Is it common for dealers to buy from auctions and sell on the bay?
goldrealmoney79
Posts: 417 ✭✭✭
A lot of auction houses have all this talk of bringing top dollar, but I was curious is it common for dealers to buy from an auction house and then sell on ebay for a nice markup? The coin below is what got my juices thinking...
Auction price, notice the dates, only a couple weeks apart!
https://legendauctions.hibid.com/lot/73044069/-1-1899-o-pcgs-ms67--cac/
not a bad quick flip/mark up. how many coins end up going through this process...
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Does the Legend price in the link above include the buyer's fee or is it the hammer price?
I know of several people that buy on GC and Heritage then flip on ebay. In fact, if Im the underbidder on a coin I really want, Ill search there and sometimes I find it.
Yes
Anybody can do it and you don’t need a store or website.
From what I have seen...yes, dealers and regular Joes and Janes do it.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Yes, they buy from the auction houses to sell on eBay and they also buy on eBay and re-sell on the Bay.
Very common. I see it with Heritage and Stack’s too.
Yes it includes ‘the juice’
Yes and most collect proverbial dust because the other people that want it aren’t willing to pay a 20% premium over what they JUST saw it sell For.
BHNC #248 … 130 and counting.
Arbitrage in open public markets can be tough, especially on items that get the same eyeballs. Inevitably, though, some coins get overlooked on the auctions and leave some room for profit at another venue.
Where it gets tricky trying to repeat the process.
Once I got 4 old trucks at an auction for cheap, made all my money back in 6 days from selling just one truck, then a nice multiple the rest of the way. I thought I was good at that game...haven’t been able to come close to that ever again. Slightly different scenario, but I assume there are a lot of people trying to catch lightning in a bottle with their resales.
Have had better success buying on EBay and selling on Heritage.
Link to 1950 - 1964 Proof Registry Set
1938 - 1964 Proof Jeffersons w/ Varieties
Here's a Ex-Steve Tomkins overstrike that sold on Stack's for $840 back in August and is now on eBay for $1400.
I think the more appropriate question is: "Is it common for dealers to buy from auctions and ATTEMPT to sell on eBay?" I can name numerous times when I've seen an item sell on Heritage and then see it listed for three times the sale price on eBay (where it sits for months, if not years).
Another too-common practice on the paper money side is that some slime will buy a note in, say, a VF 20 holder at Heritage, cut it out, wash and press it to a fare-thee-well, and then put it raw on eBay screaming "GEM CU" and, unfortunately, find a sucker to buy it at an inflated price.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA
Thanks! I looked around the website a bit but couldn't find anything.
Yes it can be very successful. SOP. Always looking for auction house (non eBay) pickoffs can retail for more. That’s how I roll.
Upwards of 50-100 pct profit on some auction house picks (non eBay) retailed on the Bay or at a show. 2 really huge profit (TD breakaway) way above 100 pct - somebody was asleep.
Many things I buy at auction house the consignor would have done better shopping item on bourse (sell to dealers) at show taking 80 pct CDN bid.
This market it’s smash mouth ball / calling right playbook. Like in my game app CFC / opp team: spread off / 46 bear def my play call spread off / 3-3-5 def. whip them big time.
eBay is in reality the worlds largest coin show. Good retail. Local shows here touch and go. Many coming in bourse room broke / won’t pay the money, nothing to sell but generics / junk. I try have stuff at shows (low pop material) other dealers don’t have so they can’t undercut me. For US Coins, especially shows CC material, key dates and DMPL $ strong, generics forget it (they can walk over to next table buy it at bid).
From my old coin club auc days the closer it got to auc end more likely they had run out of money and I could win at my price. Ditto strategy for online (non bay auc) today. Of course if bidder put in nuclear bid way above CPG or CU (double teamed receiver) that pass wb incomplete. But if he wins likely end user lol.
Not everything strong profit winning play many items at show I sell at just $5 over cost move them for cash flow / something off bourse I saw really want.
It's called "retail arbitrage". I do it all the time. It works in both directions. Some things will sell better at Heritage, others at eBay, etc. There's also the random lot that slips through the cracks in any of the venues.
It is less about the specific venue and more about the individual item and the perceived value.
I will add, as a separate note, sometimes it's just about timing. Maybe I would have bought the coin at Heritage, but I was cash-poor or missed the lot but it happened to be available on eBay when I was ready to buy. The one thing about eBay is that it is open 24/7. An auction, even a major auction at a major auctioneer, occurs on a single day at a single time.
While I am a very small budget collector, i have purchased several items at auctions and flipped for a profit on Ebay.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I don't know, I guess you really have to get a good price, I mean there are other bidders, the auction fees, tax, shipping plus insurance. Seems like a small profit at best. To me better luck buying from a dealer at a show - They have to pay a table fees and you can bargain, pay no tax, no shipping.
I guess it depends on the auction, timing and some luck... I rather sell W quarters I get....
I have a funny tale in regards to this! Coin is in a heritage auction I paid 2K for my example. Of course I'm going after it! And yes, it fell through the cracks. I won it for 1/2 what I paid for mine! Put it on ebay for what I paid for mine + the fees. The under bidder messages me and offers what I paid, not even considering the ebay and Paypal fees. I just messaged him back and told him I listed it for what I paid for mine. Guess what? It sold at my full asking price and the overseas buyer had to pay probably $300 more than my sales price!
If the eBay seller appears to have an established presence or eBay store they probably also have a website or coin shop where the coin can be obtained at a lower price. I have made this mistake once and now I always do a quick google search before buying any high-dollar coins on eBay
Well, damn. Look who's back. I was wondering when we were going to see you again. I knew you couldn't stay away.
Anyway, it's good to see you are back. It's been pretty dry around here lately with you and a few other old regulars missing.
Thanks. Nice to be back.
Who else has been missing?
You're assuming that it is a widget that has a fixed price with little deviation. You'd be hard-pressed to execute the arbitrage with a common date MS-65 Morgan. But for the less clearly priced items, sometimes a coin slips through the cracks. It could be because it is surrounded by "better" coins or "worse" coins. Sometimes ,it is done in by a really bad photo.
About a month ago, I bought a coin from a major auction company for $205 all-in (fees, shipping, etc.) I threw it on eBay as soon as it arrived and it sold almost immediately for $299 + shipping. That's a $65 profit for taking a picture and listing it.
Doesn't happen all the time, but it does happen.
Welcome back jm
I know an exonumia seller that buys regularly from S-B and then flips on eBay before he even has the coins in hand. He takes photos of his computer screen with the coin pictured and posts that photo on his eBay listing! I think it’s odd but it must work for him.
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
Funny too... I was the underbidder at the 2nd Newman Auction. I bid $120, it went for around for ****$140**** including the buyer's premium. Oh well, I missed out, but s'be'it.
Two weeks later it's on fleaBay from a large dealer, BIN for $118.
It's in my slab book now!
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
And I was outbid on fleabay for a coin I wanted and a few weeks later it showed up in a Heritage weekly auction and I won it for 17% less than my bid on fleabay!
On a related note, I thoroughly research auction archives before purchasing certified coins from dealers' website. If there's a recent auction result for a coin that sold for $1,000, for example, and the dealer wants $1,500 a month later, then I'm potentially buying a coin that has a price history that anyone with marginal computer skills can trace online. When I go to sell it, maybe the prospective buyers see that the same exact coin sold in xxx auction for $1,000 in 2019. Maybe it isn't so nice in-hand, so it realized a low price? The coin might as well have a criminal record. For this reason, I like to purchase coins that either a) have no auction history, or b) sold for an exorbitant overprice in a previous auction, with no other sale records.
I guess if you deal in blast white Morgan dollars or generic Saints, price history isn't such an issue for you, but I collect rare date Seated coins that are super-easy to trace.
Were you talking to me? Sorry, I didn't think it was a secret that you buy from Heritage etc. and resell.
Are you buying these as a dealer or collector? As a collector, I do not give much weight to a future buyer potentially losing interest on a coin after checking its prior auction history. If that's what is weighing on my decision, it's a great sign that it is not the right coin for me to begin with.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
have you looked at sellers other inventory? they have many high priced items that may be there for awhile.
Ebay too when people list stuff too low by mistake
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I concurrent with checking prices from prior auctions when researching a purchase. It absolutely baffles me that other folks don't. It's typically a hard pass for me when I see a sizable price increase.
I guess my thought is that a check of sold listings before making a purchase on ebay is just standard operating procedure.
It’s automatic for me as I operate online and do shows. Will take my turn at bat where ever. The base hits and homers make up for the strike outs.
I have cherry-picked some unattributed varieties from auction houses and dealers inventories, had them attributed, and listed them for the variety values. I have had quite a few potential buyers want them for the price I paid for them unattributed, since they looked up the certification number and saw it at the last auction.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
100% agreed. It's not really the venue, it's the value.
I look. But I'm less concerned with the prior sale and more concerned with the current value or the future value.
A couple of years ago, I bought a coin (slabbed) from eBay for $750. A dealer friend of mine sold it to another dealer at the Baltimore show for $1500. That dealer sold it to a 3rd dealer for $2250 at that same show. The 3rd dealer listed it on his website for $3000. Then I lost track...and interest.
Anytime I attend a large show, I’ll usually buy 5-10 pieces for flipping purposes only (on eBay). Usually these are cheaper coins, in the $50-$200 range. I look for coins with ‘different’ toning patterns...the crazier the better. The toning pattern doesn’t really even have to be that nice. Over the years I’ve developed at eye for what the eBayers go crazy over.
I’ll burn some time getting some nice images of the coins, and toss them onto eBay with a 1 cent start. Invariably I’ll make money on five or six, break even on a few, a lose money on a couple. I usually can net out +10% overall, but it’s a lot of work. My issue is trying to eliminate the clunkers where I lose money, sometimes up to 25-50%.
Dave
It can go both ways and it's hard to predict what something will ultimately sell for, sometimes it's more and sometimes it's less. Here, since it was trading between dealers, when it finally sold to a collector, it could have sold for $3,000 or went back to auction and sold for $750. I've seen both things happen, sold at a higher price and sitting a long time until it's sent to auction where it sells for less.