coin collection or a bullion stack are financed by flipper profit.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
@JeffM said:
Maybe the Mint should get out of the business of selling directly to the public and just sell its coins through dealers like they do with the bullion coins. There are lots of dealers, and it's very easy to buy a coin. Sure, it will cost more than buying through the Mint, but it would put the flippers out of business - which I guess is another advantage!
@JeffM said:
Maybe the Mint should get out of the business of selling directly to the public and just sell its coins through dealers like they do with the bullion coins. There are lots of dealers, and it's very easy to buy a coin. Sure, it will cost more than buying through the Mint, but it would put the flippers out of business - which I guess is another advantage!
Maybe the Mint should go back to focusing on regular coinage rather than fringe novelty items. I’d like to see all products discontinued except those that ship through the Federal Reserve System.
Alternatively, all products should be auctioned off in 1000 one coin lots at a time and let them go that way.
I believe there is more to the story than the mint website functionality. they never seem to care years prior with these crazy sell out releases and website shutdown, what changed with this order. I suspect that before the next group is released, the price will be raised, and hh limits will be reduced some more.
I did not see this posted in this topic but off there web site in bright red;
Due to the extraordinary volume of web traffic during the first pre-order window for the 2021 Morgan Dollars with Carson City privy mark (21XC) and New Orleans privy mark (21XD), we are postponing the pre-order windows for the remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace Dollars while improvements in web traffic management are implemented to enhance the customer experience. We will announce revised pre-order launch dates as soon as possible.
@coinbuf said:
how the mint operates and sticks it to the collectors.
Yeah, it's silly, isn't it? Taking advantage of collectors by making coins that they want to buy.
I think you misread what I posted, I am talking about the flippers that are gaming the mint system which shuts out the collectors that were trying to buy one directly from the mint. It would help if the mint would stop with all the silly games and artificial mintage limits, or at least improve the ordering system so it can handle the volume. My comment has nothing to do with the mint making a product that collectors want to buy, only that the distribution of those products is a very flawed system and has been for a very long time. And before you make the assumption, I am not and was not interested in these or any of the recent mint products so I was not one of the collectors that got shut out by the mint ordering system. I don't have to be involved with a problem to see that it is a problem.
Comments
They aren't claiming that they have a silver shortage. They're saying that global demand is crashing their website.
That is not true. The TV guys sell coins to people that never knew these things existed. Sometimes that hurts, other times it creates a new collector. When the print guys run full page ads, it makes people aware of coins.
But they already have all of the planchets needed for these coins!
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The best explanation of the apparent contradiction you described is that the buyers in large number (if not majority) don't really like what they are buying that much, not just for this coin, but all US Mint products.
Another option would be to hold an auction with HHL of one where anyone who wanted to pay enough would be guaranteed to buy it, keeping intact the "limited" mintage.
I have the sneaking suspicion that this with third option, many would still complain because the price would possibly (likely IMO) decline in the secondary market.
Your first paragraph explain why numerous US mint products (though a low minority) sell for prices which contradict what the item actually is as a collectible.
If it was predominantly collectors who bought and owned these coins, I believe you would be correct. Since it is evident to me that there is substantial financially motivated buying, it won't surprise me if it remains above issue price unless generic speculative behavior is reduced more generally.
Maybe the Mint should get out of the business of selling directly to the public and just sell its coins through dealers like they do with the bullion coins. There are lots of dealers, and it's very easy to buy a coin. Sure, it will cost more than buying through the Mint, but it would put the flippers out of business - which I guess is another advantage!
The government is not a business. The US Mint is trying to run like a business. Mix the two and you have a real mess.
You are spot on
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Then offer them "mail order" and only charge credit cards once purchase processes. More labor intensive but easily doable, unless their mailbox crashes.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
And how are they hurting you? They face the same buying limits that you do and have to jump through the same hoops to get mint products. Maybe jealousy that they are profiting from their capitalistic endeavor? Keep in mind many of your favorite go to dealers are also flippers. It's the mint's fault, not the buyer, that he is able to buy more than one coin.
Many a coin collection or a bullion stack are financed by flipper profit.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Umm... Many dealers are among the flippers.
Maybe the Mint should go back to focusing on regular coinage rather than fringe novelty items. I’d like to see all products discontinued except those that ship through the Federal Reserve System.
Alternatively, all products should be auctioned off in 1000 one coin lots at a time and let them go that way.
Delete
I believe there is more to the story than the mint website functionality. they never seem to care years prior with these crazy sell out releases and website shutdown, what changed with this order. I suspect that before the next group is released, the price will be raised, and hh limits will be reduced some more.
I did not see this posted in this topic but off there web site in bright red;
Due to the extraordinary volume of web traffic during the first pre-order window for the 2021 Morgan Dollars with Carson City privy mark (21XC) and New Orleans privy mark (21XD), we are postponing the pre-order windows for the remaining 2021 Morgan and Peace Dollars while improvements in web traffic management are implemented to enhance the customer experience. We will announce revised pre-order launch dates as soon as possible.
I for one am happily optimistic!😷
I think you misread what I posted, I am talking about the flippers that are gaming the mint system which shuts out the collectors that were trying to buy one directly from the mint. It would help if the mint would stop with all the silly games and artificial mintage limits, or at least improve the ordering system so it can handle the volume. My comment has nothing to do with the mint making a product that collectors want to buy, only that the distribution of those products is a very flawed system and has been for a very long time. And before you make the assumption, I am not and was not interested in these or any of the recent mint products so I was not one of the collectors that got shut out by the mint ordering system. I don't have to be involved with a problem to see that it is a problem.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
There have been more than 1 changes to their ordering IT to address “stressed ordering”
Each change did not remove the errors, it only changed the type of errors for those even changed
I have zero hope that they will fix anything
…what a bunch of pathetic losers…time for NY pizza