@JRocco said:
That obverse die crack does match known examples.
I say it's the real deal. And a nice example too.
That obverse die crack jumped out at me as well, I am glad that it is a known marker.
I'm still on the first page, but I will agree with what I assume are dozens of others vouching for Mark Feld, you would be wise to accept his offer of assistance.
Sean Reynolds
Incomplete planchets wanted, especially Lincoln Cents & type coins.
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
now would you all suggest sending it to an auction house and let them get it graded or grade it then send it to an auction house?
The OP says it’s a family heirloom so I doubt that he would want to sell it. I could be wrong though.
Due to Governor Wolf's covid closers ruining my business and my life I am in some financial hardship... Its for sale.
If you are looking to sell it, the easiest route is to have the auction house get it graded and then put it in an auction for you. However if you don't want to ship it, maybe Stack's in NY? If Heritage is passing through, they could maybe pick it up. @MFeld might put you in touch with them.
I don't know that GC will pick up anything on the East Coast for such a small consignment. But @ianrussell can advise.
Heritage has an office in NYC.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Having it be something that has been in your family for 75 years and multiple generations adds to the appeal of the coin. Great advice in this thread on how to proceed. Grading the coin will provide great benefit to you, whether you keep the coin or sell it.
Best wishes to you on what ever you choose to do.
If this coin is a family heirloom, make sure you investigate all things connected to your family to determine if there are other similar coins stashed somewhere in the family. You never, never, never know.
@Two_Bit_Tommy Care to share the story behind the coin, I.e. how it came to be possessed by your family for the past 75 years/where it originally came from? I find these kind of details fascinating.
I'm a bit late to the party but I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Makes me sad when things like this happen but hopefully it will help your financial situation and the coin will go into a well-appreciated collection.
But man, what a coin to have as an heirloom. Beats the mirror polished peace dollar my dad left me by a thousand miles. Wishing you the best.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
By the way, @Two_Bit_Tommy. 1804 in general, as a date is very famous in US Numismatics. The most famous coin of them all is the 1804 silver dollar. Entire books have been written just on that one coin. Here is the "King of Siam" proof set and you can see the 1804 Dollar residing in there.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Pnies20 said:
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
So all coins that are similar sell for the same price whenever they're auctioned?
@MFeld said:
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Cool coin! Early federal US gold is fascinating (and valuable). Most of the advice here is great. Please don't try to clean or improve it in any way. Handle it only by the edges.
There are many, many possible avenues to turn this into cash. The most labor-intensive and slowest options will probably give you the greatest return. The quickest option will probably net you the least amount, but puts cash in your pocket quickly.
There are several dealers who would likely be able to make you an immediate cash offer. Doug Winter in Oregon specializes in early gold and I think he'd love a chance at this. John Agre in Boston, David Kahn in Maryland, and Harry Laibstain in Norfolk are also a great options.
Keep in mind, selling it raw, outright to a dealer puts all the risk on them, and they'll pay you less accordingly. They need to make a profit on it when they sell it too, which is only reasonable. If you work with a dealer, maintain ownership, have them send it to PCGS and CAC, and it comes back with a favorable grade, you'll end up with more, but that process will take a couple months. If you do all of the legwork yourself, and sell it privately, you might end up with the most, but it will take a bit of work to learn how to do it properly and it will take several months.
You can work with a major auction house, and they're perfectly equipped to get it graded, photographed, advertised, and sold, but you'll be 3-4 months before you get the money, and they take what is (to me) surprisingly large cut.
As a final option, you can consider selling it here, on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum but I'd strongly recommend having it graded by PCGS first. There are many of us that are immensely attracted to coins with this look in this condition.
Also, don't worry about your information getting out. Most people who deal in tangible assets feel exactly as you do concerning privacy issues. Almost every legitimate actor in the hobby does business with a reasonable (and legal) amount of discretion.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Why the heck am I even going through the time to say this. It’s obviously a valid way to sell a coin.... 🤦♂️
@Two_Bit_Tommy said:
Ya know, just thinking out loud here, if I send my coin to PCGS or one of these registries for grading, then it will be "registered" and the whole world including the GOVERNMENT will know I own it. Right? Please excuse me for having reservations but I'm not exactly overly thrilled with my government and everything it is doing right now and the thought of them knowing I own a precious gold half eagle doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies... Hell then if I sold it I would probably have to pay capital gains or some such crap! F-THAT!!!
I guess i see the point about paying taxes twice on something one purchased but I don’t think I’ll need a tissue for some kid who inherited something and wants simply to sell it even though his other family members had resisted the windfall the previous 75 years. But nice things fall out of weak hands so I get it.
If you don’t want to pay tax go get fleeced at a pawn store and then feel like a hypocrite as you drive home on your tax payer funded road network.
@Pnies20 said:
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
So all coins that are similar sell for the same price whenever they're auctioned?
@MFeld said:
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
What he said.
That’s incredibly deceptive.
“You have to sell your coin at auction because otherwise how will we know what you should be paid!”
@MsMorrisine said:
there will be a certification number on the label. no name will show on the lookup.
Well I'm not paying Taxes on the sale of my grandmothers wedding coin... I will tell you that right now! I think I will get one of the coin cases you suggested and back into the safe it goes...
I would still get it graded. Pcgs is not hooked into the feds, so no one but you will know you have it. But if you sell (anywhere) it will likely be for enough money that it will generate a paper trail.
@Eldorado9 said:
By the way, @Two_Bit_Tommy. 1804 in general, as a date is very famous in US Numismatics. The most famous coin of them all is the 1804 silver dollar. Entire books have been written just on that one coin. Here is the "King of Siam" proof set and you can see the 1804 Dollar residing in there.
I love this image. Is that a photo of the case with images of the graded coins from the same set cropped into it?
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Your example takes it as a given that the coin will sell for $10,000 at auction. There’s no way to know that. It could easily sell for several hundred more or less. And in this case, the coin hasn’t even been graded yet. What if it grades 55? Or 53? Or 50? Or it receives a details grade?
You’ve posted here about bidding on coins in auction. Surely you know that you don’t know precisely what they’ll end up selling for. And you’re bidding on graded coins. Try predicting selling prices of ungraded ones.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I am not an accountant but I believe if you live in PA you owe 4.5% tax on the coin just for receiving it. You will not owe anything else when you sell it unless the value appreciates given the step-up in cost basis upon death.
Either way, you have an amazing coin and a remarkable piece of history. As others have mentioned you should have the coin graded. Whether to sell at auction, to a dealer, or privately comes after that (unless one of the first two entities submits it for you).
If you dislike the governor so much you could go over to Maryland or New Jersey and sell it.
Look I'm just saying the government is not getting one red cent of the proceeds of my grandmother WEDDING COIN should I sell it. Surely you can understand that. I'm very tired and I'm going to bed. Thanks again everyone...
I think the government prefers brown cents these days. At least that’s what the cool kids are into here. BN is the new RD!
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Your example takes it as a given that the coin will sell for $10,000 at auction. There’s no way to know that. It could easily sell for several hundred more or less. And in this case, the coin hasn’t even been graded yet. What if it grades 55? Or 53? Or 50? Or it receives a details grade?
You’ve posted here about bidding on coins in auction. Surely you know that you don’t know precisely what they’ll end up selling for. And you’re bidding on graded coins. Try predicting selling prices of ungraded ones.
Yes I watch every auction heritage has for bust halves even if I’m not bidding. I’ve found that Unless there is an outlying factor such as outrageous toning or gold cac etc. I’m pretty darn close.
Sure the grade of a raw coin could be a factor. Doesn’t change the fact you could have the dealer get it graded for you and then sell it to them. Which I’ve also done.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Your example takes it as a given that the coin will sell for $10,000 at auction. There’s no way to know that. It could easily sell for several hundred more or less. And in this case, the coin hasn’t even been graded yet. What if it grades 55? Or 53? Or 50? Or it receives a details grade?
You’ve posted here about bidding on coins in auction. Surely you know that you don’t know precisely what they’ll end up selling for. And you’re bidding on graded coins. Try predicting selling prices of ungraded ones.
Yes I watch every auction heritage has for bust halves even if I’m not bidding. I’ve found that Unless there is an outlying factor such as outrageous toning or gold cac etc. I’m pretty darn close.
Sure the grade of a raw coin could be a factor. Doesn’t change the fact you could have the dealer get it graded for you and then sell it to them. Which I’ve also done.
“Pretty darn close” in terms of percentage could be several hundred dollars difference for this particular coin. However, getting it graded first and then reaching a deal would be much more fair than completing a transaction prior to grading.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Pnies20 said:
A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction and it would be instant cash.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
Your example takes it as a given that the coin will sell for $10,000 at auction. There’s no way to know that. It could easily sell for several hundred more or less. And in this case, the coin hasn’t even been graded yet. What if it grades 55? Or 53? Or 50? Or it receives a details grade?
You’ve posted here about bidding on coins in auction. Surely you know that you don’t know precisely what they’ll end up selling for. And you’re bidding on graded coins. Try predicting selling prices of ungraded ones.
Yes I watch every auction heritage has for bust halves even if I’m not bidding. I’ve found that Unless there is an outlying factor such as outrageous toning or gold cac etc. I’m pretty darn close.
Sure the grade of a raw coin could be a factor. Doesn’t change the fact you could have the dealer get it graded for you and then sell it to them. Which I’ve also done.
“Pretty darn close” in terms of percentage could be several hundred dollars difference for this particular coin. However, getting it graded first and then reaching a deal would be much more fair than completing a transaction prior to grading.
I agree with everything stated here. Is that few hundred dollars difference worth the several month wait? That was my original statement.
Grading and selling a coin like this, even if the grade warrants $10k, is still relative peanuts with no government tracking. You have a GREAT looking gold coin, but you’re over thinking it
Tom, in this very rare case, I largely disagree. I think that Two_Bit_Tommy has received excellent feedback from several posters and has been made aware of multiple viable options.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you need the money, you should be able to find someone willing to pay $8000 when authenticated. Could get $10,000+ in auction, but the net would be pretty close to the 8K
“You have to sell your coin at auction because otherwise how will we know what you should be paid!”
You said:
"A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction..."
In order to figure that small percentage, similar coins would need to all sell for the same amount at auction. Do you think that they do?
Of course not but there is always a reason for outliers. Was the coin up for auction a rare variety that wasn’t listed? Were 2 rival buyers with a ridiculous amount of money to spend fighting over a coin? Was the market up or down significantly during the time of the auction? Toning? CAC? Undergraded?
In my scenario It boils Down to if you feel comfortable selling your coin for the price quoted by the dealer knowing all the variables and doing the research.
If 5 coins of the same grade all sold for between 10 and 11k but one sold for 15k. Do you feel comfortable selling for 10k? Find out why the one sold 15k and evaluate.
@jclovescoins said:
If you need the money, you should be able to find someone willing to pay $8000 when authenticated. Could get $10,000+ in auction, but the net would be pretty close to the 8K
If you’ve got the time and want the experience, auction would be a good choice. @MFeld is a standup, honest guy and has made things right for me personally on multiple occasions.
If you need money ASAP use a dealer that these folks would recommend.
Whatever you do, do your research, you already know the variety. Getting it graded By PCGS would be great to have peace of mind about authenticity and grade. Research previous auctions. Be comfortable with the price you get.
Comments
That obverse die crack jumped out at me as well, I am glad that it is a known marker.
I'm still on the first page, but I will agree with what I assume are dozens of others vouching for Mark Feld, you would be wise to accept his offer of assistance.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Heritage has an office in NYC.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Until an auction is held, the amount it would sell for isn't known. How would a reputable dealer figure a small percentage of an unknown number?
Welcome to the forums.
Your half eagle is a great early US gold coin.
Having it be something that has been in your family for 75 years and multiple generations adds to the appeal of the coin. Great advice in this thread on how to proceed. Grading the coin will provide great benefit to you, whether you keep the coin or sell it.
Best wishes to you on what ever you choose to do.
If this coin is a family heirloom, make sure you investigate all things connected to your family to determine if there are other similar coins stashed somewhere in the family. You never, never, never know.
Not super knowledgeable on these, but wow that is amazing!
Jb-rarities.com
IG: jb_rarities
well.... been hoping for a flood of replies before this... here goes...
some have suggested a PM to Mfeld Re: local dealers. But he has another fame. he works at one of the auction houses - heritage
we have ian russell, he owns and runs great collections
they almost never stop by but stacks is a major coin auctioneer
another one we know but don't have stopping in is the Legend auctions a/k/a/ Legend's Regency auctions.
$$ insurance value for registered mail ??
We auctioned the below PCGS AU55 example for $10,500 last month. I’d recommend an insurance value of approximately $12,000 to play it safe.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/early-half-eagles/half-eagles/1804-5-small-over-large-8-bd-7-r4-au55-pcgs-pcgs-519897-/a/1326-4629.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/25mm-AIR-TITE-COIN-HOLDER-WITH-BLACK-RING/293048786937
don't put fingerprints on the coin. handle it by the edges only.
I'm a bit late to the party but I'm sorry to hear about your misfortunes. Makes me sad when things like this happen but hopefully it will help your financial situation and the coin will go into a well-appreciated collection.
But man, what a coin to have as an heirloom. Beats the mirror polished peace dollar my dad left me by a thousand miles. Wishing you the best.
My eBay page: https://www.ebay.com/usr/alvareznumismatics
This is a good resource: You can see some general values, and info on your coin.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1804-5-small-8/8085
So all coins have to go to auction before a value is determined?
An 1804 half eagle has never sold at auction before?
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I believe his point was, that while people can come up with estimated auction prices, it would be next to impossible to be so precise as to meet your “SHOULD” quoted below. Especially for a coin of this type, that hasn’t even be graded, yet.
“ A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Eastern or western PA?
The goal isn’t precise in private treaty. It would be sacrificing max auction price for lots of time and a middle man taking their share.
Not saying one is good and one is bad. Just definitely benefits to both.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
By the way, @Two_Bit_Tommy. 1804 in general, as a date is very famous in US Numismatics. The most famous coin of them all is the 1804 silver dollar. Entire books have been written just on that one coin. Here is the "King of Siam" proof set and you can see the 1804 Dollar residing in there.
I guess I don’t understand, then. To me, saying “A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction” is requiring the dealer to be exceptionally precise. What would a “small percentage” be and how could the dealer know what “he would get at auction”? In answer to that question, the dealer couldn’t know. And requiring even the fairest and sharpest dealer to guess, almost guarantees that one party will end up with a very bad deal and the other, a very good one.
A much more equitable arrangement FOR BOTH PARTIES would be an agreement on a fee to the dealer, based on a percentage of the net proceeds from the auction. And for the dealer to advance funds of X amount to the coin’s owner, with that amount being deducted from the net sale proceeds.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
What does the outside edge look like? I believe these were broadstruck, but this one looks like it was in a collar as per the obverse rim.
So all coins that are similar sell for the same price whenever they're auctioned?
What he said.
How is it more equitable when you end up with nearly the same amount of profit minus the time spent.
Say I sell a coin using auction house A for $10,000. They take 7% that’s $700. Plus time to get graded and any other fees involved. Ends up being 3 months later that the coin is sold.
OR
I sell to dealer A, whom I’ve been told is an upstanding guy, and He gives me $9,000 for the same raw coin on the spot. He knows what recent auction prices for PCGS graded coins are and could sell to a client for a 10% profit.
This isn’t spoken in a vacuum. Probably everyone here has done exactly this.
Again as they say in my business, all of these are A WAY not THE WAY. It also assumes you have a dealer you trust or an auction house that you want to give your business.
I’d rather sell the coin for immediate cash that would be similar to what I would get at auction anyways.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
there will be a certification number on the label. no name will show on the lookup.
Cool coin! Early federal US gold is fascinating (and valuable). Most of the advice here is great. Please don't try to clean or improve it in any way. Handle it only by the edges.
There are many, many possible avenues to turn this into cash. The most labor-intensive and slowest options will probably give you the greatest return. The quickest option will probably net you the least amount, but puts cash in your pocket quickly.
There are several dealers who would likely be able to make you an immediate cash offer. Doug Winter in Oregon specializes in early gold and I think he'd love a chance at this. John Agre in Boston, David Kahn in Maryland, and Harry Laibstain in Norfolk are also a great options.
Keep in mind, selling it raw, outright to a dealer puts all the risk on them, and they'll pay you less accordingly. They need to make a profit on it when they sell it too, which is only reasonable. If you work with a dealer, maintain ownership, have them send it to PCGS and CAC, and it comes back with a favorable grade, you'll end up with more, but that process will take a couple months. If you do all of the legwork yourself, and sell it privately, you might end up with the most, but it will take a bit of work to learn how to do it properly and it will take several months.
You can work with a major auction house, and they're perfectly equipped to get it graded, photographed, advertised, and sold, but you'll be 3-4 months before you get the money, and they take what is (to me) surprisingly large cut.
As a final option, you can consider selling it here, on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum but I'd strongly recommend having it graded by PCGS first. There are many of us that are immensely attracted to coins with this look in this condition.
Also, don't worry about your information getting out. Most people who deal in tangible assets feel exactly as you do concerning privacy issues. Almost every legitimate actor in the hobby does business with a reasonable (and legal) amount of discretion.
Why the heck am I even going through the time to say this. It’s obviously a valid way to sell a coin.... 🤦♂️
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
I guess i see the point about paying taxes twice on something one purchased but I don’t think I’ll need a tissue for some kid who inherited something and wants simply to sell it even though his other family members had resisted the windfall the previous 75 years. But nice things fall out of weak hands so I get it.
If you don’t want to pay tax go get fleeced at a pawn store and then feel like a hypocrite as you drive home on your tax payer funded road network.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
That’s incredibly deceptive.
“You have to sell your coin at auction because otherwise how will we know what you should be paid!”
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
And remember, when it > @Two_Bit_Tommy said:
I would still get it graded. Pcgs is not hooked into the feds, so no one but you will know you have it. But if you sell (anywhere) it will likely be for enough money that it will generate a paper trail.
I love this image. Is that a photo of the case with images of the graded coins from the same set cropped into it?
If you dislike the governor so much you could go over to Maryland or New Jersey and sell it.
Your example takes it as a given that the coin will sell for $10,000 at auction. There’s no way to know that. It could easily sell for several hundred more or less. And in this case, the coin hasn’t even been graded yet. What if it grades 55? Or 53? Or 50? Or it receives a details grade?
You’ve posted here about bidding on coins in auction. Surely you know that you don’t know precisely what they’ll end up selling for. And you’re bidding on graded coins. Try predicting selling prices of ungraded ones.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You said:
"A reputable dealer SHOULD give him just a small percentage less than he would get at auction..."
In order to figure that small percentage, similar coins would need to all sell for the same amount at auction. Do you think that they do?
I am not an accountant but I believe if you live in PA you owe 4.5% tax on the coin just for receiving it. You will not owe anything else when you sell it unless the value appreciates given the step-up in cost basis upon death.
https://www.revenue.pa.gov/GeneralTaxInformation/Tax Types and Information/InheritanceTax/Pages/default.aspx
Either way, you have an amazing coin and a remarkable piece of history. As others have mentioned you should have the coin graded. Whether to sell at auction, to a dealer, or privately comes after that (unless one of the first two entities submits it for you).
I think the government prefers brown cents these days. At least that’s what the cool kids are into here. BN is the new RD!
Yes I watch every auction heritage has for bust halves even if I’m not bidding. I’ve found that Unless there is an outlying factor such as outrageous toning or gold cac etc. I’m pretty darn close.
Sure the grade of a raw coin could be a factor. Doesn’t change the fact you could have the dealer get it graded for you and then sell it to them. Which I’ve also done.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
“Pretty darn close” in terms of percentage could be several hundred dollars difference for this particular coin. However, getting it graded first and then reaching a deal would be much more fair than completing a transaction prior to grading.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I agree with everything stated here. Is that few hundred dollars difference worth the several month wait? That was my original statement.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Grading and selling a coin like this, even if the grade warrants $10k, is still relative peanuts with no government tracking. You have a GREAT looking gold coin, but you’re over thinking it
Tom, in this very rare case, I largely disagree. I think that Two_Bit_Tommy has received excellent feedback from several posters and has been made aware of multiple viable options.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
If you need the money, you should be able to find someone willing to pay $8000 when authenticated. Could get $10,000+ in auction, but the net would be pretty close to the 8K
Of course not but there is always a reason for outliers. Was the coin up for auction a rare variety that wasn’t listed? Were 2 rival buyers with a ridiculous amount of money to spend fighting over a coin? Was the market up or down significantly during the time of the auction? Toning? CAC? Undergraded?
In my scenario It boils Down to if you feel comfortable selling your coin for the price quoted by the dealer knowing all the variables and doing the research.
If 5 coins of the same grade all sold for between 10 and 11k but one sold for 15k. Do you feel comfortable selling for 10k? Find out why the one sold 15k and evaluate.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
where are you getting those numbers?
you two need to drop it before a NOT a parking lot find thread gets locked before a IS a parking lot find thread does not.
To summarize for me anyways:
If you’ve got the time and want the experience, auction would be a good choice. @MFeld is a standup, honest guy and has made things right for me personally on multiple occasions.
If you need money ASAP use a dealer that these folks would recommend.
Whatever you do, do your research, you already know the variety. Getting it graded By PCGS would be great to have peace of mind about authenticity and grade. Research previous auctions. Be comfortable with the price you get.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.