@Zoins said:
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
People complain about bots. The mint does something about it. People complain about what the mint did. Eventually, the mint does something about that...
@MasonG said:
Everybody wants to be the among the ones who get the limited edition item. It's a problem with no solution.
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
But it wouldn’t increase the number of people who could purchase limited edition items. And I’m pretty sure that most of the dissatisfaction is among those who are unsuccessful in their purchase efforts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Zoins said:
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
People complain about bots. The mint does something about it. People complain about what the mint did. Eventually, the mint does something about that...
There is something to be said about doing something that doesn't work, as in with a lot of false positives.
@MasonG said:
Everybody wants to be the among the ones who get the limited edition item. It's a problem with no solution.
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
But it wouldn’t increase the number of people who could purchase limited edition items. And I’m pretty sure that most of the dissatisfaction is among those who are unsuccessful in their purchase efforts.
I agree. I think people are okay with a system that works well, but from what I've seen, a lot of the dissatisfaction is when the system repeatedly failed to work as one would expected, e.g. showing captchas many times, saying humans were robots, etc.
@Zoins said:
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
People complain about bots. The mint does something about it. People complain about what the mint did. Eventually, the mint does something about that...
There is something to be said about doing something that doesn't work, as in with a lot of false positives.
There's something to be said about looking for a solution that doesn't exist.
@Zoins said:
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
People complain about bots. The mint does something about it. People complain about what the mint did. Eventually, the mint does something about that...
There is something to be said about doing something that doesn't work, as in with a lot of false positives.
There's something to be said about looking for a solution that doesn't exist.
If only that were true. Google doesn't have a problem with this and the system seemed to fail on some browsers and work as expected on others.
It's probably better to think of this as growing pains than a solution not existing.
@Zoins said:
I agree. I think people are okay with a system that works well, but from what I've seen, a lot of the dissatisfaction is when the system repeatedly failed to work as one would expected, e.g. showing captchas many times, saying humans were robots, etc.
Ok- so the mint fixes those problems and once people are able to put an item in their cart, they can proceed to checkout and make the purchase. Result? A lot of people will be prevented (repeatedly) from putting items in their cart. But they'll be happier about it? I'm skeptical.
@Zoins said:
I agree. I think people are okay with a system that works well, but from what I've seen, a lot of the dissatisfaction is when the system repeatedly failed to work as one would expected, e.g. showing captchas many times, saying humans were robots, etc.
Ok- so the mint fixes those problems and once people are able to put an item in their cart, they can proceed to checkout and make the purchase. Result? A lot of people will be prevented (repeatedly) from putting items in their cart. But they'll be happier about it? I'm skeptical.
From what I've seen on the boards, people would be happier if they missed out because they were late rather than being subjected to captchas or bot warnings multiple times.
At the end of the day, the Mint put in a program which is okay, but it didn't work well and they should work on improving it. I don't think there's anything wrong with highlighting areas for improvement.
@Zoins said:
It's probably better to think of this as growing pains than a solution not existing.
Do you think there's a solution when there are more buyers who want coins than there are coins to go around? No matter what you do, when the music stops, some people don't get a chair.
@Zoins said:
It's probably better to think of this as growing pains than a solution not existing.
Do you think there's a solution when there are more buyers who want coins than there are coins to go around? No matter what you do, when the music stops, some people don't get a chair.
As mentions above, I think that's fine if people aren't getting false positive rejections.
People want a system that's fair, not to be unfairly blocked and delayed.
@Zoins said:
From what I've seen on the boards, people would be happier if they missed out because they were late rather than being subjected to captchas or bot warnings multiple times.
So instead of multiple captchas and bot warnings, they'll get multiple notices that they can't add an item to their cart and they'll be happier? I'd be surprised.
@Zoins said:
From what I've seen on the boards, people would be happier if they missed out because they were late rather than being subjected to captchas or bot warnings multiple times.
So instead of multiple captchas and bot warnings, they'll get multiple notices that they can't add an item to their cart and they'll be happier? I'd be surprised.
Yes, because the system is working as expected and people are on an even playing field. Everyone knows there's only so many to go around.
I'm surprised you don't see it this way and think it's okay to have so many false positive errors.
It’s not that they got screwed it’s how they got screwed. This point is just not that hard to get. Now a solution that the mint might actually implement...another story entirely. The point is not even really debatable as the mint admitted again that their antibot technology hosed up legitimate customer attempts.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
I have long been an advocate of the Mint doing something to modify how limited edition coins were allocated / sold. I have a regular job (I am off today) and cannot participate in the 'Goes on sale at noon tomorrow' feeding frenzy's. I have bought many many items from the Mint over the years and that accounts for nothing. It used to not be so bad but since about the mid aughts I just sort of have given up on getting anything that is limited from them.
A side note (sort of): I used to work at a company where one of the VP's was into buying ASE's etc. from the mint along with his father in law who evidently ran a couple of companies. When a limited edition ASE went on sale at noon, I would be at my desk working away as I could not go try and get any and he would stop by at about 1 or so and tell me how many he and his father in law were able to get using their own accounts and getting folks at the father in laws company to buy for them. I would just have to say something like 'Wow that is great, I am glad for you!' Not fun...
300,000 people click on add to cart in the same instant. Hope you have wall street level priority internet that can shave 0.0001 seconds off of your request so that you can move up the list for what time you clicked.
@MasonG said:
Everybody wants to be the among the ones who get the limited edition item. It's a problem with no solution.
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
It didn't used to...then everyone started complaining about bots. If you don't use captcha and screen bots, everyone will complain that the bots are getting all the coins. As @MasonG says: there's no solution that will make everyone happy.
@3stars said:
300,000 people click on add to cart in the same instant. Hope you have wall street level priority internet that can shave 0.0001 seconds off of your request so that you can move up the list for what time you clicked.
This is the problem. Ordering is equivalent to a malicious attack on the system.
Which is a point I made earlier, depending on the number of Bots in play by individual users (one user can have multiple bots in play) the results are the same as a DOS attack
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@Mgarmy said:
It’s not that they got screwed it’s how they got screwed. This point is just not that hard to get. Now a solution that the mint might actually implement...another story entirely. The point is not even really debatable as the mint admitted again that their antibot technology hosed up legitimate customer attempts.
@MasonG makes the general point that if you change the way they get "screwed", they'll just complain about that.
Last year, people were mad about bots. Everyone yelled about bots.
This year, everyone's mad about captcha and the processing delays.
Two years. Two different ways of getting "screwed", two different sets of complaints.
No one will argue that there aren't things they can fix. But the fix will NOT stop the complaints. The complaints come from people who didn't get coins. Whether they don't get them due to system delays, bots, losing a lottery, or any other "good" reason - they will complain.
The only "solution" is to make sure EVERYONE gets a coin. But when EVERYONE gets a coin, the complaints shift to the volume of crap the Mint puts out and how it doesn't hold value and isn't worth buying. [Feel free to find all the threads on this forum dedicated to that thesis.]
This point is also not that hard to get. But everyone who ducks it is under the assumption that their magic solution will somehow garner them a coin.
If you got tied up in Captcha and lost out, that is not a priori unfair. It is no different than your having a slower internet connection than I do. If you have arthritis and I don't, is it unfair that I click faster than you? If your computer processor is slower than mine so your browser runs slower, is that fair or unfair? What time zone are you in? Do you work or are you retired?
The Mint definitely made their system harder to use in an attempt to lock out the bots. The Mint should definitely improve their system. BUT...that will not end the complaints. It will just change them.
@Martin said:
Order by mail. Like the old days
Problem solved
Martin
LOL.
Until someone's order gets delayed by the post office and they miss out. It now becomes a lottery system run jointly by USM and USPS. That won't cause ANY complaints.
There is no perfect process waiting out there but there is room for improvement. Why not try to make it better?
I'm not buying that Congress and the Mint aren't communicating on the feasibility and fairness of ultra low mintages. Neither party is making unilateral decisions. If the number is a potential PR disaster than the Mint should speak up, and vice versa.
You are over complicating and mason is simplifying. If you lost a race because the guy next to you is faster that’s how it goes, if you lost the race because your lane had holes in it, did you still lose yes..was it a fair race...no. Did people complain about bots with the ERP yes...because it was f’d up cheating that the mint should have seen coming. So the mint fights bots with a substandard system that dorks it up and this is better how? Of course people are going to complain last year crash was the bots...this year crash was the antibot software. I think people can accept losing, it is tougher when you lose because of a pothole in your running lane. Just not that hard to get unless you are Spock. I get it and I did not lose I got my coin and went through all the crashes and locks and bicycles and trains and nonsense. It was pure luck just like the ERP last year. To still win with holes in your lane is great but does not mean those that did not do not have a valid point.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@Zoins said:
From what I've seen on the boards, people would be happier if they missed out because they were late rather than being subjected to captchas or bot warnings multiple times.
So instead of multiple captchas and bot warnings, they'll get multiple notices that they can't add an item to their cart and they'll be happier? I'd be surprised.
Yes, because the system is working as expected and people are on an even playing field. Everyone knows there's only so many to go around.
I'm surprised you don't see it this way and think it's okay to have so many false positive errors.
These are not exactly "false positive" errors. It is a correct diagnosis of your behavior as suspicious. It also may just be the default message when the system is overloaded. 300,000+ all trying to simultaneously place an order looks like a malicious attack on the system. And when you are rapidly clicking on a button, it looks like a bot. So, if you act like a bot, you get treated like a bot.
But no one, including MasonG is saying that the Mint software doesn't need an upgrade. The point is that it will NOT lessen any of the complaining. Go pull up the threads from the ERP ASE last year and read the hundreds (thousands?) of complaints. That was an "even playing field", to use your term. So, you're right, no one complained about being put in "time out". Instead they complained about bot, about flippers, about people with multiple accounts, about people with buying networks, about system freezes, about "artificial rarities" and a thousand other things.
@Mgarmy said:
You are over complicating and mason is simplifying. If you lost a race because the guy next to you is faster that’s how it goes, if you lost the race because your lane had holes in it, did you still lose yes..was it a fair race...no. Did people complain about bots with the ERP yes...because it was f’d up cheating that the mint should have seen coming. So the mint fights bots with a substandard system that dorks it up and this is better how? Of course people are going to complain last year crash was the bots...this year crash was the antibot software. I think people can accept losing, it is tougher when you lose because of a pothole in your running lane. Just not that hard to get unless you are Spock. I get it and I did not lose I got my coin and went through all the crashes and locks and bicycles and trains and nonsense. It was pure luck just like the ERP last year. To still win with holes in your lane is great but does not mean those that did not do not have a valid point.
Your metaphor is faulty.
Is it unfair if there is a pothole in EVERYONE's lane?
And why should someone have an advantage because they have a faster internet connection? The internet is not connected to the coin.
The system sucked. We can all agree on that. But that is not the same as calling it "unfair" as we were all playing on the same system with the same rules.
@MasonG said:
If "fair" is your goal, online purchasing at the time of your order will not get you there. Read ElKevvo's post above to see why.
It's another case where everyone defines "fair" as whatever gets them the coin.
[Disclaimer: I have not managed to acquire a V75 AGE. I got shut out despite my superfast T1 connection at work, In fact, I might have got shut out BECAUSE of my superfast T1 connection at work. But I'm not complaining. You play the cards you are dealt.]
@jmlanzaf said:
Until someone's order gets delayed by the post office and they miss out. It now becomes a lottery system run jointly by USM and USPS. That won't cause ANY complaints.
I see the smiley, but still wanted to point out that back when you had to mail in your order to the mint, there were complaints about the process in Coin World's letters to the editor when people didn't get the coins they wanted.
@jmlanzaf said:
It's another case where everyone defines "fair" as whatever gets them the coin.
I was also on a t1 and wondered if it contributed to the challenges as well. Enough people have said why they are angry and only some of it has to do with not getting one. To the flipper, I give a rats butt, for the collector that now has zero chance to complete a series...that sucks.
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@Mgarmy said:
I was also on a t1 and wondered if it contributed to the challenges as well. Enough people have said why they are angry and only some of it has to do with not getting one. To the flipper, I give a rats butt, for the collector that now has zero chance to complete a series...that sucks.
@Mgarmy said:
I was also on a t1 and wondered if it contributed to the challenges as well. Enough people have said why they are angry and only some of it has to do with not getting one. To the flipper, I give a rats butt, for the collector that now has zero chance to complete a series...that sucks.
To be fair, I think the reason is always that they didn't get one. They turn it into some kind of morality play, but they are mad because they don't have one.
Partly, I always bristle at "fair". When my students don't know the answer on a test, they tell me the question is "unfair". One girl used the "U word" and I pointed out that the question was on the homework that week and showed her the problem. She then told me it was still unfair because I changed the chemical compound from the homework even though the rest of the text was identical. In the end, it was only "unfair" because she didn't get it right but she gave me all kinds of rationales as to why it was unfair.
It’s not called t1 anymore? Damn I am old, what is it called now? Pretty sure work still has a t1 but maybe they have all gone cable?
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Meanwhile on this board nhlsm666 who had what, 13 of the 2019 enhanced? has another dozen of the ASE.
All there is for these releases is an ecosystem of which most in the coin community are willing participants and gamers. The only true way to address complaints here would be to vastly increase mintage and stop allowing returns. Everything else people will just be complaining about the new system they are also trying to game.
@foraiur said:
Meanwhile on this board nhlsm666 who had what, 13 of the 2019 enhanced? has another dozen of the ASE.
All there is for these releases is an ecosystem of which most in the coin community are willing participants and gamers. The only true way to address complaints here would be to vastly increase mintage and stop allowing returns. Everything else people will just be complaining about the new system they are also trying to game.
You stop returns, you'll get a whole new set of complaints. When you get a coin with a tiny hairline on it and you can't return it or the box gets creased in shipping...
You stop limited editions, you'll get a whole different set of complaints. "The Mint makes nothing but common crap that goes down in value..."
@MasonG said:
Everybody wants to be the among the ones who get the limited edition item. It's a problem with no solution.
If the system didn't say you were a robot and repeatedly ask you to identify bicycles, that would be a start.
As if the verification process for those of us whose information is already on file there weren't enough, during the opening bell of any and/or all offerings. All we can do is try.
I was always under the impression this was the reason my financial information was kept ( and is kept) there. Instead, many of us were banned. Strange ways : stranger days.
@Cameonut said:
The mint desperately needs a better and more fair method to sell modern crap rarities.
Limited edition items sold by lottery. Notification of upcoming sales posted on mint's website 90 days before entry period begins. 30 day entry period, by mail or online, with provision for buyers to confirm (either online or by phone) that their entry has been accepted.
There'd likely need to be some refinements, but that'll get you started.
@Cameonut said:
The mint desperately needs a better and more fair method to sell modern crap rarities.
Limited edition items sold by lottery. Notification of upcoming sales posted on mint's website 90 days before entry period begins. 30 day entry period, by mail or online, with provision for buyers to confirm (either online or by phone) that their entry has been accepted.
There'd likely need to be some refinements, but that'll get you started.
Lotteries will result in the same problem. People with big networks/family, etc. will get them all. It doesn’t reward people trying to get it. We all had an equal shot to get the coin. The windows and captchas we saw weren’t because the mint was singling us out. It was mostly random based on how we used the site, when we reloaded, etc.
The site crashed, but sites crash under that kind of load. If it didn’t crash they would have sold out in seconds. I say keep the system the same. Do what you can to stop bots, but don’t change the overall way they sell products.
@Cameonut said:
The mint desperately needs a better and more fair method to sell modern crap rarities.
Limited edition items sold by lottery. Notification of upcoming sales posted on mint's website 90 days before entry period begins. 30 day entry period, by mail or online, with provision for buyers to confirm (either online or by phone) that their entry has been accepted.
There'd likely need to be some refinements, but that'll get you started.
Lotteries will result in the same problem. People with big networks/family, etc. will get them all. It doesn’t reward people trying to get it. We all had an equal shot to get the coin. The windows and captchas we saw weren’t because the mint was singling us out. It was mostly random based on how we used the site, when we reloaded, etc.
The site crashed, but sites crash under that kind of load. If it didn’t crash they would have sold out in seconds. I say keep the system the same. Do what you can to stop bots, but don’t change the overall way they sell products.
I agree.
This was the topic earlier. No matter what you do, there will be complaints.
Comments
People complain about bots. The mint does something about it. People complain about what the mint did. Eventually, the mint does something about that...
Lather, rinse, repeat.
But it wouldn’t increase the number of people who could purchase limited edition items. And I’m pretty sure that most of the dissatisfaction is among those who are unsuccessful in their purchase efforts.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is something to be said about doing something that doesn't work, as in with a lot of false positives.
I agree. I think people are okay with a system that works well, but from what I've seen, a lot of the dissatisfaction is when the system repeatedly failed to work as one would expected, e.g. showing captchas many times, saying humans were robots, etc.
There's something to be said about looking for a solution that doesn't exist.
If only that were true. Google doesn't have a problem with this and the system seemed to fail on some browsers and work as expected on others.
It's probably better to think of this as growing pains than a solution not existing.
Ok- so the mint fixes those problems and once people are able to put an item in their cart, they can proceed to checkout and make the purchase. Result? A lot of people will be prevented (repeatedly) from putting items in their cart. But they'll be happier about it? I'm skeptical.
From what I've seen on the boards, people would be happier if they missed out because they were late rather than being subjected to captchas or bot warnings multiple times.
At the end of the day, the Mint put in a program which is okay, but it didn't work well and they should work on improving it. I don't think there's anything wrong with highlighting areas for improvement.
Do you think there's a solution when there are more buyers who want coins than there are coins to go around? No matter what you do, when the music stops, some people don't get a chair.
As mentions above, I think that's fine if people aren't getting false positive rejections.
People want a system that's fair, not to be unfairly blocked and delayed.
So instead of multiple captchas and bot warnings, they'll get multiple notices that they can't add an item to their cart and they'll be happier? I'd be surprised.
Yes, because the system is working as expected and people are on an even playing field. Everyone knows there's only so many to go around.
I'm surprised you don't see it this way and think it's okay to have so many false positive errors.
Why do you think the system isn't fair? Because there are delays? Do you think the mint is selectively blocking and delaying specific people?
It’s not that they got screwed it’s how they got screwed. This point is just not that hard to get. Now a solution that the mint might actually implement...another story entirely. The point is not even really debatable as the mint admitted again that their antibot technology hosed up legitimate customer attempts.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
People didn't want bots and the mint tried to accommodate that desire? Be careful what you wish for, I guess.
I have long been an advocate of the Mint doing something to modify how limited edition coins were allocated / sold. I have a regular job (I am off today) and cannot participate in the 'Goes on sale at noon tomorrow' feeding frenzy's. I have bought many many items from the Mint over the years and that accounts for nothing. It used to not be so bad but since about the mid aughts I just sort of have given up on getting anything that is limited from them.
A side note (sort of): I used to work at a company where one of the VP's was into buying ASE's etc. from the mint along with his father in law who evidently ran a couple of companies. When a limited edition ASE went on sale at noon, I would be at my desk working away as I could not go try and get any and he would stop by at about 1 or so and tell me how many he and his father in law were able to get using their own accounts and getting folks at the father in laws company to buy for them. I would just have to say something like 'Wow that is great, I am glad for you!' Not fun...
K
Order by mail. Like the old days
Problem solved
Martin
300,000 people click on add to cart in the same instant. Hope you have wall street level priority internet that can shave 0.0001 seconds off of your request so that you can move up the list for what time you clicked.
It didn't used to...then everyone started complaining about bots. If you don't use captcha and screen bots, everyone will complain that the bots are getting all the coins. As @MasonG says: there's no solution that will make everyone happy.
This is the problem. Ordering is equivalent to a malicious attack on the system.
Which is a point I made earlier, depending on the number of Bots in play by individual users (one user can have multiple bots in play) the results are the same as a DOS attack
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
@MasonG makes the general point that if you change the way they get "screwed", they'll just complain about that.
Last year, people were mad about bots. Everyone yelled about bots.
This year, everyone's mad about captcha and the processing delays.
Two years. Two different ways of getting "screwed", two different sets of complaints.
No one will argue that there aren't things they can fix. But the fix will NOT stop the complaints. The complaints come from people who didn't get coins. Whether they don't get them due to system delays, bots, losing a lottery, or any other "good" reason - they will complain.
The only "solution" is to make sure EVERYONE gets a coin. But when EVERYONE gets a coin, the complaints shift to the volume of crap the Mint puts out and how it doesn't hold value and isn't worth buying. [Feel free to find all the threads on this forum dedicated to that thesis.]
This point is also not that hard to get. But everyone who ducks it is under the assumption that their magic solution will somehow garner them a coin.
If you got tied up in Captcha and lost out, that is not a priori unfair. It is no different than your having a slower internet connection than I do. If you have arthritis and I don't, is it unfair that I click faster than you? If your computer processor is slower than mine so your browser runs slower, is that fair or unfair? What time zone are you in? Do you work or are you retired?
The Mint definitely made their system harder to use in an attempt to lock out the bots. The Mint should definitely improve their system. BUT...that will not end the complaints. It will just change them.
LOL.
Until someone's order gets delayed by the post office and they miss out. It now becomes a lottery system run jointly by USM and USPS. That won't cause ANY complaints.
There is no perfect process waiting out there but there is room for improvement. Why not try to make it better?
I'm not buying that Congress and the Mint aren't communicating on the feasibility and fairness of ultra low mintages. Neither party is making unilateral decisions. If the number is a potential PR disaster than the Mint should speak up, and vice versa.
You are over complicating and mason is simplifying. If you lost a race because the guy next to you is faster that’s how it goes, if you lost the race because your lane had holes in it, did you still lose yes..was it a fair race...no. Did people complain about bots with the ERP yes...because it was f’d up cheating that the mint should have seen coming. So the mint fights bots with a substandard system that dorks it up and this is better how? Of course people are going to complain last year crash was the bots...this year crash was the antibot software. I think people can accept losing, it is tougher when you lose because of a pothole in your running lane. Just not that hard to get unless you are Spock. I get it and I did not lose I got my coin and went through all the crashes and locks and bicycles and trains and nonsense. It was pure luck just like the ERP last year. To still win with holes in your lane is great but does not mean those that did not do not have a valid point.
100% positive transactions with SurfinxHI, bigole, 1madman, collectorcoins, proofmorgan, Luke Marshall, silver pop, golden egg, point five zero,coin22lover, alohagary, blaircountycoin,joebb21
If "fair" is your goal, online purchasing at the time of your order will not get you there. Read ElKevvo's post above to see why.
These are not exactly "false positive" errors. It is a correct diagnosis of your behavior as suspicious. It also may just be the default message when the system is overloaded. 300,000+ all trying to simultaneously place an order looks like a malicious attack on the system. And when you are rapidly clicking on a button, it looks like a bot. So, if you act like a bot, you get treated like a bot.
But no one, including MasonG is saying that the Mint software doesn't need an upgrade. The point is that it will NOT lessen any of the complaining. Go pull up the threads from the ERP ASE last year and read the hundreds (thousands?) of complaints. That was an "even playing field", to use your term. So, you're right, no one complained about being put in "time out". Instead they complained about bot, about flippers, about people with multiple accounts, about people with buying networks, about system freezes, about "artificial rarities" and a thousand other things.
Your metaphor is faulty.
Is it unfair if there is a pothole in EVERYONE's lane?
And why should someone have an advantage because they have a faster internet connection? The internet is not connected to the coin.
The system sucked. We can all agree on that. But that is not the same as calling it "unfair" as we were all playing on the same system with the same rules.
It's another case where everyone defines "fair" as whatever gets them the coin.
[Disclaimer: I have not managed to acquire a V75 AGE. I got shut out despite my superfast T1 connection at work, In fact, I might have got shut out BECAUSE of my superfast T1 connection at work. But I'm not complaining. You play the cards you are dealt.]
T1? 1995 called...
I see the smiley, but still wanted to point out that back when you had to mail in your order to the mint, there were complaints about the process in Coin World's letters to the editor when people didn't get the coins they wanted.
It would appear so
I was also on a t1 and wondered if it contributed to the challenges as well. Enough people have said why they are angry and only some of it has to do with not getting one. To the flipper, I give a rats butt, for the collector that now has zero chance to complete a series...that sucks.
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LOL. Sorry, you're right. I still call it that.
Flippers are people, too.
To be fair, I think the reason is always that they didn't get one. They turn it into some kind of morality play, but they are mad because they don't have one.
Partly, I always bristle at "fair". When my students don't know the answer on a test, they tell me the question is "unfair". One girl used the "U word" and I pointed out that the question was on the homework that week and showed her the problem. She then told me it was still unfair because I changed the chemical compound from the homework even though the rest of the text was identical. In the end, it was only "unfair" because she didn't get it right but she gave me all kinds of rationales as to why it was unfair.
mint to demand
Different set of complaints.
mint to demand
Different set of complaints.
LOL.
It’s not called t1 anymore? Damn I am old, what is it called now? Pretty sure work still has a t1 but maybe they have all gone cable?
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mint to demand is possibly the one single thing that can complete the numismatic side of the United States Mint completely shutting down.
I can't think of Any Single Idea Worse than mint to demand...
I think some of them are still called T1. But there are other protocols. I've always just generically called them "T1"
T1 has a bandwidth of 24 phone lines - a miserable 1.544 Mbps
It was a big deal to have one back then.
Meanwhile on this board nhlsm666 who had what, 13 of the 2019 enhanced? has another dozen of the ASE.
All there is for these releases is an ecosystem of which most in the coin community are willing participants and gamers. The only true way to address complaints here would be to vastly increase mintage and stop allowing returns. Everything else people will just be complaining about the new system they are also trying to game.
You stop returns, you'll get a whole new set of complaints. When you get a coin with a tiny hairline on it and you can't return it or the box gets creased in shipping...
You stop limited editions, you'll get a whole different set of complaints. "The Mint makes nothing but common crap that goes down in value..."
As if the verification process for those of us whose information is already on file there weren't enough, during the opening bell of any and/or all offerings. All we can do is try.
I was always under the impression this was the reason my financial information was kept ( and is kept) there. Instead, many of us were banned. Strange ways : stranger days.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
You fools are being played by the us mint.
It is far easier and much less stressful to OPT OUT of the us mint ordering quagmire. I DO.
There is no modern crap that is worth the drama.
The mint desperately needs a better and more fair method to sell modern crap rarities. And the common crap.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Limited edition items sold by lottery. Notification of upcoming sales posted on mint's website 90 days before entry period begins. 30 day entry period, by mail or online, with provision for buyers to confirm (either online or by phone) that their entry has been accepted.
There'd likely need to be some refinements, but that'll get you started.
Lotteries will result in the same problem. People with big networks/family, etc. will get them all. It doesn’t reward people trying to get it. We all had an equal shot to get the coin. The windows and captchas we saw weren’t because the mint was singling us out. It was mostly random based on how we used the site, when we reloaded, etc.
The site crashed, but sites crash under that kind of load. If it didn’t crash they would have sold out in seconds. I say keep the system the same. Do what you can to stop bots, but don’t change the overall way they sell products.
I agree.
This was the topic earlier. No matter what you do, there will be complaints.