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Collector's Universe has been sold?

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  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 26,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020 2:59PM

    @bidask said:

    @291fifth said:
    It will be interesting to see what plays out. I have to wonder if the real beneficiary in the end will be their competition.

    Could be ......NGC could be a winner :)

    Let's give the PCGS and the board the benefit of the doubt. They've done a good job so far.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    On a fundamental basis PCGS has provided a great service, and value to the collector community. PCGS has an established reputation of service and expertise. I think it naeive to think that new ownership will maintain the same level of quality assessment.

    But there was a day when ALL coins were RAW........and collectors made critical purchasing decisions.

    PCGS is a grading standard, and hopefully it will remain so, regardless of ownership.

    Collector's Universe is much more than just PCGS. The buyers may have their eye on areas like sports cards much more than coins.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • Yes my sports memorabilia friend told me about the surging growth in sports card and memorabilia grading at CLCT. Economy submission = 10 months delay due to backlog!?! I have also seen 3 or 4 stories on a business channel where they have shown the big price increases in even "modern" sports cards grabbing big values in auction over the past 3 months...

    ** TexasAKHouston **
    Successful BST transactions with: PerryHall, wondercoin, gowithmygut
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Something tells me my stockpile of 1980s and some 1990s sports cards wouldn't be worth much more if they were slabbed. The better ones have been in protective plastic since I first pulled them out. But paying big $$$ and waiting a year to see the results.... yikes.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 16,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 26,541 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 5, 2020 12:43PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

    I never took it to mean that.

    Do you think PCGS been bumping grades on all coins?

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 16,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

    I never took it to mean that.

    Do you think PCGS been bumping grades on all coins?

    No, I don't.

    The original post I was replying to had said that the new owners might want to boost revenue by realizing the advantage of upgrades. The wrote, that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. Now, maybe they didn't mean grade inflation as actual grade inflation, but I took it to mean that.

    A grade reassignment where a legitimate MS65 that was mistakenly in an MS64 holder is not grade inflation. [To my mind.] A new MS65 that was in an old MS64 holder because standards have changed is grade inflation. [To my mind.]

    I don't think PCGS would do that (new or old ownership) because their perception of value-added is based upon their strict standards. Some of their older competitors (PCI comes to mind) tried it to garner market share - customers are happier if they get the higher number - but ended up trashing their brand and their business.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 26,541 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @TexasAKHouston said:
    Yes my sports memorabilia friend told me about the surging growth in sports card and memorabilia grading at CLCT. Economy submission = 10 months delay due to backlog!?! I have also seen 3 or 4 stories on a business channel where they have shown the big price increases in even "modern" sports cards grabbing big values in auction over the past 3 months...

    I used to collect sports cards when I was a kid. Wonder if I'm missing out by focusing on coins now!

  • amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 8,969 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The thing I've seen that upsets me is they seem to be grading coins now that would not pass muster a few years ago. I'm seeing scratches, damage, and cleaned coins get a problem free grade in the Barber half series that I focus on.

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

    I never took it to mean that.

    Do you think PCGS been bumping grades on all coins?

  • MgarmyMgarmy Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not on mine😂

    Time for Darwin to give the gene pool an enema.
    One more ASE till done!

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:

    @TexasAKHouston said:
    Yes my sports memorabilia friend told me about the surging growth in sports card and memorabilia grading at CLCT. Economy submission = 10 months delay due to backlog!?! I have also seen 3 or 4 stories on a business channel where they have shown the big price increases in even "modern" sports cards grabbing big values in auction over the past 3 months...

    I used to collect sports cards when I was a kid. Wonder if I'm missing out by focusing on coins now!

    The sports card bubble last burst in the early 1990's. Don't be surprised if the same thing doesn't happen again in the near future.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 16,996 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @amwldcoin said:
    The thing I've seen that upsets me is they seem to be grading coins now that would not pass muster a few years ago. I'm seeing scratches, damage, and cleaned coins get a problem free grade in the Barber half series that I focus on.

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

    I never took it to mean that.

    Do you think PCGS been bumping grades on all coins?

    @amwldcoin said:
    The thing I've seen that upsets me is they seem to be grading coins now that would not pass muster a few years ago. I'm seeing scratches, damage, and cleaned coins get a problem free grade in the Barber half series that I focus on.

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Zoins said:

    @MetroD said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    CU's business model seems to be a service related business. They charge prescribed fees to grade coins and other collectables for a fixed fee. I forsee that they perceive that grading fees are under valued and that they can share in the upside of grade inflation based upon price differential on grade reassignments. This will not be a stabilizing event for collectors.

    OINK

    PCGS already does this, to some extent, on "regrade" and "reconsideration" via the "1% GP".

    "If your coin upgrades, you will be charged an additional 1% of the final value of the coin in its final grade, this is referred to as the Guarantee Premium (the GP 1% would be in addition to the basic service level you select). If your coin does not upgrade, you will be charged the simple basic service level fee and any other fees applicable to your submission."
    Source: FAQ > "What are the fees associated with the Reconsideration program?" @ https://www.pcgs.com/reconsideration

    What if they switch to 20%-30% of the value increase? Would that be more than what they charge now in aggregate?

    There is no value increase when you turn all of your 64s into 65s. The market simply reprices the 65s as 64s...or worse.

    No need to make the leap to all 64s upgrading to 65s as no one else said that and I don't think that's happening.

    That's what grade inflation means

    I never took it to mean that.

    Do you think PCGS been bumping grades on all coins?

    There has been an evolution of standards over the last 30 years. That's all I'll say.

  • AlongAlong Posts: 410 ✭✭✭

    @metalmeister said:

    CLCT stock has been an excellent investment in 2020 . I wish had more shares to tender in the deal. As mentioned. Hope they keep the forum!

    Buy some more!

  • grote15grote15 Posts: 28,183 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2020 1:14AM

    @TurtleCat said:
    Something tells me my stockpile of 1980s and some 1990s sports cards wouldn't be worth much more if they were slabbed. The better ones have been in protective plastic since I first pulled them out. But paying big $$$ and waiting a year to see the results.... yikes.

    No one is submitting anything but a tiny percentage of cards from the 1980s or 1990s. The vast majority of card submissions actually consist of both modern and non sports cards. The volume of sports card and vintage unopened pack submissions has also exploded over the past couple of years and values for the better stuff have skyrocketed over that time. Boxes of unopened packs from the 1970s and 1980s have also doubled and even tripled in value over that time in many cases.



    Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
  • ReadyFireAimReadyFireAim Posts: 1,528 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 6, 2020 2:59AM

    @jmlanzaf said:
    There has been an evolution of standards over the last 30 years. That's all I'll say.

    Saint grading in the early days was a mess from what I have read.
    90% were MS63
    People were questioning the point of having a TPG if everything was the same grade.

    The resolution & pop distribution has gotten much better.
    Nowadays it's apparently called gradflation.
    I for one say, THANK YOU!...And nice progress.

  • nagsnags Posts: 676 ✭✭✭

    Offer increased to $92. What a great ride it's been!

  • bidaskbidask Posts: 12,361 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I heard it was purchased because of the booming card business.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 26,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    $92?

    I'm still thinking it over.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • islemanguislemangu Posts: 1,395 ✭✭✭

    Change is the only constant

    YCCTidewater.com
  • TurtleCatTurtleCat Posts: 2,802 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @islemangu said:
    Change is the only constant

    Until we go cashless as a society... lol

  • MgarmyMgarmy Posts: 1,496 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Grandpa tell me about the times when we had to carry money around...

    Time for Darwin to give the gene pool an enema.
    One more ASE till done!

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 20,395 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The sports, Magic and Pokemon card markets must be on fire these days!

    All glory is fleeting.
  • HashTagHashTag Posts: 256 ✭✭✭✭

    @bidask said:

    @291fifth said:
    It will be interesting to see what plays out. I have to wonder if the real beneficiary in the end will be their competition.

    Could be ......NGC could be a winner :)

    I can assure you they’re NOT, never have been and never will be.
    Regards

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 26,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sold for:$9,360,000.00
    includes Buyer's Premium (BP)

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • JaLPJaLP Posts: 199 ✭✭✭

    What happens to the $92/share bid if 50% +1 share aren't tendered by current shareholders and why aren't the bidders just buying on the open market since the price less is than $92 (or really buying more on the open market before upping their bid)?

  • MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 26,202 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @JaLP said:
    why aren't the bidders just buying on the open market since the price less is than $92 (or really buying more on the open market before upping their bid)?

    there is opportunity cost while waiting with money tied up for a small profit and there are those willing to take the small profit but they are not going to bid it up to $92. there is the estimated risk adjusted returns for short term investments. if it takes a year to close then the return better beat 1 year treasury yields for instance.

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
  • smokincoinsmokincoin Posts: 2,623 ✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    The sports, Magic and Pokemon card markets must be on fire these days!

    It is. Try going to your local Walmarts and Targets, the big two who even sell them, to find retail sports cards. The flippers and breakers are doubling/tripling their money on them. Alot of cards being sent to BGS, PSA, ect. by the new/renewed collectors. I believe the NGC group is even getting in on card grading. See (CSG- Certified Sports Guaranty).

  • vplite99vplite99 Posts: 600 ✭✭✭

    Yes, I've seen news stories about some sports cards being worth millions. But not the cards you and I own, I guarantee.

    Vplite99
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