Toning Dilemma
android01
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I've attached a picture of two coins graded by NGC that were part of a batch of twenty coins I sent in for crossover. The dilemma is that PCGS didn't cross these two, and on a little sticker gave a reason of "questionable color." Both coins are graded NGC MS65*. So, who's right? PCGS? NGC? I love the look of both, and my opinion was that they were naturally toned. I was frankly quite surprised at PCGS's evaluation.
These aren't the best pictures, but the toning on both is easily seen. There is no reverse picture of the half. It's totally white anyway. So, what say you? Who's right NGC or PCGS? Please discuss.
1
Comments
For comparison. PCGS MS65
I see nothing wrong with the dime. I have half a dozen of these "questionable color" slabbed coins.
I think the toning on the Kennedy is more likely to be NT than the dime. The blue rim tone is a little splotchy and doesn't look right to my eyes.
Crack them out and submit them to each service 10 times. You're sure to get more than one result. Who's right? Whichever of the results you like and decide to keep.
They are both right.
PCGS and NGC each utilize their own, proprietary grading systems and criteria. Many of the standards overlap between the two services, but the line between grades and between what might be acceptable and what might not be acceptable for any given data point can, and do, differ at times.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
That’s two coins I would have passed but if you crack and send back you
May get better results it’s really not worth the cash I would keep
Them just like that
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/publishedset/209923
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-major-sets/washington-quarters-date-set-circulation-strikes-1932-present/album/209923
I like both! The Kennedy IMO looks natural.
Both look NT to me, you can see some pullaway toning around the date on the dime, which is supposed to be tough to do for AT.
10-4,
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I don't understand the dilemma; you bought two coins that are straight graded by a top level TPG I assume because you liked the tarnish look. What has changed? Certainly nothing about the coins have changed from when you purchased them. Is the dilemma that you will only accept the opinion of one TPG and because you have conflicting opinions (either of which could change on any given day) you now don't like the coins? If so then may I suggest that you sell those coins to someone that can enjoy them as is. If you have to have the blessing of one brand of plastic to enjoy your coins I would suggest that you only pursue items already in that brand in the future, that way you can avoid any dilemma.
My Collection of Old Holders
Never a slave to one plastic brand will I ever be.
I don’t have an issue with the toning on either coin.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
The dilemma had to do with having my own ability to detect AT vs NT coins put into question. Maybe "dilemma" was the wrong word to use. I think I'm pretty good at detecting AT vs NT, and now one of the two major TPGS's questioned that ability. I love both coins, and I believe both to be NT. I'm not going to sell them because I like them both very much regardless of what plastic they reside in. Both have spots in my collection. Yes, I did buy both because of the beautiful toning. I attempted crossing them to maximize their value, not because of any love for one type of plastic over another. Which TPG doesn't enter the equation as to whether I buy a coin or not.
No one is terribly good at detecting AT vs. NT, especially in "questionable" cases. If you like the coins, I wouldn't worry about it.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
Send the dime back in.
Sometimes it takes a second trip through the grading room like this one needed.
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Honestly, the half dollar's toning seems a little different/odd to my eyes, but the dime looks fantastic.
I'd give the dime another try.
Good luck,
Dave
This is a bit contradictory.. I like both...but could see how each thought it was NT and AT. It's a tough hobby and sometimes it's not always exact. I personally think they look NT to me.
I had an 1893 Barber dime with very very similar toning and it was in an old ANACS holder. I sent it in to PCGS and they said QC as well. This was a few years ago.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
the tone on the Kennedy is quite similar to Proof Kennedy's that spend time in folders, probably acquiring the color due to the slides. the Dime looks similar to one I have that's raw and I think your best approach might be to submit them raw.
Did you send the Dime to CAC?
The barber dime looks like old ANACS toning. I have a couple that are similar!
Let's not create drama when there are no right answers because grading remains and always will be merely an opinion. Grading is not an absolute science and is subject to change as opinions can change.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
It makes more sense once you realize the categories are "Market Acceptable" and "Not Market Acceptable", not "Artificial Toning" and "Natural Toning".
Yes it went to CAC and did not get a sticker.
Did you ask for notes/feedback? Did it fail because of color?
I have seen many NT Dimes with those colors, but there is an AT artist whose creations often have blues next to deep golds, browns, or reds like that. @joebb21 What do you think?
Yes, I have a hard time thinking in those terms because you can apply both AT and NT to either "Market Acceptable" or "Not Market Acceptable."
That's true, you can. Unfortunately, when it comes to the numbers on the paper inserts of your slabs, you have to accept that the TPGs are making a determination of MA/NMA, not NT/AT.
I think pcgs is very strict on the toning. I have one got the same QC. Now I sent it in second time I hope I will get lucky this time. Sometimes if coin did not get cross is not because it is not qualified to cross, it is the grader just don’t want to cross it.
I would not put too much weight on what pcgs or NGC has to say. I have a coin that was graded by NGC. I sent to pcgs to cross twice, both come back as fake so I finally decided to sell it. I sold it for 18k.