Have any of you dealers messed with a tire kicker? When they can't make up their mind after negotiating a good price and then later come back to buy the coin, you tell them the price went up or that you are now holding it for another collector.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Sometimes they even ask you to set it aside while they walk the bourse, then they never come back.
Why would any dealer set aside a coin so a potential customer can search the bourse for a better deal? I could see doing this for a good customer that bought a lot from the dealer in the past but I'd put a time limit on it.
Well, they don't usually tell you they are looking for a better deal. They are going to the ATM or they will get it on the way out. You can say "no", but then they go on the CU forum and say what a rude dealer you are and how bad your customer service is.
Sometimes they even ask you to set it aside while they walk the bourse, then they never come back.
Why would any dealer set aside a coin so a potential customer can search the bourse for a better deal? I could see doing this for a good customer that bought a lot from the dealer in the past but I'd put a time limit on it.
Well, they don't usually tell you they are looking for a better deal. They are going to the ATM or they will get it on the way out. You can say "no", but then they go on the CU forum and say what a rude dealer you are and how bad your customer service is.
If they ask you to hold it while they find an ATM, you could always ask for a non-refundable twenty dollar bill to hold it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@MilesWaits said:
Agreed.
For anybody that owns a business they understand this customer malady of indecisiveness.
So annoying but you get better at reading them early and shutting it down early.
So true, which is why starting long ago when asked for my "best price" I will quote exactly what I want out of the item if it is not marked Net. If the customer continues trying to negotiate I simply tell them once in a friendly manner that I gave my best price first time as requested -- which makes it a yes/no decision on their part and gets straight to the indecisiveness malady mentioned above without all the stuff in between.
To me, the creme de la creme of the tire kickers are the ones who will price multiple items (say three), say ok to each one individually and, when finished, ask "Now what can you do on the group?", then walking away when I won't give a discount on a discount.
And of course there are those dealers that give you their best price and then immediately offer lower when you hand the coin back. Its a two way street and you can find bad ethics and behavior on each side and the handful of dealers that I've run across like that I've never gone back to. If I ask for a best price I expect to get just that, not the best price until its the second best price. I know a few dealers that I buy from that when I ask for the best price I will get it, then its a simple matter of yes or no on my part.
Sometimes they even ask you to set it aside while they walk the bourse, then they never come back.
Why would any dealer set aside a coin so a potential customer can search the bourse for a better deal? I could see doing this for a good customer that bought a lot from the dealer in the past but I'd put a time limit on it.
Well, they don't usually tell you they are looking for a better deal. They are going to the ATM or they will get it on the way out. You can say "no", but then they go on the CU forum and say what a rude dealer you are and how bad your customer service is.
I only used the "Going to the ATM" excuse once....but I think I left an unsolicited $100 cash with the dealer to prove I wasn't jerking him around. Ended up being a very pleasant transaction since we were both being good scouts!
I am certainly NOT a tire kicker BUT, when I was really focused on building my registry set, most of the coins came from online auctions and online transactions.
During that period; I went to a lot of shows and dealers just never had what I was looking for. There was one dealer, in particular, who always had interesting coins and I really enjoyed talking to him. I looked at a lot of his stuff but never bought anything but he was always gracious.
Fast forward to today......Now, that my set is mostly done and I am branching off and buying just whatever strikes my fancy; I am buying a lot more, at shows, and GUESS WHO gets a lot of my business?? Yup, that kind dealer......Never forgot how good he treated me and I have given him a TON of business, in the last several years, even when I think he is asking too much..........I'll still buy from him, when I like the coin.
Regarding the ATM 'excuse'.......I don't like carrying a lot of cash around, so I use the ATM machine, at shows, all the time, so it's not an excuse for me........It's the truth. I often ask dealers to hold a coin, while doing so, but I ALWAYS come back. If I am unsure; I will not ask him to hold the coin.
Long story short......There are A LOT of BS tire kickers out there, so I understand your frustration, but good people will ALWAYS remember who treated them well and who did not, so that is just some food for thought. My 2 cents...
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
There was a dealer who I will not name that used to come by my table at set up and have me hold 20 or 30 coins and said he would be back. He would come back late the next day or early the 2nd day. Inevitably he might buy 1 or 2! That happened twice and then it became buy it now or it's back in the case!
There are professional coin tire kickers that far eclipse the methods of the rank amateurs. I've met the PhD of them all. This guy must have taught classes in it as the University Level. He stalked my case for several years, specifically in US pre-1933 gold coins. I must have handed him 50-100 coins over several years. He almost never failed to stop by my case, have me pull out several coins, look closely, ask prices on several....ponder it for a few minutes....then hand them all back. Sometimes he'd come back and check some of the them out again....still never buying. On occasion even a 3rd trip back to see the same coins. US Gold coins at that time (and today) have some of the tightest spreads of any coins...often only 5% or so from wholesale where you could send them all to Heritage and be done with it. You're negotiating over $10-$25 on a $500 coin. And for me, 95% of my sales were to PNG Gold wholesalers who vacuumed up shows like this, paying more than nearly any collector would. I would usually sell from 4 or even 5 figures per show to these guys....without much argument.
After a couple of years of tire kicking, I finally priced Mr Tire Kicker a slabbed AU/Unc $20 Saint below melt, where he could have walked across the aisle and sold it for a $25-$50 profit immediately. He passed on that one too....lol. This was his mode of operation for the entire bourse floor. I was just one of many who got this tire kicking abuse. Me and my table mate discussed his antics quite frequently and how best to deal with it. Hey, I had to be there for 6 hrs, so if someone was going to tire kick me, so be it. I was holding out for that day he might actually buy a coin.
It came to a head one show where he had been priced a number of gold coins....and handed them all back. When he came back the 2nd time a half hour to hour later and I priced some of those again, he took offense on on the pricing of a circ Type1 AU gold dollar.....said I upped the price $25 on him. I said I certainly did not. My prices are written on the back in code. He then called me a "thief" where quite a few people in the vicinity heard it.....this treatment from the King of Tire Kickers? Boy, did my blood boil over. My pricing didn't change, and my table mate corroborated the pricing hadn't change since he usually closely watched these proceedings for both of our benefits. And in any event, when you walk away from a quoted price....that's it. There's no guarantee it will be the same next time around. So, in a very loud voice I called MR T.K out on his thief and liar accusations for everyone around to hear....and this was over a supposed $25 difference on a $400 coin. Gave him a good lashing. That incident pretty much ended his antics at my table for good. He never asked to see another coin again, nor would I have shown him one. I had patience for a couple of years....but this went on too long. Sometimes the "customer" is just wrong....or certainly not right for you. To answer the OP's question "do tire kickers ever tire?" For some........NO.
One of my customers is really bad for this. Actually , he is not really a customer per say, as when he does buy, he buys mid figure coins from larger firms. Not a local shop type buying guy. Pesters them to death for the best deal, and works them down, then passes often. The thing about it, this guy has money, he's not poor.
Made me think of it today, because his ways cost him a great coin and he found out about it today. He was looking at a specific gold coin about a month ago that a dealer friend of mine had, I got the coin for him to look at, I thought the thing was actually quite nice(undregraded and darn nice), my dealer friend just bought it, and offered it to him at a really good price. (on behalf of me) he couldn't pull the trigger. finds out today, that the coin was sold to another dealer who specializes in this, and low and behold, now carries the coveted gold CAC sticker. The only one with gold cac of this type. Priced at nearly twice what it was offered to him before, and sold with in a few minutes of listing it by this dealer.
@jdimmick said:
One of my customers is really bad for this. Actually , he is not really a customer per say, as when he does buy, he buys mid figure coins from larger firms. Not a local shop type buying guy. Pesters them to death for the best deal, and works them down, then passes often. The thing about it, this guy has money, he's not poor.
Made me think of it today, because his ways cost him a great coin and he found out about it today. He was looking at a specific gold coin about a month ago that a dealer friend of mine had, I got the coin for him to look at, I thought the thing was actually quite nice(undregraded and darn nice), my dealer friend just bought it, and offered it to him at a really good price. (on behalf of me) he couldn't pull the trigger. finds out today, that the coin was sold to another dealer who specializes in this, and low and behold, now carries the coveted gold CAC sticker. The only one with gold cac of this type. Priced at nearly twice what it was offered to him before, and sold with in a few minutes of listing it by this dealer.
Serves him right! LOL
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
LOL! I would have intentionally jacked the price before! You do have patience!
@roadrunner said:
There are professional coin tire kickers that far eclipse the methods of the rank amateurs. I've met the PhD of them all. This guy must have taught classes in it as the University Level. He stalked my case for several years, specifically in US pre-1933 gold coins. I must have handed him 50-100 coins over several years. He almost never failed to stop by my case, have me pull out several coins, look closely, ask prices on several....ponder it for a few minutes....then hand them all back. Sometimes he'd come back and check some of the them out again....still never buying. On occasion even a 3rd trip back to see the same coins. US Gold coins at that time (and today) have some of the tightest spreads of any coins...often only 5% or so from wholesale where you could send them all to Heritage and be done with it. You're negotiating over $10-$25 on a $500 coin. And for me, 95% of my sales were to PNG Gold wholesalers who vacuumed up shows like this, paying more than nearly any collector would. I would usually sell from 4 or even 5 figures per show to these guys....without much argument.
After a couple of years of tire kicking, I finally priced Mr Tire Kicker a slabbed AU/Unc $20 Saint below melt, where he could have walked across the aisle and sold it for a $25-$50 profit immediately. He passed on that one too....lol. This was his mode of operation for the entire bourse floor. I was just one of many who got this tire kicking abuse. Me and my table mate discussed his antics quite frequently and how best to deal with it. Hey, I had to be there for 6 hrs, so if someone was going to tire kick me, so be it. I was holding out for that day he might actually buy a coin.
It came to a head one show where he had been priced a number of gold coins....and handed them all back. When he came back the 2nd time a half hour to hour later and I priced some of those again, he took offense on on the pricing of a circ Type1 AU gold dollar.....said I upped the price $25 on him. I said I certainly did not. My prices are written on the back in code. He then called me a "thief" where quite a few people in the vicinity heard it.....this treatment from the King of Tire Kickers? Boy, did my blood boil over. My pricing didn't change, and my table mate corroborated the pricing hadn't change since he usually closely watched these proceedings for both of our benefits. And in any event, when you walk away from a quoted price....that's it. There's no guarantee it will be the same next time around. So, in a very loud voice I called MR T.K out on his thief and liar accusations for everyone around to hear....and this was over a supposed $25 difference on a $400 coin. Gave him a good lashing. That incident pretty much ended his antics at my table for good. He never asked to see another coin again, nor would I have shown him one. I had patience for a couple of years....but this went on too long. Sometimes the "customer" is just wrong....or certainly not right for you. To answer the OP's question "do tire kickers ever tire?" For some........NO.
If you’re in sales, of any kind, you’ll have these kinda people. Coins, cars, houses I try to get the best deal I can. That’s plain and simple. So with that said, I’m one a those guys. I’ve been this way all of my life. What’s the problem? If you have a problem with “ Tire Kickers” maybe you shouldn’t be in sales.
Just the harsh truth.
Peace out ✌️
The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
Once it becomes obvious somebody a TK I just quote them a price (may even turn around ignoring them looking at a book or price guide) but make no effort remove coin / banknote from case show them. They usually get the message and don’t come back.
@crazyhounddog said:
If you’re in sales, of any kind, you’ll have these kinda people. Coins, cars, houses I try to get the best deal I can. That’s plain and simple. So with that said, I’m one a those guys. I’ve been this way all of my life. What’s the problem? If you have a problem with “ Tire Kickers” maybe you shouldn’t be in sales.
Just the harsh truth.
Peace out ✌️
Tire kickers don't buy. So if your customers are tire kickers, then you aren't in sales...you're a museum.
@jmlanzaf said:
Tire kickers don't buy. So if your customers are tire kickers, then you aren't in sales...you're a museum.
If I come across a dealer that has 6 1927 MS66 saints and say I want to look at that one.
I'm basically grading his case.
I expect him to come out high and try to get me to buy one of the others at a lower price that he knows are C-coins.
It forces people to not look 1st at the coin they really want.
It's all a big game a lot of dealers like to play.
If you're getting your tires kicked a lot, you might want to look at it from the other side.
@jmlanzaf said:
Tire kickers don't buy. So if your customers are tire kickers, then you aren't in sales...you're a museum.
If I come across a dealer that has 6 1927 MS66 saints and say I want to look at that one.
I'm basically grading his case.
I expect him to come out high and try to get me to buy one of the others at a lower price that he knows are C-coins.
It forces people to not look 1st at the coin they really want.
It's all a big game a lot of dealers like to play.
If you're getting your tires kicked a lot, you might want to look at it from the other side.
You are misunderstanding what a tire kicker is. Tire kickers are NOT SERIOUS BUYERS. Period. Tire kickers are tire kickers by nature, they do it to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with any specific dealer or coin.
Comments
Have any of you dealers messed with a tire kicker? When they can't make up their mind after negotiating a good price and then later come back to buy the coin, you tell them the price went up or that you are now holding it for another collector.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Well, they don't usually tell you they are looking for a better deal. They are going to the ATM or they will get it on the way out. You can say "no", but then they go on the CU forum and say what a rude dealer you are and how bad your customer service is.
If they ask you to hold it while they find an ATM, you could always ask for a non-refundable twenty dollar bill to hold it.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
So true, which is why starting long ago when asked for my "best price" I will quote exactly what I want out of the item if it is not marked Net. If the customer continues trying to negotiate I simply tell them once in a friendly manner that I gave my best price first time as requested -- which makes it a yes/no decision on their part and gets straight to the indecisiveness malady mentioned above without all the stuff in between.
To me, the creme de la creme of the tire kickers are the ones who will price multiple items (say three), say ok to each one individually and, when finished, ask "Now what can you do on the group?", then walking away when I won't give a discount on a discount.
And of course there are those dealers that give you their best price and then immediately offer lower when you hand the coin back. Its a two way street and you can find bad ethics and behavior on each side and the handful of dealers that I've run across like that I've never gone back to. If I ask for a best price I expect to get just that, not the best price until its the second best price. I know a few dealers that I buy from that when I ask for the best price I will get it, then its a simple matter of yes or no on my part.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I only used the "Going to the ATM" excuse once....but I think I left an unsolicited $100 cash with the dealer to prove I wasn't jerking him around. Ended up being a very pleasant transaction since we were both being good scouts!
Here are my thoughts:
I am certainly NOT a tire kicker BUT, when I was really focused on building my registry set, most of the coins came from online auctions and online transactions.
During that period; I went to a lot of shows and dealers just never had what I was looking for. There was one dealer, in particular, who always had interesting coins and I really enjoyed talking to him. I looked at a lot of his stuff but never bought anything but he was always gracious.
Fast forward to today......Now, that my set is mostly done and I am branching off and buying just whatever strikes my fancy; I am buying a lot more, at shows, and GUESS WHO gets a lot of my business?? Yup, that kind dealer......Never forgot how good he treated me and I have given him a TON of business, in the last several years, even when I think he is asking too much..........I'll still buy from him, when I like the coin.
Regarding the ATM 'excuse'.......I don't like carrying a lot of cash around, so I use the ATM machine, at shows, all the time, so it's not an excuse for me........It's the truth. I often ask dealers to hold a coin, while doing so, but I ALWAYS come back. If I am unsure; I will not ask him to hold the coin.
Long story short......There are A LOT of BS tire kickers out there, so I understand your frustration, but good people will ALWAYS remember who treated them well and who did not, so that is just some food for thought. My 2 cents...
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The ones who negotiate a price then want me hold the coin for them for an indefinite period of time while they look around bourse not so hot either.
There was a dealer who I will not name that used to come by my table at set up and have me hold 20 or 30 coins and said he would be back. He would come back late the next day or early the 2nd day. Inevitably he might buy 1 or 2! That happened twice and then it became buy it now or it's back in the case!
There are professional coin tire kickers that far eclipse the methods of the rank amateurs. I've met the PhD of them all. This guy must have taught classes in it as the University Level. He stalked my case for several years, specifically in US pre-1933 gold coins. I must have handed him 50-100 coins over several years. He almost never failed to stop by my case, have me pull out several coins, look closely, ask prices on several....ponder it for a few minutes....then hand them all back. Sometimes he'd come back and check some of the them out again....still never buying. On occasion even a 3rd trip back to see the same coins. US Gold coins at that time (and today) have some of the tightest spreads of any coins...often only 5% or so from wholesale where you could send them all to Heritage and be done with it. You're negotiating over $10-$25 on a $500 coin. And for me, 95% of my sales were to PNG Gold wholesalers who vacuumed up shows like this, paying more than nearly any collector would. I would usually sell from 4 or even 5 figures per show to these guys....without much argument.
After a couple of years of tire kicking, I finally priced Mr Tire Kicker a slabbed AU/Unc $20 Saint below melt, where he could have walked across the aisle and sold it for a $25-$50 profit immediately. He passed on that one too....lol. This was his mode of operation for the entire bourse floor. I was just one of many who got this tire kicking abuse. Me and my table mate discussed his antics quite frequently and how best to deal with it. Hey, I had to be there for 6 hrs, so if someone was going to tire kick me, so be it. I was holding out for that day he might actually buy a coin.
It came to a head one show where he had been priced a number of gold coins....and handed them all back. When he came back the 2nd time a half hour to hour later and I priced some of those again, he took offense on on the pricing of a circ Type1 AU gold dollar.....said I upped the price $25 on him. I said I certainly did not. My prices are written on the back in code. He then called me a "thief" where quite a few people in the vicinity heard it.....this treatment from the King of Tire Kickers? Boy, did my blood boil over. My pricing didn't change, and my table mate corroborated the pricing hadn't change since he usually closely watched these proceedings for both of our benefits. And in any event, when you walk away from a quoted price....that's it. There's no guarantee it will be the same next time around. So, in a very loud voice I called MR T.K out on his thief and liar accusations for everyone around to hear....and this was over a supposed $25 difference on a $400 coin. Gave him a good lashing. That incident pretty much ended his antics at my table for good. He never asked to see another coin again, nor would I have shown him one. I had patience for a couple of years....but this went on too long. Sometimes the "customer" is just wrong....or certainly not right for you. To answer the OP's question "do tire kickers ever tire?" For some........NO.
Thanks RR. Great read and you pinpointed this type of behavior.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
One of my customers is really bad for this. Actually , he is not really a customer per say, as when he does buy, he buys mid figure coins from larger firms. Not a local shop type buying guy. Pesters them to death for the best deal, and works them down, then passes often. The thing about it, this guy has money, he's not poor.
Made me think of it today, because his ways cost him a great coin and he found out about it today. He was looking at a specific gold coin about a month ago that a dealer friend of mine had, I got the coin for him to look at, I thought the thing was actually quite nice(undregraded and darn nice), my dealer friend just bought it, and offered it to him at a really good price. (on behalf of me) he couldn't pull the trigger. finds out today, that the coin was sold to another dealer who specializes in this, and low and behold, now carries the coveted gold CAC sticker. The only one with gold cac of this type. Priced at nearly twice what it was offered to him before, and sold with in a few minutes of listing it by this dealer.
Serves him right! LOL
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
LOL! I would have intentionally jacked the price before! You do have patience!
If you’re in sales, of any kind, you’ll have these kinda people. Coins, cars, houses I try to get the best deal I can. That’s plain and simple. So with that said, I’m one a those guys. I’ve been this way all of my life. What’s the problem? If you have a problem with “ Tire Kickers” maybe you shouldn’t be in sales.
Just the harsh truth.
Peace out ✌️
Once it becomes obvious somebody a TK I just quote them a price (may even turn around ignoring them looking at a book or price guide) but make no effort remove coin / banknote from case show them. They usually get the message and don’t come back.
Tire kickers don't buy. So if your customers are tire kickers, then you aren't in sales...you're a museum.
If the tires weren't flat, maybe they would move.
EAC 6024
I have a problem with scuff marks. > @Moldnut said:
Trust me, I've sent thousands of coins to the refinery.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
If I come across a dealer that has 6 1927 MS66 saints and say I want to look at that one.
I'm basically grading his case.
I expect him to come out high and try to get me to buy one of the others at a lower price that he knows are C-coins.
It forces people to not look 1st at the coin they really want.
It's all a big game a lot of dealers like to play.
If you're getting your tires kicked a lot, you might want to look at it from the other side.
My Saint Set
You are misunderstanding what a tire kicker is. Tire kickers are NOT SERIOUS BUYERS. Period. Tire kickers are tire kickers by nature, they do it to EVERYONE. It has nothing to do with any specific dealer or coin.