Best Offer needs to be removed from eBay, or consequences must exist for abusing it.
Azurescens
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I'm very tired of best offer items that fall within "free shipping" range. If $5 is gonna make or break that deal then maybe you shouldn't do that deal.
I'm very tired of adding melt + a significant premium and someone telling me to "have a nice life" because I can't read their mind? Is it worth saying things like that to someone who can just buy your inventory and flush it down the toilet so nobody can enjoy it? Because that's what I wanna do when I'm treated this way.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't coin dealers and metal sellers ykno.. do deals on a daily basis? It's like your guys job right? I think I might really be missing the point here because I do my best with what knowledge I have to not be insulting.
These people just suck. I'd be embarrassed if I was a coin dealer who was vocal about offers being problematic. Or if I told people to "have a nice life" for sending an offer that says please and thank-you..
I can understand private collectors being casually upset, they gotta sell their gold and don't want to and the world sucks for many right now. But if you're a dealer saying things like this to people spending hundreds or thousands in your store (or looking to), then I'm sorry, you just don't deserve that business.
There are plenty of other sellers and board members here that I'd much rather give the business to.
This is the last time I entertain using BO, period. I wiped 15+ items off my watchlist just for that attitude. I'm very happy to not support sellers like these. I'd honestly rather spend more on lower quality coins to people who actually do good business.
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Hmmm, Are you onna the guys that offered me less than a thousand dollars on a gold coin that melted at $1300 and on top of that wasn't even a bullion coin!
Maybe you could explain what happened so we know what you are talking about.
I like using "best offer" both as buyer and seller. I don't take any comments personally. Its just business. On very rare occasions I just ignore or block a user.
I've used OBO many times with success. Only a couple of times did I feel that the seller was wasting my time; i,e, the counter was absurdly close to the BIN price and I made a very fair offer. Of course I don't even bother to make an offer if the BIN price is out of line IMO, which helps my success rate.
...no, I generally don't push too far back, unless it's overpriced or over graded or a problem coin made it into a straight holder and it's good enough to make money but not pay full price.
If I feel I have to move further than 10% back I just pass. Anything beyond that usually means it wasn't worth much to me to begin with.
I try really hard to not be insulting. There are some sellers charging nominal premiums. There are some charging insane premiums. What's insulting to one is fast easy business to another.
How is a buyer supposed to gauge what's best for a specific seller, if prices are all over the map?
If you offer half of what the seller is asking you probably should of just moved on to another coin.
Best Offer can’t really be ‘abused’ .... sellers can auto-set a minimum offer they’ll consider ... and buyers can offer any amount that may be allowed within those parameters .... sellers can counter any offer, too ... so while I understand a bit of your frustration, let’s not go and throw the baby out with the bath water!
I love the feature. It invites an open dialogue with sellers around coins I’m interested in....and many sellers even without a Best Offer option are willing to consider a lower Buy It Now price if you send them a polite inquiry.
Unless you understand what a seller costs are, then you can not know if you are making a fair offer.
Since this is about using eBay, first add whatever it costs to ship the item, postage and material costs. Then between seller and Paypal fees add another 10% to your offer.
By the way, eBay promotes Make an Offer to sellers and recommends it. They also try to get sellers to constantly lower their selling prices, because eBay only makes money on sales. eBay does not care what the sellers make.
Good point. I sometimes don't factor in enough for the seller's costs. BTW, some sellers are just jerks, OBO or not, but I find that more or less as often on the floor of a show or when buying anything for that matter.
I disagree. The fairness of an offer shouldn’t be based upon the seller’s cost. It should be based upon the coin and current market conditions.
Allowing a seller to break even or make a profit isn’t the same thing as making a fair offer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You can make as many fair offers as you want. If you want to purchase the coin the offer must meat what the seller is willing to sell for. Fair or not. And I am guessing his costs will greatly determine that amount. Just Saying.
Then I believe you are discounting the media unfairly. Very few people would BID so high on eBay, if they had local resources with less overhead. eBay would lower their fees if their platform was not generating the income it is designed to.
I use 'best offer' sometimes and don't get upset at all over low bids.
Actually......I should correct that statement.
I did block one bidder due to an excessively low, insulting bid.
I must have been in a sour mood that day.
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I agree with you. Still, the seller’s cost (and whether he’s willing to sell a coin at any particular price) has nothing to do with whether an offer is “fair”. It does, however, have a lot to do with the price at which a transaction might take place.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I have a lot of fun with the best offer option on both sides of the equation
It makes no difference what a seller paid for an item. If a coin is is valued at $100 but they paid $110 for it, then they try to ask $140+ for it, $90 is still a pretty fair offer even though it's only about 65% of asking price. This hypothetical seller is just out of touch and unrealistic in their expectations. This is how inventory sits on the site for years on end.
Collector, occasional seller
Fair is in the eye of the beholder. What I can't understand is someone getting upset at what another person is asking for a coin. If you do not like the price move on.
It does to the seller. Maybe they paid 110 because the think the coin is exceptional. Maybe they are asking 140+ because at less than that they would rather keep the coin in their collection. Ebay is not made of strictly dealers. Collectors do not mind holding their coins for years. Everything has a price. If you do not like their price move along.
"Upset" may not be the right word, but I can't help shaking my head, before moving on.
Set it up for the auto-reply.
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There is a reason it is called best offer and not fair offer.
Yes, but an offer that doesn't meet the seller's expectations can still be "fair".
agree
My neck gets sore shaking it at what some people are asking for certain coins. But I am sure they have their reasons and who am I to judge. I do not loose any sleep over what someone is willing to sell their possessions for.
Of course, this works both ways.
$5 is sometimes double my profit margin. So, if you want to get made because I can't come down $5, it is you getting mad because I don't want to lose money. Most of my net coin margins are 10% or less. So $5 is all the money on a coin of $50 or less.
I just sold an Albany commem in PCGS 65 for $225 - dropped the price $20 on the offer. I netted $15 on the deal. That is how a LOT of coin deals on eBay and in person are executed. It is very hard with U.S. material to buy a coin and sell it for 20% more. eBay, PayPal and shipping fees eat up about 9-10% of that margin.
I have a second account I sell cheap stamps and postcards for $1.59 and up. The total cost of shipping, eBay, PayPal and envelope is $1.19. I routinely get people offering me $1. I want to snarkily respond that I will accept the $1 if they pick it up at my house. Instead I counter with an explanation of how offers of $1 constitute less than the costs of sale much less the item itself.
It isn't worth my time to sell an item for $1.89 much less worth the time to try and negotiate a price lower than that.
Define "significant premium"?
Melt + $175 on a 1 oz gold coin is at or below melt on a net basis. Now, that is not your problem, but you can't blame people for not accepting the offer.
I also routinely get people offering me silver spot and free shipping for U.S. 90% silver coins including Morgans and Peace. That's not even a good wholesale price on even a cull Morgan much less delivered free to your house. Excuse me for saying it, but those people are bottom feeders hoping to take advantage of the ignorant. They are not serious offers.
This is a myth. Local resources do not have "less overhead". Depending on sales volume, local resources have more overhead.
The difference between eBay and a B&M is that the eBay costs are all incremental while the B&M costs are mostly fixed. As a result, you could buy a 1 oz gold coin in a B&M and sell it immediately for $5 more and "make a profit". On the other hand, you're going to have to do that 1000 times per month to keep the lights on and pay the staff.
On eBay, however, I can sell a single coin on eBay for a $5 profit and I don't need to sell anything else to keep the lights on . On the other hand, to get to that $5 profit, it needs to sell for purchase price + 10% + $5.
There are two B&M coin stores in my city. Both of them routinely sell their coins for more than I sell them for on eBay. Where I can't compete with them is bullion - which is why I don't even try to sell bullion on eBay, I wholesale it.
There not so much made at the other person. They are simply mad or frustrated that they can't acquire the shiny thing that they want at the price they want to pay.
this is a confusing thread.
I could be wrong but I believe the OP was ticked because the seller responded to BO with a snide remark not because the deal did not get done.
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Very true. Although "fair" needs more modification.
I tend to think the people with "unfair" expectations tend to be more collectors than dealers. They paid up for a coin they really liked, well over "fair market value", because they felt it was exceptional and they are insulted by anyone who doesn't recognize why they think "fair" is far more than "fair market value".
It is always a challenge.
I get offers of well below spot. I get offers of well below "fair market value". I get offers of well below the cost of shipping.
People get mad at me for "eBay charging shipping" - talk to your governor. People get mad at the cost of shipping yet complain if you don't use a priority mail box with a steel liner. LOL
It's just not worth getting mad about.
Hit and miss for me as a buyer. I have made reasonable (to me) offers on coins that were very close and coins that were priced in left field. Accepts and declines on both types.
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I don't mind the best offer option. I usually offer what a coin is worth to me. If it's priced way beyond that, then I just move on as I would probably upset the seller with an offer anyway. Most best offers I see on coins are usually priced way above market value anyway.
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I always send a message thanking the seller whether the deal was made or not.
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After I found that out, one seller got 100 notices as I kept bumping it up $1 at a time.
It was really boring at work that day.
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I haven’t bought anything from eBay in years. The best offer option is there for a potential buyer to make an offer. The buyer has absolutely no idea what the least amount of money the seller will accept. If the seller doesn’t like the buyers offer all he/she has to do is reject it. If a seller’s feels insulted by lowball offers then seller should stop using the best offer option. Real estate is a completely different game but a longtime ago I made a lowball offer on a property. My agent was very upset with my offer and didn’t want to present it to the seller. By law she was obligated to do so. Seller accepted my offer without countering.
ebay seller who gets an unacceptable offer should just say "no' and let it go. Way too low an offer doesn't even deserve a counter offer.
One gets a mixed bag on ebay. Several years ago I made an offer on an ebay coin deemed way too low by seller (not a lowball offer that I made imo) and was read the riot act by the seller. On the other hand I once made an offer on a ebay coin of 10% below asking price. Seller would not sell the piece to me at that price but countered with $10 off asking and stated he was about to raise his asking price if I didn't accept his counter offer.
I did the prudent thing and accepted the $10 off. If I were to sell this piece in today's "market" my asking would be 10% more to the buyer than I paid for it.
What is it about coins that sellers get so touchy about lowball offers? I have never blocked a buyer for making a lowball but I did block buyer on several occasions for abusing return privilege, a much more egregious offense in my opinion.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
Or ignore it!
I really do not like it when a seller offers a unique coin at a fair BIN price with a Best Offer Option
I will double his offer right now!
Best offer does not mean it needs to be accepted. Buyers thinking that way should just move on to a different seller. It's a free market so if your offer is reasonable, you should be able to find your coin at the price you want somewhere else.
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I’ve had good success with making a best offer. In every case but one the seller accepted. In the other case they met me halfway and I accepted.
I see it a lot like at a coin show. Part of the negotiation. When I make an offer I try to be reasonable, even if they are priced by PCGS pricing. If a seller ends up rejecting my offer then no worries. It’s not personal and it won’t be the item for me.
I don't get notices on auto rejections
You are changing the scenario. The OP stated they offered a fair premium on bullion over spot. I pointed out that on eBay sellers also have to pay fees and shipping.
@jmlanzaf the majority of sellers I would buy PMs from, on eBay, have large inventories and have overhead because they have a brick and mortar location. Whatever the overhead is, for the LCS's in my area, whatever they sell on eBay costs them more to sell.
BTW, you proved my point when you said: "On eBay, however, I can sell a single coin on eBay for a $5 profit and I don't need to sell anything else to keep the lights on . On the other hand, to get to that $5 profit, it needs to sell for purchase price + 10% + $5."
You're ignoring the point about incremental vs. fixed costs. For a small B&M establishment, you need much higher mark ups than that ON AVERAGE. All the fixed costs do for you is to allow you to occasionally sell something close to the purchase price.
Do the math. $5,000 in fixed monthly costs requires that you do at least $50,000 in monthly sales to be able to get by on a 10% margin. You only start to be cheaper than eBay after you've sold $50,000 in coins.
It's also hard to spend the $45,000 per month that you need to in order to sell $50,000 per month.
I agree. If you can't reach a deal....just move on …….. no need to get mad on either side. Life is too short.
I just got an offer for close to 1/3 my listed price telling me I am way overpriced. My response which is absolutely true. I have sold over a dozen at this level and I will buy any of the same quality you can offer me at much more than your offer with a polite Best Regards ending!
Just chill out and move on, I promise you can find more out there.