@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
Realistically, what do you think a dealer could make if he were to pay spot?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
Realistically, what do you think a dealer could make if he were to pay spot?
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
Realistically, what do you think a dealer could make if he were to pay spot?
I think he/she might soon be an ex-dealer.
Funny, but true. Accordingly, I don’t think the OP was lowballed by dealer B. And while I don’t like the way dealer A went about his business, I don’t think his revised offer amounted to a lowball offer, either.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There's also the story of the 2 B&Ms that doesn't get told very often.
Shop A relies on speculating the gold market and saying he needs to have gold rise to make a profit.
......... Shop A goes broke within a year.
Shop B maintains an inventory that he sells OR BUYS based on current market spreads and keeps his inventory at a certain level no matter what the market does.
Shop B stays in business for years and years and years.
@coinbuf said: @Bochiman , your only error was not knowing your audience here when posting this. As this forum is made up of more dealers than collectors its not surprising that some here dislike your actions and feel that your actions were; to them; akin to playing the dealers against each other. Likely those who have responded have been or felt that they have been in the position of dealer B, hence the rankled feathers.
LOL...you got that right.
Funny - I didn't post this to try to flatter (or denigrate) myself, or either shop. If I had wanted to "warn" against one shop, or "showcase" the other, I would have named them.
Bottom line, is I found it a little funny how it worked. I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
It's all good though. I'll still chat with both places and I'll still call or ask them for their best price if they want to buy and I want to sell. The thing I know from being on the forums AND talking to the owners of those shops, and a couple of other local shops, is that their prices will also be dependent on how HOT the market is for what they are buying. For bullion, if they can't keep it in stock, and customers are constantly showing up, then they will offer better than if they are uncertain if it will take minutes/hours/days to sell to a walk-in or someone else. That's literally what a couple of the owners have told me when I've chatted with them at shows and in their shops.
In the end, they were only ~2-3% off (~96% final offer by shop "B" and ~98-99% by shop "R").
Mark kind of asked if I would have sold if they had offered the same amount, or more. Given my desire was to get in, and get out, and continue doing my errands/running around, I probably would have. They weren't rude or anything and it was just "bullion".
Everyone views things in the lens they have for themselves or as their experiences lend them to seeing things. While I may not have seen it as "playing one against the other", and viewed it just as talking and honesty, I can understand those that have the more jaded view either because they play that game, or have had it played on them.
". Accordingly, I don’t think the OP was lowballed by dealer B. And while I don’t like the way dealer A went about his business, I don’t think his revised offer amounted to a lowball offer, either."
I agree with that, Mark. I don't think the $1750 or the $1732 was a lowball, for what I was offering. I do think I could have gotten more on ebay (Apmex wants $2000+ for the same thing..using the same link I bought it from them on ebay….and are 'on sale for only $99 over spot' on their own webpage as of yesterday), but I got instant cash and no real hassle, no fees, etc. I don't even consider the lowball and the follow-up as being a hassle....as I have dealt with this place for more than a few years and have sold them things before.
End of the day....it was my choice to sell or not, and I did. If I wanted to whine about the final price I got, as being a lowball since it was below spot, I wouldn't have sold.
@topstuf said:
It's SOOO easy to cultivate a great relationship with a B&M shop.
Especially for members of this forum who should have a "leg up" on knowing something about coins and dealer practices.
You'd be surprised. My closest B&M shop and the one with the best material coming in consistently would not show me some of their better coins (except rarely) at even retail prices. This went on for 30 yrs.....most of those in the rare coin era. The 2 owners were not easy to deal with. They didn't like to think they sold anything except for all the money. I could at times buy from one of them since he didn't know how to grade. But, he was rarely left in the shop alone....lol. Their reasoning for their reluctance to sell anything that might be decent was that they had a major national dealer who came in on buying trips every month or two. That dealer would scour the state for deals.
This shop would stock pile all the "best" coins for Dealer X figuring he paid them "full" price....and the check was fast and easy. The problem was, they sold him coins at their "grades," or the "agreed upon grades," and not what the real market grade would be....and certainly not at the dealer's grades. I suspect they were 1-3 grades off all the time, especially on UNC type coin material, which neither owner could grade well. Selling gems as ch unc and choice uncs as AU's. We've all seen shops like before. Over those 30 yrs they must have give up a huge % of what the coins were really worth. And instead of "seeding" all those coins to area collectors and keeping them around to possibly buy back again, they all went across the country, never to be seen again.
When a new owner took over a number of years ago, it was much easier to buy from the shop. And if they had doubts about a coin's grade, they sent it in for grading. But, what a waste of 30 yrs for a shop in your own back yard selling out the "state's coin heritage."
Bochi has always been one of the good guys and a straight shooter.
I know both dealers involved here — having bought/sold from each of them over the years — and generally both will try to press water out of stones whenever given the chance. And they’d take that as a compliment!
Their feelings won’t be hurt—nor will their delicate sensibilities be shattered—by a customer telling them what The Other Guy offered.
When did everyone get so dang sensitive around here? (rhetorical)🤠
I would expect ones offer would be influenced on how large their pool of people they have to pass it onto. A buyer with a large retail customer base and solid relationships on where to ship it (larger offer) will be able to pay more than someone who does not (lower offer) and/or have to work with it longer to sell. Experience, expertise and reputation add up over time and I surmise that when you know you can flip with one phone call then bids go up. Every shop has to be different in this regard.
I've been through this locally and just settled on a shop I prefer to work with. Simpler that way and when a shop knows your loyal, all kinds of neat things start getting offered or first crack at friendlier prices. I'll add that in my field, I'm naturally more gracious with my prices and time for folks that are the same and instinctively wall up to the folks trying to whittle me down on any little angle that can.
It's very true that shops often sell mostly to other dealers or "roadies."
There are a LOT of dealers who build their business on buying from shops. And, as @roadunner stated, there are tons of shops who undergrade. That's "meat and potatoes" to traveling dealers.
What's STUPID is for a shop to TELL a customer that's what they do.
I found the crux of the coin bizz was confidentiality. All around.
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
There are quite a few dealers in my area.
And I have used one dealer, in particular, since September of 2001.
I don’t question his buy or sale prices.
The relationship I have built is solid and has integrity on both sides.
I appreciate what Boichman was attempting to do, along with trying BST first, and I am thankful my path is simpler.
I don't need to know who you sold to @Bochiman but I can guess who A and B both are.
My only question; did you have the Dungeness crab buffet at the casino?
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
If you accepted dealer R’s offer of $1750, I don’t really see dealer B’s offer of $1680 as a low ball. Less competitive does not necessarily mean that you are being low balled.
@Swampboy said:
I don't need to know who you sold to @Bochiman but I can guess who A and B both are.
My only question; did you have the Dungeness crab buffet at the casino?
LOL.....you know both shops, trust me, and neither of them was Renton.
Buffets are closed. At Snoqualmie, they have turned the buffet into an "a la carte" order from the menu type of restaurant.
No...I didn't eat there yesterday....had a BIG, comp'ed, dinner there with the wife the night before though. Their steakhouse prices are unrealistic unless you get it comp'ed or use "casino bucks" basically, but people will pay their prices to go out on the town for a night. I won't, I'm cheap
(I had 14oz wagyu steak and a HUGE baked potato, for the main course, but started with filet bites and a BIG order of fries before that...and some ice cream dessert.....wife had HUGE 'lamb salad' (almost half rack lamb + salad) and a steak flight (3 types of steaks, 5 ounces each) and chocolate cake. She brought home half my steak and 2 complete of her steaks. Food, for her, for a week )
@coinbuf said: @Bochiman , your only error was not knowing your audience here when posting this. As this forum is made up of more dealers than collectors its not surprising that some here dislike your actions and feel that your actions were; to them; akin to playing the dealers against each other. Likely those who have responded have been or felt that they have been in the position of dealer B, hence the rankled feathers.
The actions went "akin" to playing the dealers against each other. They were exactly that.
That said, I don't have a problem with anyone's actions here. Both of the dealers were fine. The OP was within his rights.
But in what universe is "I got 1750 up the road" not leveraging the offer? Unless, of course, he would have turned down an 1800 counter offer. Then he was just sharing information
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
I'm not aware of any premium on those medals. 1750 is a strong offer
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@coinbuf said: @Bochiman , your only error was not knowing your audience here when posting this. As this forum is made up of more dealers than collectors its not surprising that some here dislike your actions and feel that your actions were; to them; akin to playing the dealers against each other. Likely those who have responded have been or felt that they have been in the position of dealer B, hence the rankled feathers.
I'm more of a collector than a dealer. I don't necessarily "dislike" the OP's actions, but I do think casting shade on shop B was unwarranted. YMMV. And there was nothing "akin" about it. The one dealer was played against the other. There's not any law against that, just as there's no law against a dealer making an initial offer lower than what they might pay if countered.
Much ado about not much, ultimately.
Hey, we agree!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
And again, YOU don't know the locations. Not sure why you feel a need to always chime in like you know things.....in this case, you are 100% in error in your thinking. Baley was pretty much spot on, particularly given the roads and directions.
Sheesh, you just can't help yourself from always posting in threads and trying to showcase yourself and your way of thinking, can you? Thread has zero to do with you, nothing you have brought value into, and yet, you have posted quite a bit in it in a 1 day period already. Bored?
I have a couple B&M stores near me also (other coast) but I find them excruciating to deal with. I'm a collector and think I know thing or two but I always have to beg them to show me any "good stuff". They have cases with cleaned or damaged coins. Any slabbed or nicer material stays in the back. I understand the need to establish a relationship but it's a two-way street too. I don't want to buy their lousy stuff, I'm picky and want choice material. It seems to be slim pickings at my local B&Ms.
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
And again, YOU don't know the locations. Not sure why you feel a need to always chime in like you know things.....in this case, you are 100% in error in your thinking. Baley was pretty much spot on, particularly given the roads and directions.
Sheesh, you just can't help yourself from always posting in threads and trying to showcase yourself and your way of thinking, can you? Thread has zero to do with you, nothing you have brought value into, and yet, you have posted quite a bit in it in a 1 day period already. Bored?
I find the ignore button especially helpful for this reason.
@SeattleSlammer said:
Bochi has always been one of the good guys and a straight shooter.
I know both dealers involved here — having bought/sold from each of them over the years — and generally both will try to press water out of stones whenever given the chance. And they’d take that as a compliment!
Their feelings won’t be hurt—nor will their delicate sensibilities be shattered—by a customer telling them what The Other Guy offered.
When did everyone get so dang sensitive around here? (rhetorical)🤠
As stated in The Godfather:It's nothing personal,it's just business.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@chesterb said:
I have a couple B&M stores near me also (other coast) but I find them excruciating to deal with. I'm a collector and think I know thing or two but I always have to beg them to show me any "good stuff". They have cases with cleaned or damaged coins. Any slabbed or nicer material stays in the back. I understand the need to establish a relationship but it's a two-way street too. I don't want to buy their lousy stuff, I'm picky and want choice material. It seems to be slim pickings at my local B&Ms.
Yeah, I hear you. When it is more about seeing nice coins to try to buy, I'll head to Renton Coin Shop. Steve has some nice stuff. The "B" shop was mainly about bullion (I did a quick look around in case I had wanted anything as part trade) and the "R" shop was about 50-50 but nothing other than common morgans and other common coins.
I believe you object to the phrase "playing the dealers against each other".
I agree it is somewhat inaccurate in this situation.
The dealers spent minimal time making their offer and bullion is a routine thing,
so there was no significant lost opportunity to them to make an offer.
In a different situation, where a dealer invested significant time in pricing coins for an offer,
they would appreciate the chance to increase their bid if there is a competing bid.
Otherwise, if you tell the second dealer the first dealer's bid, it gives the second person a significant advantage,
and does not value the time spent by the first dealer.
Clearly this was not the situation here for the single bullion coin,
but it is a situation described on past threads on this forum.
I wasn't really aware of B&M's salting away good coins in "the back" until reading this thread.
I semi sort of see a glimmer of logic to the idea, maybe..🤔
But not really.
You got coins, you got the shop. Seems to me the one thing you're always in need of is a buyer.
What are you waiting for?
Another solid reason I'm happy most of the time shopping the internet...
The one thing that stuck out to me and I don't believe was mentioned, is the OP's insistence that he KNEW (all caps) that shop B could quickly sell it because a customer was looking to buy gold. I can't provide any coin shop specific knowledge, but would be very surprised if a customer never changed their mind and decided not to purchase. The OP also seemed to indicate that there were existing 1 oz gold choices already available. So I don't know why a particular customer would chose the OP's coin and unless they are buying it in addition to any other purchases, the shop is just substituting one gold coin sale for another.
All in all, I don't see much noteworthy from either the dealer or customer perspective. One dealer offered 4% less than another and then only raised their offer by a few percent more when told of a better offer. So not the most compelling reason to start a thread in my opinion. But I did very much enjoy reading various perspectives about it, so I'm glad it was.
yawn
Maybe I knew because I know the shop and how quickly they turn things over (they have 5 local locations).
Glad you wanted to try to delve into things and make assumptions though. "Quickly" is subjective (I'm generally talking a day or a few days and not sitting on things for weeks). I would lay money that, given that definition, which is irrelevant to me relating the story as it doesn't impact hardly anyone on these forums; even though many people think it is so important to put their own 2 cents into it, that they don't keep most gold bullion types items for very long at all.
Again, I, and a few other forum members, KNOW the shops here and come from that perspective. The vast majority of "YOU" don't have that and are just trying to find little things to nitpick.....which is probably why so many have stopped relating experiences except for the "WATCH OUT FOR THIS EBAYER" and "THE POST OFFICE SUCKS AND HERE'S WHY".
"seemed to indicate"....LOL
"Don't see much noteworthy" …. but HAVE to comment about it.... again, LOL
"not the most compelling reason to start a thread" …. but super compelling enough to respond to it? …. LOL LOL LOL
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction. > @Bochiman said:
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
And again, YOU don't know the locations. Not sure why you feel a need to always chime in like you know things.....in this case, you are 100% in error in your thinking. Baley was pretty much spot on, particularly given the roads and directions.
Sheesh, you just can't help yourself from always posting in threads and trying to showcase yourself and your way of thinking, can you? Thread has zero to do with you, nothing you have brought value into, and yet, you have posted quite a bit in it in a 1 day period already. Bored?
What are you talking about?
I simply pointed out that many of us assumed "the other direction" meant opposite directions. (East,/west or North/south). I'm not correcting anything. Im obviously not the only one that thought that. I'm not even the one that asked about the distances.
If you don't want people discussing your post, don't post.
This was mostly a nice civil discussion about how bullion offers are generated.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
And again, YOU don't know the locations. Not sure why you feel a need to always chime in like you know things.....in this case, you are 100% in error in your thinking. Baley was pretty much spot on, particularly given the roads and directions.
Sheesh, you just can't help yourself from always posting in threads and trying to showcase yourself and your way of thinking, can you? Thread has zero to do with you, nothing you have brought value into, and yet, you have posted quite a bit in it in a 1 day period already. Bored?
I find the ignore button especially helpful for this reason.
I'll just melt.
Exactly what was my inappropriate comment here?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
I'm not aware of any premium on those medals. 1750 is a strong offer
Typically no but in todays market ALL physical gold is commanding premiums. Historically you are correct, another of the many reasons why I stick to AGEs and Pre-33 US.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
I'm not aware of any premium on those medals. 1750 is a strong offer
Typically no but in todays market ALL physical gold is commanding premiums. Historically you are correct, another of the many reasons why I stick to AGEs and Pre-33 US.
I don't know. Everyone I know lis still at 98% or less on these and selling close to spot.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
If you don’t have solid relationships already established, you absolutely have to get multiple bids on your stuff. That’s how you find out the real market (at least as it it pertains to your current available options).
Also, I don’t know that I’ve ever bought a coin in person without offering (or being offered) lower. It’s not games, it’s negotiating and can be done in a professional and friendly manner, and everyone leaves happy with whatever the agreement was (sale, no sale, whatever).
+1
I'm not sure that I'd feel too comfortable dealing with someone who bumps their original offer by $52 and when given a second shot - is still $18 lower than the next guy. Anything goes in a negotiation, but relationships do matter as well.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
@blitzdude said:
I know there is not a good collectors market for gold commems but IMO you were lowballed by both shops. Current premiums on gold suggest you should have at least been offered spot but if your happy I guess that's all that matters. Regards
I'm not aware of any premium on those medals. 1750 is a strong offer
Typically no but in todays market ALL physical gold is commanding premiums. Historically you are correct, another of the many reasons why I stick to AGEs and Pre-33 US.
I checked with a local market maker on these medals. He buys at 99.25% of spot and sells at 0.2% over spot. There is no premium on this form of physical gold.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Insofar as fortune goes, it's fortunate to have a B&M within fifteen minutes of us. To have another is even better, for consumers.
It is good to have choices. I know in my town and surrounding areas, the competition is tough( for gold) and seems many get by with paying below spot, at, or near the melt prices. And for dealers...it is sad that more don't recognize value based on grade , because .... well, if there are collectors ( big if) , one would think grade might matter, in the scheme of things.
Comments
Realistically, what do you think a dealer could make if he were to pay spot?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Realistically, what do you think a dealer could make if he were to pay spot?
depending on the open he might lose money.
I think he/she might soon be an ex-dealer.
If you buy and sell widgets, be prepared to get widgeted.
Funny, but true. Accordingly, I don’t think the OP was lowballed by dealer B. And while I don’t like the way dealer A went about his business, I don’t think his revised offer amounted to a lowball offer, either.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There's also the story of the 2 B&Ms that doesn't get told very often.
Shop A relies on speculating the gold market and saying he needs to have gold rise to make a profit.
......... Shop A goes broke within a year.
Shop B maintains an inventory that he sells OR BUYS based on current market spreads and keeps his inventory at a certain level no matter what the market does.
Shop B stays in business for years and years and years.
LOL...you got that right.
Funny - I didn't post this to try to flatter (or denigrate) myself, or either shop. If I had wanted to "warn" against one shop, or "showcase" the other, I would have named them.
Bottom line, is I found it a little funny how it worked. I also think it is funny how certain folks hear something and then try to poke holes in it, such as how far the places are from me and each other. I guess people don't seem to understand how roads and directions and traffic work. Just because they are both ~15 minutes from me doesn't me they can't be ~10 minutes from each other (on a major freeway) LOL
It's all good though. I'll still chat with both places and I'll still call or ask them for their best price if they want to buy and I want to sell. The thing I know from being on the forums AND talking to the owners of those shops, and a couple of other local shops, is that their prices will also be dependent on how HOT the market is for what they are buying. For bullion, if they can't keep it in stock, and customers are constantly showing up, then they will offer better than if they are uncertain if it will take minutes/hours/days to sell to a walk-in or someone else. That's literally what a couple of the owners have told me when I've chatted with them at shows and in their shops.
In the end, they were only ~2-3% off (~96% final offer by shop "B" and ~98-99% by shop "R").
Mark kind of asked if I would have sold if they had offered the same amount, or more. Given my desire was to get in, and get out, and continue doing my errands/running around, I probably would have. They weren't rude or anything and it was just "bullion".
Everyone views things in the lens they have for themselves or as their experiences lend them to seeing things. While I may not have seen it as "playing one against the other", and viewed it just as talking and honesty, I can understand those that have the more jaded view either because they play that game, or have had it played on them.
Peace out and don't get triggered
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
". Accordingly, I don’t think the OP was lowballed by dealer B. And while I don’t like the way dealer A went about his business, I don’t think his revised offer amounted to a lowball offer, either."
I agree with that, Mark. I don't think the $1750 or the $1732 was a lowball, for what I was offering. I do think I could have gotten more on ebay (Apmex wants $2000+ for the same thing..using the same link I bought it from them on ebay….and are 'on sale for only $99 over spot' on their own webpage as of yesterday), but I got instant cash and no real hassle, no fees, etc. I don't even consider the lowball and the follow-up as being a hassle....as I have dealt with this place for more than a few years and have sold them things before.
End of the day....it was my choice to sell or not, and I did. If I wanted to whine about the final price I got, as being a lowball since it was below spot, I wouldn't have sold.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
You'd be surprised. My closest B&M shop and the one with the best material coming in consistently would not show me some of their better coins (except rarely) at even retail prices. This went on for 30 yrs.....most of those in the rare coin era. The 2 owners were not easy to deal with. They didn't like to think they sold anything except for all the money. I could at times buy from one of them since he didn't know how to grade. But, he was rarely left in the shop alone....lol. Their reasoning for their reluctance to sell anything that might be decent was that they had a major national dealer who came in on buying trips every month or two. That dealer would scour the state for deals.
This shop would stock pile all the "best" coins for Dealer X figuring he paid them "full" price....and the check was fast and easy. The problem was, they sold him coins at their "grades," or the "agreed upon grades," and not what the real market grade would be....and certainly not at the dealer's grades. I suspect they were 1-3 grades off all the time, especially on UNC type coin material, which neither owner could grade well. Selling gems as ch unc and choice uncs as AU's. We've all seen shops like before. Over those 30 yrs they must have give up a huge % of what the coins were really worth. And instead of "seeding" all those coins to area collectors and keeping them around to possibly buy back again, they all went across the country, never to be seen again.
When a new owner took over a number of years ago, it was much easier to buy from the shop. And if they had doubts about a coin's grade, they sent it in for grading. But, what a waste of 30 yrs for a shop in your own back yard selling out the "state's coin heritage."
Bochi has always been one of the good guys and a straight shooter.
I know both dealers involved here — having bought/sold from each of them over the years — and generally both will try to press water out of stones whenever given the chance. And they’d take that as a compliment!
Their feelings won’t be hurt—nor will their delicate sensibilities be shattered—by a customer telling them what The Other Guy offered.
When did everyone get so dang sensitive around here? (rhetorical)🤠
I would expect ones offer would be influenced on how large their pool of people they have to pass it onto. A buyer with a large retail customer base and solid relationships on where to ship it (larger offer) will be able to pay more than someone who does not (lower offer) and/or have to work with it longer to sell. Experience, expertise and reputation add up over time and I surmise that when you know you can flip with one phone call then bids go up. Every shop has to be different in this regard.
I've been through this locally and just settled on a shop I prefer to work with. Simpler that way and when a shop knows your loyal, all kinds of neat things start getting offered or first crack at friendlier prices. I'll add that in my field, I'm naturally more gracious with my prices and time for folks that are the same and instinctively wall up to the folks trying to whittle me down on any little angle that can.
It's very true that shops often sell mostly to other dealers or "roadies."
There are a LOT of dealers who build their business on buying from shops. And, as @roadunner stated, there are tons of shops who undergrade. That's "meat and potatoes" to traveling dealers.
What's STUPID is for a shop to TELL a customer that's what they do.
I found the crux of the coin bizz was confidentiality. All around.
Because, um.... Triangles? 😉
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
There are quite a few dealers in my area.
And I have used one dealer, in particular, since September of 2001.
I don’t question his buy or sale prices.
The relationship I have built is solid and has integrity on both sides.
I appreciate what Boichman was attempting to do, along with trying BST first, and I am thankful my path is simpler.
I don't need to know who you sold to @Bochiman but I can guess who A and B both are.
My only question; did you have the Dungeness crab buffet at the casino?
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
If you accepted dealer R’s offer of $1750, I don’t really see dealer B’s offer of $1680 as a low ball. Less competitive does not necessarily mean that you are being low balled.
LOL.....you know both shops, trust me, and neither of them was Renton.
Buffets are closed. At Snoqualmie, they have turned the buffet into an "a la carte" order from the menu type of restaurant.
)
No...I didn't eat there yesterday....had a BIG, comp'ed, dinner there with the wife the night before though. Their steakhouse prices are unrealistic unless you get it comp'ed or use "casino bucks" basically, but people will pay their prices to go out on the town for a night. I won't, I'm cheap
(I had 14oz wagyu steak and a HUGE baked potato, for the main course, but started with filet bites and a BIG order of fries before that...and some ice cream dessert.....wife had HUGE 'lamb salad' (almost half rack lamb + salad) and a steak flight (3 types of steaks, 5 ounces each) and chocolate cake. She brought home half my steak and 2 complete of her steaks. Food, for her, for a week
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The actions went "akin" to playing the dealers against each other. They were exactly that.
That said, I don't have a problem with anyone's actions here. Both of the dealers were fine. The OP was within his rights.
But in what universe is "I got 1750 up the road" not leveraging the offer? Unless, of course, he would have turned down an 1800 counter offer. Then he was just sharing information
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I'm not aware of any premium on those medals. 1750 is a strong offer
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Hey, we agree!
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Lol. But he did say in the other direction.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
And again, YOU don't know the locations. Not sure why you feel a need to always chime in like you know things.....in this case, you are 100% in error in your thinking. Baley was pretty much spot on, particularly given the roads and directions.
Sheesh, you just can't help yourself from always posting in threads and trying to showcase yourself and your way of thinking, can you? Thread has zero to do with you, nothing you have brought value into, and yet, you have posted quite a bit in it in a 1 day period already. Bored?
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have a couple B&M stores near me also (other coast) but I find them excruciating to deal with. I'm a collector and think I know thing or two but I always have to beg them to show me any "good stuff". They have cases with cleaned or damaged coins. Any slabbed or nicer material stays in the back. I understand the need to establish a relationship but it's a two-way street too. I don't want to buy their lousy stuff, I'm picky and want choice material. It seems to be slim pickings at my local B&Ms.
I find the ignore button especially helpful for this reason.
As stated in The Godfather:It's nothing personal,it's just business.
Yeah, I hear you. When it is more about seeing nice coins to try to buy, I'll head to Renton Coin Shop. Steve has some nice stuff. The "B" shop was mainly about bullion (I did a quick look around in case I had wanted anything as part trade) and the "R" shop was about 50-50 but nothing other than common morgans and other common coins.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I believe you object to the phrase "playing the dealers against each other".
I agree it is somewhat inaccurate in this situation.
The dealers spent minimal time making their offer and bullion is a routine thing,
so there was no significant lost opportunity to them to make an offer.
In a different situation, where a dealer invested significant time in pricing coins for an offer,
they would appreciate the chance to increase their bid if there is a competing bid.
Otherwise, if you tell the second dealer the first dealer's bid, it gives the second person a significant advantage,
and does not value the time spent by the first dealer.
Clearly this was not the situation here for the single bullion coin,
but it is a situation described on past threads on this forum.
I wasn't really aware of B&M's salting away good coins in "the back" until reading this thread.
I semi sort of see a glimmer of logic to the idea, maybe..🤔
But not really.
You got coins, you got the shop. Seems to me the one thing you're always in need of is a buyer.
What are you waiting for?
Another solid reason I'm happy most of the time shopping the internet...
The one thing that stuck out to me and I don't believe was mentioned, is the OP's insistence that he KNEW (all caps) that shop B could quickly sell it because a customer was looking to buy gold. I can't provide any coin shop specific knowledge, but would be very surprised if a customer never changed their mind and decided not to purchase. The OP also seemed to indicate that there were existing 1 oz gold choices already available. So I don't know why a particular customer would chose the OP's coin and unless they are buying it in addition to any other purchases, the shop is just substituting one gold coin sale for another.
All in all, I don't see much noteworthy from either the dealer or customer perspective. One dealer offered 4% less than another and then only raised their offer by a few percent more when told of a better offer. So not the most compelling reason to start a thread in my opinion. But I did very much enjoy reading various perspectives about it, so I'm glad it was.
yawn
Maybe I knew because I know the shop and how quickly they turn things over (they have 5 local locations).
Glad you wanted to try to delve into things and make assumptions though. "Quickly" is subjective (I'm generally talking a day or a few days and not sitting on things for weeks). I would lay money that, given that definition, which is irrelevant to me relating the story as it doesn't impact hardly anyone on these forums; even though many people think it is so important to put their own 2 cents into it, that they don't keep most gold bullion types items for very long at all.
Again, I, and a few other forum members, KNOW the shops here and come from that perspective. The vast majority of "YOU" don't have that and are just trying to find little things to nitpick.....which is probably why so many have stopped relating experiences except for the "WATCH OUT FOR THIS EBAYER" and "THE POST OFFICE SUCKS AND HERE'S WHY".
"seemed to indicate"....LOL
"Don't see much noteworthy" …. but HAVE to comment about it.... again, LOL
"not the most compelling reason to start a thread" …. but super compelling enough to respond to it? …. LOL LOL LOL
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Lol. But he did say in the other direction. > @Bochiman said:
What are you talking about?
I simply pointed out that many of us assumed "the other direction" meant opposite directions. (East,/west or North/south). I'm not correcting anything. Im obviously not the only one that thought that. I'm not even the one that asked about the distances.
If you don't want people discussing your post, don't post.
This was mostly a nice civil discussion about how bullion offers are generated.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
I'll just melt.
Exactly what was my inappropriate comment here?
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Typically no but in todays market ALL physical gold is commanding premiums. Historically you are correct, another of the many reasons why I stick to AGEs and Pre-33 US.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@Bochiman
Glad to see your post and glad you sold for an acceptable price, be safe
Boston
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
I don't know. Everyone I know lis still at 98% or less on these and selling close to spot.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
If you don’t have solid relationships already established, you absolutely have to get multiple bids on your stuff. That’s how you find out the real market (at least as it it pertains to your current available options).
Also, I don’t know that I’ve ever bought a coin in person without offering (or being offered) lower. It’s not games, it’s negotiating and can be done in a professional and friendly manner, and everyone leaves happy with whatever the agreement was (sale, no sale, whatever).
+1
I'm not sure that I'd feel too comfortable dealing with someone who bumps their original offer by $52 and when given a second shot - is still $18 lower than the next guy. Anything goes in a negotiation, but relationships do matter as well.
I knew it would happen.
I checked with a local market maker on these medals. He buys at 99.25% of spot and sells at 0.2% over spot. There is no premium on this form of physical gold.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Insofar as fortune goes, it's fortunate to have a B&M within fifteen minutes of us. To have another is even better, for consumers.
It is good to have choices. I know in my town and surrounding areas, the competition is tough( for gold) and seems many get by with paying below spot, at, or near the melt prices. And for dealers...it is sad that more don't recognize value based on grade , because .... well, if there are collectors ( big if) , one would think grade might matter, in the scheme of things.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Retail ain’t easy. That’s all I’m saying!