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no more crack & resub?
blurryface
Posts: 5,136 ✭✭✭✭✭
blew the first instance i heard of this off a month or so ago. just heard of a second case from an unrelated & very credible source.
apparently two separate high value crack outs were denied from being regraded and the old cert number was requested for confirmation so it could get re-encapsulated with the og cert number. it would then be charged for said reholdering or be returned as raw.
considering they are auto-imaging anything over the $200 level, ai auto-i'd'ing being fairly cheap and easy, this very well could be a real possibility.
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If that is the case, I suppose a work-around would be to either crack & resub or crossover to SGC, and then send SGC slabbed card back to PSA. That would probably take about 2.5 years to do though.
Good, instead of probing the company for a weak grader and diluting the pop report. Go find a better card or have it reviewed in the holder it was already assigned.
Crack is bad
Unless otherwise specified my posts represent only my opinion, not fact.
yes, 1 opinion should define something forever.
This idea was dead to me anyway with current situation. I have hundreds I have cracked over the years with bumps of up to two grades due to an over zealous grader who wrecked entire subs
A point worth reminding on this is that as we all know, many of the PSA-graded cards were subbed prior to their availability of half-grades.
Instead of cracking and resubmitting. Wouldn't it be worth a try to demand PSA hold their graders to some universal standard? If a card I paid to be graded was reviewed while still in their "PSA" case and deemed to have been under graded. Wouldn't it be logical that the grader was held accountable? And wouldn't also be logical that I should not have to pay for that correction? I do not have a set in the registry and I do not hold low POP PSA cards. But if people want PSA to remain the gold standard. Why not call out the abuses and offer advice for correction? What do y'all really want? A company that for enough money will give you the grade and resell value you desire? Or a more accurate account of the true number of unique cards submitted for grading and a reasonable estimation of the rarity of a certain grade?
Is it PSAs POP report, set registry, or higher standard of grading that makes them the current gold standard? I say it is all of those. And all are being effected negatively by CRACKING and re-submitting.
Blurry I feel you misquoted or mismocked me. I never implied a card should never be re-evaluated. I was implying exactly what I said and nothing more " Go find a better card or have it reviewed in the holder it was already assigned."
Maybe they already do this. I don't really know the grading process. Maybe it would slow down the process even more. But why don't they do a double-blind grading system?
Grader 1 grades a card.
Grader 2 grades the same card without knowing the original grade.
If they match, slab it.
If they don't, a more senior Grader 3 blind-reviews it. If their grade matches one of the others, you go with that.
That way you get around one grader having a bad day, and you also provide valuable feedback to the odd-man-out grader, so they learn.
i don't believe i did. reviewing a card while in its own holder automatically allows one to judge a book by its cover versus the cards merits. reviewing one in the competitions holder allows for even more bias.
people make mistakes all the times. both ways. one cards value swing should not be dictated to one $15/hour grader and whether he is having a good day or bad day.
and keep in mind, the crack and resub game NEVER ensured a bump in grade, or even retaining the same grade. there's many of occasions where it's came back a lower grade. and for the ones that i have come back in a lower grade, does this mean i should dig out the old cert and tell them to reholder it back to its original grade?
finally, i think you are a lil biased here after yesterday's "i'm officially fed up" post on upcharges. not being mean or mocking, just my observations.
Are you saying someone cracked out a high dollar card like a 1952 mantle psa 4 hoping to get a 5(just random thought example). Or a serial numbered high dollar card. And they noticed they had graded it before and asked the sender for the label back? Wow. What happens then if someone buys a 1986 Fleer Jordan sticker PSA 9 st and removed the wax? Are they going to grade it then? Or is that now altered stock or something? Interesting
original one was a modern serial numbered $50kish card. the more recent was a vintage hof rc.
There are only 2 reasons to outlaw crack-and-resubmit:
The first one is (kinda) an understandable reason. The second one isn't.
another scenario: what if it's a modern card that has a finger print? or an 86 jordan sticker w the slightest bit of wax that could be removed? should the fact that the previous subber made a sloppy sub or is as blind as a bat reduce that card to a psa 7 forever?
eta: again, i'm not mocking you. rather asking you to think thru the ramifications of something like this in its entirety. to me it sounds good on paper, but...
If this matching helps PSA detect even one trimmed card, the benefit outweighs any downside.
or take a dirty oc 7, clean it up. make it look sharp and resub it knowing it gets an auto 7 again BUT now qualifies for the pwcc top 15% eye appeal sticker?
Agree. But it seems a lot of these trimmed cards are being bought raw first and then trimmed? It would just make the trimmers never buy a PSA card i would think.
Any raw card could be a crack-out.
don't get me wrong, i love the idea that they are using previous scans against new submissions. but it can also prohibit and encourage certain activities too. scammers gonna scam. each card should be taken at its current merits. resubbing a card does not equate to it remaining in its previous subbed condition, for better or for worse.
Couple of thoughts here. First, I'm the opposite of a conspiracy theorist but it seems to me that it's in PSA's best interest to tighten and loosen their grading standards strategically to stimulate those out there with the "regrade for profit" mindset every few years. Wouldn't surprise me if 2023 was the year of the easy 10s, and then they're back to over capacity in 2024. In fact, they don't even have to ACTUALLY change their standards, they only need to generate that perception in the hobby.
Other thought after reading the thread... I always thought the natural end result of this business was an elite service to fully microscan and "fingerprint" a card for the purpose of stack ranking it against others under that service. The idea being we want to identify THE BEST COPY via some sort of objective scale. The most competitive investor dudebros would love that. I can definitely see it devolving into something like "PSA 10, huh? Big deal? Is it fingerprinted yet? Jump in the arena and get it ranked or eff of with your lousy gem mint copy."
I don't get how they can say that about that vintage hof rc. How can you tell for certain that it was a card that was graded. A serial # card you can definitively ID. Not sure why that would make it exempt from regrading? PSA has made a lot of money of me cracking out and resubbing. Whats to say someone buys a graded card but cracks it out for their PC or set and down the road wants to have it graded to sell or sells it to someone else who resends it in? I am calling BS that it can be id'd and an original cert requested. Once that holder is opened that grade in no longer valid.
I have been watching the PWCC eye appeal program and it's a dramatic increase in prices realized. Here are two recent Bird stickers:
1986 Fleer Sticker Larry Bird #2 PSA 9 MINT (PWCC-E) $860:
https://ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Sticker-Larry-Bird-2-PSA-9-MINT-PWCC-E-/224397314259?nma=true&si=eMtaB%252B0NYfmA%252BF6lty66E0i3zFQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
1986 Fleer Sticker Larry Bird #2 PSA 9 MINT $561:
https://ebay.com/itm/1986-Fleer-Sticker-Larry-Bird-2-PSA-9-MINT-/224393680471?nma=true&si=eMtaB%252B0NYfmA%252BF6lty66E0i3zFQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
What about reviews? Is PSA still reviewing previously graded cards? Not cracked out of course...
i'm sure they wouldn't turn down reviews. better not. i'm going for the nicklaus ten. got about 4 years invested in purchasing and subbing to get nines!
That'll just be a waste of money. They won't admit they were wrong on previously graded PSA cards, and they'll grade other company's cards harder (like they already do).
I have had a few successes in the past with PSA reviews (not cracked out, of course) from an 8.5 to a 9 on RC vintage cards and an 8 to an 8.5 on another vintage RC. Considering the backlog now...I wouldn't want to weigh them down with a review. Not likely to be in a good mood for redoing work at the moment.
i've had tremendous success reviewing and bumping cards. there's an art form to it for sure. certainly takes time and patience too.