<< <i>Well, the story came out after Coin World had already been put to bed for this week. I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is. However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD >>
Apparently this guess was much closer to the truth.... TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I am beginning to suspect that the grading of 9 out of 10 of the double eagles and the encapsulation of 10 out of 10 by NGC at the request of the Secret Service (aka the government) may have been done unilaterally. The recent deletion of the NGC article on the submission of the 10 double eagles to it indicates to me that someone made a mistake by posting the NGC article on the NGS website.
Once this error was discovered, news of the article travelled fast (i.e. look at this thread). I suspect that telephone calls were made; complaints were voiced (maybe even shouted); higher ups took notice; quick decisions were made; the article was deleted from the NCG website; embarassment is manifesting itself on multiple faces behind closed doors; someone has been or will be reprimanded; if pushed in to making a public statement NCG will come up with some explanation approved in advance by the PR department; if pushed to make a statement the government and its lawyers will probably say "No Comment"; and if asked to make a statement the Langbord family and its attorneys will probably say something to the effect of "We ask the government to tell us what is going on".
BTW, CaptainHenway has a good point. Sometimes clients do things without telling their lawyers first; causing much ire and consternation among the lawyers since the client's conduct is hurtful to their case.
Also, CaptainHenway's "fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device" is a simply magnificent example of "prose" that conveys so much meaning and imagery in nine simple words.
<< <i>I am beginning to suspect that the grading of 9 out of 10 of the double eagles and the encapsulation of 10 out of 10 by NGC at the request of the Secret Service (aka the government) may have been done unilaterally. The recent deletion of the NGC article on the submission of the 10 double eagles to it indicates to me that someone made a mistake by posting the NGC article on the NGS website.
Once this error was discovered, news of the article travelled fast (i.e. look at this thread). I suspect that telephone calls were made; complaints were voiced (maybe even shouted); higher ups took notice; quick decisions were made; the article was deleted from the NCG website; embarassment is manifesting itself on multiple faces behind closed doors; someone has been or will be reprimanded; if pushed in to making a public statement NCG will come up with some explanation approved in advance by the PR department; if pushed to make a statement the government and its lawyers will probably say "No Comment"; and if asked to make a statement the Langbord family and its attorneys will probably say something to the effect of "We ask the government to tell us what is going on".
Yet another interesting twist to this case.
Will this thread top 200? >>
I don't think that NGC posted the story without permission. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
It might be useful to point out a couple of things. 1) Regardless of the Press Release’s statements, the Secret Service does not have custody over the 10 coins. 2) Further, the Secret Service does not have authority to authorize access to them or contract for anyone to provide any service relating to the coins. 3) There are a very limited number of Treasury officials who can independently authorize access to the Fort Knox Bullion Depository. These include: The Secretary and certain Assistant Secretaries, the Treasurer of the U.S. and, under certain circumstances, the Director of the Mint. Others include the President and Vice President, and the Chief of Staff (but normally only on the President’s instructions.) 4) Previous access to the 10 coins was provided for photographic purposes, which created a problem for Treasury because it was unclear about use of the images and they were publicly released without Treasury’s prior approval.
I will suggest that there are those within Treasury who feel this entire situation is detrimental to Treasury and to all concerned. As the public embarrassment factor increases, Treasury attorneys might be faced with being overruled by those of a more practical (and political) persuasion.
"....and thy right hand shall not know whatst thy left hand is doing. Amen"
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway >>
I( wonder if the Secret Service agent who authorized the slabbing and/or the release of the story about the slabbing has been transferred to Barrow, Alaska yet?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
I just saw the online Coin World for November 23rd. The NGC grading story is the top headline on page 1. I thank Beth Deisher for having the "guts" to publish this at this time. Lots of questions need to be answered, but Coin World asked them. Freedom of the Press is still alive. Steve
There was never any question that Coin World and Numismatic News and eventually the monthly magazines would carry this story. TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>There was never any question that Coin World and Numismatic News and eventually the monthly magazines would carry this story. TD >>
Tom, Sure, eventually. But I believe that Beth was under some pressure, either from NGC or from someone in the government NOT to publish the story while the litigation was still active. If that isn't so, I'd like to hear Beth tell us. Steve
I can hardly wait for the "official" explanation about how and why the NCG article was posted to its web site and then removed (assuming of course that one will be given by the powers that be).
Such an explanation will be good for a few more replies to this thread.
Only 37 more replies and the 200 barrier will be smashed
I AM SURPRISED NO ONE as mentioned the others. I know for certain there are at least a few other 1933 Saints from people who have seen them in hand. What seems to matter at this juncture is which coin will grade the highest so someone can be top dog in the Set Registry.
<< <i>I AM SURPRISED NO ONE as mentioned the others. I know for certain there are at least a few other 1933 Saints from people who have seen them in hand. What seems to matter at this juncture is which coin will grade the highest so someone can be top dog in the Set Registry.
Stewart >>
I'm assuming that's why the gov. added all of the unkown owners to the current trial.
<< <i>There was never any question that Coin World and Numismatic News and eventually the monthly magazines would carry this story. TD >>
Tom, Sure, eventually. But I believe that Beth was under some pressure, either from NGC or from someone in the government NOT to publish the story while the litigation was still active. If that isn't so, I'd like to hear Beth tell us. Steve >>
Why would the government put the litigation record in the public domain and then ask someone not to publish it? Makes no sense. If they wanted it quiet, it would have all been sealed from the beginning.
<< <i>I can hardly wait for the "official" explanation about how and why the NCG article was posted to its web site and then removed (assuming of course that one will be given by the powers that be).
Such an explanation will be good for a few more replies to this thread.
Only 37 more replies and the 200 barrier will be smashed >>
NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website. Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him. NGC did nothing wrong here.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website. Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him. NGC did nothing wrong here. >>
But if the story is true, wouldn't the "freedom of the press" protect them from prosecution or penalty for leaving it up?
<< <i>NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website. Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him. NGC did nothing wrong here. >>
But if the story is true, wouldn't the "freedom of the press" protect them from prosecution or penalty for leaving it up? >>
Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service? >>
When they put out press releases, both.
Do they really think they had to pull this in order to "save" a huge amount of future slabbing business from the government? >>
Maybe -- the gov't was their client, and if they want to keep that client, they probably did what the client asked them to do. >>
Wouldn't you? TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Well, the story came out after Coin World had already been put to bed for this week. I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is. However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD >>
Apparently this guess was much closer to the truth.... TD >>
I had forgotten all these juicy details about the slabbing of the "Langbord 10."
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@MrEureka said:
If I had 100 1933 Saints, I might turn 10 of them over to the government to see what happens...
Re-reading this thread and previously missed this gem! Makes me wonder how many of these and 1964-D Peace Dollars and 1974 aluminum cents would show up if the Government declared "amnesty" for currently "illegal" coins.
@specialist said:
awesome! if they smack on the bean, I will pay $7,500,000.00 for it. Even if it is NGC. try me. I need 3 of them. That is a real buy price too.
clearly they are inching towards a sale
I have four customers who will pay $5.5M without a bean. Two of them are also yours. And everyone knows there's only one 66 (so far - (talk to Frankie about his childhood)), so which two are you gonna piss off?
No, sorry, I checked. Since this late-breaking news first appeared (and please tell me what has substantively changed), two have died and one went broke. My best buddy Steve Ballmer tells me I am screwed and he will simply bid in the 2028 auction
"Richard Branson on line #3? Childs 1804 what? Wanna pay less than $7.5M? LOL, Dicky, you're not the only one."
Sorry, gotta go
The Kramer coin is the only 27-D graded below unc and hasn't hit a million yet. The highest prices for 27-D's in 66 and 67 are recorded as way under $3M. Do beaned 1933's in 65 bring $3M?
"Yes, Dicky, there's more than one 1804, and a crappy one (I factually once owned this) recently sold for under $2M."
"Yes, there certainly is more than one kind of Dick, your lordship. I'll low-ball them and tell them I'm representing a "Baron" I jokingly call "Sir Donald".
Oh, you intend to pay? "
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
<< <i>Well, the story came out after Coin World had already been put to bed for this week.
I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is.
However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD >>
Apparently this guess was much closer to the truth....
TD
Once this error was discovered, news of the article travelled fast (i.e. look at this thread). I suspect that telephone calls were made; complaints were voiced (maybe even shouted); higher ups took notice; quick decisions were made; the article was deleted from the NCG website; embarassment is manifesting itself on multiple faces behind closed doors; someone has been or will be reprimanded; if pushed in to making a public statement NCG will come up with some explanation approved in advance by the PR department; if pushed to make a statement the government and its lawyers will probably say "No Comment"; and if asked to make a statement the Langbord family and its attorneys will probably say something to the effect of "We ask the government to tell us what is going on".
Yet another interesting twist to this case.
Will this thread top 200?
Also, CaptainHenway's "fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device" is a simply magnificent example of "prose" that conveys so much meaning and imagery in nine simple words.
Bravo, Bravo, CaptainHenway.
<< <i>
Will this thread top 200? >>
Maybe?
<< <i>I am beginning to suspect that the grading of 9 out of 10 of the double eagles and the encapsulation of 10 out of 10 by NGC at the request of the Secret Service (aka the government) may have been done unilaterally. The recent deletion of the NGC article on the submission of the 10 double eagles to it indicates to me that someone made a mistake by posting the NGC article on the NGS website.
Once this error was discovered, news of the article travelled fast (i.e. look at this thread). I suspect that telephone calls were made; complaints were voiced (maybe even shouted); higher ups took notice; quick decisions were made; the article was deleted from the NCG website; embarassment is manifesting itself on multiple faces behind closed doors; someone has been or will be reprimanded; if pushed in to making a public statement NCG will come up with some explanation approved in advance by the PR department; if pushed to make a statement the government and its lawyers will probably say "No Comment"; and if asked to make a statement the Langbord family and its attorneys will probably say something to the effect of "We ask the government to tell us what is going on".
Yet another interesting twist to this case.
Will this thread top 200? >>
I don't think that NGC posted the story without permission.
TD
1) Regardless of the Press Release’s statements, the Secret Service does not have custody over the 10 coins.
2) Further, the Secret Service does not have authority to authorize access to them or contract for anyone to provide any service relating to the coins.
3) There are a very limited number of Treasury officials who can independently authorize access to the Fort Knox Bullion Depository. These include: The Secretary and certain Assistant Secretaries, the Treasurer of the U.S. and, under certain circumstances, the Director of the Mint. Others include the President and Vice President, and the Chief of Staff (but normally only on the President’s instructions.)
4) Previous access to the 10 coins was provided for photographic purposes, which created a problem for Treasury because it was unclear about use of the images and they were publicly released without Treasury’s prior approval.
I will suggest that there are those within Treasury who feel this entire situation is detrimental to Treasury and to all concerned. As the public embarrassment factor increases, Treasury attorneys might be faced with being overruled by those of a more practical (and political) persuasion.
Only a bunch of personal opinions….
<< <i>I am informed that the story was pulled at the request of a government official of higher rank than the person who gave NGC the OK to publicize it.
Don't ask for details.
Capt. Henway >>
I( wonder if the Secret Service agent who authorized the slabbing and/or the release of the story about the slabbing has been transferred to Barrow, Alaska yet?
I just saw the online Coin World for November 23rd. The NGC grading story is the top headline on page 1. I thank Beth Deisher for having the "guts" to publish this at this time. Lots of questions need to be answered, but Coin World asked them. Freedom of the Press is still alive.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
TD
<< <i>There was never any question that Coin World and Numismatic News and eventually the monthly magazines would carry this story.
TD >>
Tom,
Sure, eventually. But I believe that Beth was under some pressure, either from NGC or from someone in the government NOT to publish the story while the litigation was still active. If that isn't so, I'd like to hear Beth tell us.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
A Truth That's Told With Bad Intent
Beats All The Lies You Can Invent
<< <i>How about a link to the story? Or does one have to subscribe? >>
One has to subscribe. It's well worth the $9.95 for a years digital subscription.
Such an explanation will be good for a few more replies to this thread.
Only 37 more replies and the 200 barrier will be smashed
I AM SURPRISED NO ONE as mentioned the others. I know for certain there are at least a few other 1933 Saints from people who have seen them in hand. What seems to matter at this juncture is which coin will grade the highest so someone can be top dog in the Set Registry.
Stewart
<< <i>I AM SURPRISED NO ONE as mentioned the others. I know for certain there are at least a few other 1933 Saints from people who have seen them in hand. What seems to matter at this juncture is which coin will grade the highest so someone can be top dog in the Set Registry.
Stewart >>
I'm assuming that's why the gov. added all of the unkown owners to the current trial.
<< <i>What seems to matter at this juncture is which coin will grade the highest so someone can be top dog in the Set Registry.
Stewart >>
That all that matter to some people.
<< <i>
<< <i>There was never any question that Coin World and Numismatic News and eventually the monthly magazines would carry this story.
TD >>
Tom,
Sure, eventually. But I believe that Beth was under some pressure, either from NGC or from someone in the government NOT to publish the story while the litigation was still active. If that isn't so, I'd like to hear Beth tell us.
Steve
Why would the government put the litigation record in the public domain and then ask someone not to publish it? Makes no sense. If they wanted it quiet, it would have all been sealed from the beginning.
<< <i>
<< <i>How about a link to the story? Or does one have to subscribe? >>
One has to subscribe. It's well worth the $9.95 for a years digital subscription. >>
You now get the digital subscription free with ANA membership.
<< <i>I can hardly wait for the "official" explanation about how and why the NCG article was posted to its web site and then removed (assuming of course that one will be given by the powers that be).
Such an explanation will be good for a few more replies to this thread.
Only 37 more replies and the 200 barrier will be smashed
NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website.
Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him.
NGC did nothing wrong here.
<< <i>NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website.
Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him.
NGC did nothing wrong here. >>
But if the story is true, wouldn't the "freedom of the press" protect them from prosecution or penalty for leaving it up?
<< <i>
<< <i>NGC was given permission to publish the story on their website.
Somebody who outranked the permission giver then overruled him.
NGC did nothing wrong here. >>
But if the story is true, wouldn't the "freedom of the press" protect them from prosecution or penalty for leaving it up? >>
Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service?
<< <i>Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service? >>
When they put out press releases, both.
Do they really think they had to pull this in order to "save" a huge amount of future slabbing business from the government?
<< <i>
<< <i>Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service? >>
When they put out press releases, both.
Do they really think they had to pull this in order to "save" a huge amount of future slabbing business from the government? >>
Maybe -- the gov't was their client, and if they want to keep that client, they probably did what the client asked them to do.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is NGC a publisher, or an authentication and grading service? >>
When they put out press releases, both.
Do they really think they had to pull this in order to "save" a huge amount of future slabbing business from the government? >>
Maybe -- the gov't was their client, and if they want to keep that client, they probably did what the client asked them to do. >>
Wouldn't you?
TD
<< <i>
<< <i>Well, the story came out after Coin World had already been put to bed for this week.
I do not know what Numismatic News' deadline is.
However, I am sure that both will carry the story in the fullness of time.
That said, I wonder if the government lawyers fighting to steal the COINS from the Langbord's did not know about the slabbing before the fact, and if when they did find out about it the fecal file hit the proverbial rotary air propulsion device. The general concensus here seemed to me to imply that the certification helped the Langbord's case. When the lawyers found out, they may have demanded that all reference to the slabbing be put down Mr. Orwell's Memory Hole.
TD >>
Apparently this guess was much closer to the truth....
TD >>
I had forgotten all these juicy details about the slabbing of the "Langbord 10."
TD
Re-reading this thread and previously missed this gem! Makes me wonder how many of these and 1964-D Peace Dollars and 1974 aluminum cents would show up if the Government declared "amnesty" for currently "illegal" coins.
OLD THREAD ALERT!!!!
Yes, actually an extrememly old thread!!
BUT, a topic that will never die! Free the Langboard Saints!
awesome! if they smack on the bean, I will pay $7,500,000.00 for it. Even if it is NGC. try me. I need 3 of them. That is a real buy price too.
clearly they are inching towards a sale
I have four customers who will pay $5.5M without a bean. Two of them are also yours. And everyone knows there's only one 66 (so far - (talk to Frankie about his childhood)), so which two are you gonna piss off?
No, sorry, I checked. Since this late-breaking news first appeared (and please tell me what has substantively changed), two have died and one went broke. My best buddy Steve Ballmer tells me I am screwed and he will simply bid in the 2028 auction
"Richard Branson on line #3? Childs 1804 what? Wanna pay less than $7.5M? LOL, Dicky, you're not the only one."
Sorry, gotta go
The Kramer coin is the only 27-D graded below unc and hasn't hit a million yet. The highest prices for 27-D's in 66 and 67 are recorded as way under $3M. Do beaned 1933's in 65 bring $3M?
"Yes, Dicky, there's more than one 1804, and a crappy one (I factually once owned this) recently sold for under $2M."
"
"Yes, there certainly is more than one kind of Dick, your lordship. I'll low-ball them and tell them I'm representing a "Baron" I jokingly call "Sir Donald".
Oh, you intend to pay?
I doubt they would have agents observing the grading process...
"Yo, that better get a 67 or I can't guarantee your safety"