A tougher question would be, "How many of you would be happy paying MS63-64 money for this coin then finding out the PCGS grade." The risk of photo grading without handson benefit.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
I'm not seeing rub. The edges look clean and the fields relatively mark free. There are some random marks on cheek as pointed out but this coin looks better than a number of 64s I've seen. Still I will go 64 as the luster is a bit subdued over what I would want for a 65 and does not jump out and "bite" the way a 65 ought. It really looks to good IMO for a 63 for the reasons stated.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
This coin has some similar areas to the 1962 Franklin I asked about here. I would err towards AU like I did with the Franklin, which I have not been able to bring by my LCS yet to see if I am correct. This looks like many of border line MS coins I see on eBay, which are actually AU when examined in person.
@Insider2 said: @roadrunner said: "On weakly struck coins like a '21 Peace Dollar, it can be close to impossible with the naked eye to discern strike from wear at the 58-64 range. Even more difficult if you choose to determine whether such rub is bag friction or circulation friction. CBH's and $20's have similar issues......where the vast majority of 58-64 coins all have some form of "rub or friction." Technical rub can easily be merged into the "market acceptable" grade."
I disagree that weak strike and rub are difficult to discern w/the naked eye (except perhaps in an image).
...........which is exactly what we are presented with here....a photograph.
And in looking at weakly struck AU/MS seated and bust coins for 45 yrs....the difference in strike vs. rub is negligible. [As I wrote above, ONLY IN YOUR EYES. This is not a pissing match as much of what you write in this post is VERY GOOD info. However, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the way you have looked at coins for 45 years and the way I have. That is the reason I find it EXTREMELY EASY to see the difference even through toning which makes it even easier!] There is often little to no mint luster on flatly struck
areas. [When they have rub.] And if if toning now covers the weakly struck area, even harder. You really can't tell. [No, apparently YOU cannot tell.] Which is why I grade the open fields of the coin, other high points and the flat rims for other clues. If those other areas are covered in luster almost certainly the coin is mint state. [This is something a famous and well known ANA Hall of Fame numismatist told me. If the fields are nice the coin is MS. Don't worry about the high points of the coin. He was a very successful COMMERCIAL GRADER.] n fact, I've always had a problem with 19th century type coins not having luster on the rims (from handling rub and wear) yet still be graded MS. [I don't know anyone who grades the rims of a coin to determine MS/AU. Perhaps you will explain how/why you do it.] Why waste your time trying to interpret a totally inconsistent part of the coin (weak areas) when the other 90-95% of the coin will give better clues? [While striving for perfection, I prefer a technical MS coin - NO TRACE OF WEAR. That's why.]
A 'slider' coin, high points on obverse and reverse, the friction is noticeable. Buyer waited a long time to find a slider with strong Unc. characteristics. Why no 58+ if this is so high end?
@lkeigwin said:
Most of us know what PCGS graded it (c'mon...let's be real). OP should have removed the cert#.
The fun question is what will it regrade? That's what I'd like to see.
Lance.
I'm ok with how he did it though, because I had the chance to be honest with myself and:
See the pic
Form an opinion of the grade in my head
Not wait, sometimes for days, for the OP to post the real grade
Look it up and compare to my guess
While I didn't post the guess, I did open the thread, look, guess in my head (I was in the MS64 crowd with my 5-10s grading look), and then looked it up.
I agree with what you insinuate.....the regrade....
Please do yourself a favor and send it back to the seller. It’s going to get worse, not better
Sorry
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Insider2 said:
The PCGS graders may recognize the coin. Send it raw to ATS. Ask for conservation. You may get it graded MS.
Maybe the spot is what gave it the Au grade instead of Ms. Thanks for the advice 👍👍👍
A corrosion spot will not take a coin out of MS. IMO, that is a very nice 1921 Peace $ that can be "fixed" very easily. I'll bet many major dealers would cerack it, conserve it, and sell it raw as Mint state. You got guys here grading it as high as MS-64. That should tell you something.
@Insider2 you make me feel much better because the other forum members had valid points about sending it back and it Contradicts me liking the coin. Thanks for your info 😊
@markelman1125 said: @Insider2 you make me feel much better because the other forum members had valid points about sending it back and it conducted me liking the coin. Thanks for your info 😊
Well I hope the two of you enjoy the coin.
It’s yours to do with as you please.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@markelman1125 If you do get it conserved, please post an update with the results. I'm with others that I'd worry about the stability of the coin going forward. But if you like it, that's ultimately the most important opinion.
@CoinJunkie said: @markelman1125 If you do get it conserved, please post an update with the results. I'm with others that I'd worry about the stability of the coin going forward.
@Insider2 said:
The PCGS graders may recognize the coin. Send it raw to ATS. Ask for conservation. You may get it graded MS.
Have you looked at the pictures, other than the original ones? Based on the PCGS pictures, I had guessed 64. Based on the new ones, 58 seems plenty high enough. And with fees and postage, it would probably be a waste of money, even if somehow, the coin graded higher upon resubmission.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Insider2 said:
The PCGS graders may recognize the coin. Send it raw to ATS. Ask for conservation. You may get it graded MS.
Maybe the spot is what gave it the Au grade instead of Ms. Thanks for the advice 👍👍👍
A corrosion spot will not take a coin out of MS. IMO, that is a very nice 1921 Peace $ that can be "fixed" very easily. I'll bet many major dealers would cerack it, conserve it, and sell it raw as Mint state. You got guys here grading it as high as MS-64. That should tell you something.
Yes, it tells you that the coin looked far better in the original pictures. Ask how people grade it, based on the new pictures and the video.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@markelman1125 said: @Insider2 you make me feel much better because the other forum members had valid points about sending it back and it Contradicts me liking the coin. Thanks for your info 😊
Your coin has problems. Nevertheless, they can be fixed very easily. Crack it out as the AU-58 slab hurts the coin. Wheather you keep it or not ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT! If you got it at a fair price you did OK.
@REALGATOR said:
My guess is conserving it would still render it as Au58 but you can get a cac sticker. Can't remove wear with conservation, can we?
Proper conservation does no harm and in some cases can make the friction rub on an AU-58 coin more noticeable.
The amount of rubbing on a TRUE AU-58 is often disguised with toning or "skin" but that is considered to be "doctoring."
@metalmeister said:
Wow. Picture at the right angle makes a AU58 looks MS.
And another thing we all should consider although we cannot see the actual coin. My AU-58 is different from your Au-58, and from his AU-58, and from their AU-58, etc.
Comments
I would guess MS63+. It's pretty clean, and has some luster, but has the typical weak strike.
A tougher question would be, "How many of you would be happy paying MS63-64 money for this coin then finding out the PCGS grade." The risk of photo grading without handson benefit.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Thanks for the opportunity!
MS64 Was my guess.
I have since cheated 👀
63-
I couldn't wait any longer . . . . . . I am 63 and Corona is out there . . .so I cheated.
Drunner
Most of us know what PCGS graded it (c'mon...let's be real). OP should have removed the cert#.
The fun question is what will it regrade? That's what I'd like to see.
Lance.
Choice Uncirculated.
Whoever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with important matters.
First impression was 64 . But looking closer I may say 63 because of the marks on the obverse. Depends on the magnification
I'm not seeing rub. The edges look clean and the fields relatively mark free. There are some random marks on cheek as pointed out but this coin looks better than a number of 64s I've seen. Still I will go 64 as the luster is a bit subdued over what I would want for a 65 and does not jump out and "bite" the way a 65 ought. It really looks to good IMO for a 63 for the reasons stated.
Well, just Love coins, period.
This coin has some similar areas to the 1962 Franklin I asked about here. I would err towards AU like I did with the Franklin, which I have not been able to bring by my LCS yet to see if I am correct. This looks like many of border line MS coins I see on eBay, which are actually AU when examined in person.
AU
And in looking at weakly struck AU/MS seated and bust coins for 45 yrs....the difference in strike vs. rub is negligible. [As I wrote above, ONLY IN YOUR EYES. This is not a pissing match as much of what you write in this post is VERY GOOD info. However, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between the way you have looked at coins for 45 years and the way I have. That is the reason I find it EXTREMELY EASY to see the difference even through toning which makes it even easier!] There is often little to no mint luster on flatly struck
areas. [When they have rub.] And if if toning now covers the weakly struck area, even harder. You really can't tell. [No, apparently YOU cannot tell.] Which is why I grade the open fields of the coin, other high points and the flat rims for other clues. If those other areas are covered in luster almost certainly the coin is mint state.
[This is something a famous and well known ANA Hall of Fame numismatist told me. If the fields are nice the coin is MS. Don't worry about the high points of the coin. He was a very successful COMMERCIAL GRADER.] n fact, I've always had a problem with 19th century type coins not having luster on the rims (from handling rub and wear) yet still be graded MS. [I don't know anyone who grades the rims of a coin to determine MS/AU. Perhaps you will explain how/why you do it.] Why waste your time trying to interpret a totally inconsistent part of the coin (weak areas) when the other 90-95% of the coin will give better clues? [While striving for perfection, I prefer a technical MS coin - NO TRACE OF WEAR. That's why.]
A 'slider' coin, high points on obverse and reverse, the friction is noticeable. Buyer waited a long time to find a slider with strong Unc. characteristics. Why no 58+ if this is so high end?
I'm ok with how he did it though, because I had the chance to be honest with myself and:
See the pic
Form an opinion of the grade in my head
Not wait, sometimes for days, for the OP to post the real grade
Look it up and compare to my guess
While I didn't post the guess, I did open the thread, look, guess in my head (I was in the MS64 crowd with my 5-10s grading look), and then looked it up.
I agree with what you insinuate.....the regrade....
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
64 or 65.
I'll guess 64.
Regardless, nice coin.
Almost every MS 1921 Peace Dollar looks 55-58 to me. At least in a photo.
Odds are high imo that if resubmitted raw, that coin will come back Mint State more than once.
Looks like a solid 63
Quite curious as to actual grade - not an easy one as is obvious.
64+
"Today the crumbs, tomorrow the
loaf. Perhaps someday the whole damn boulangerie." - fictional Jack Rackham
58
Au 58
Hear is the luster videos from the seller
Please do yourself a favor and send it back to the seller. It’s going to get worse, not better
Sorry
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman I personally really like the coin, it looks great in person and it is the coin in the true view
The PCGS graders may recognize the coin. Send it raw to ATS. Ask for conservation. You may get it graded MS.
Maybe the spot is what gave it the Au grade instead of Ms. Thanks for the advice 👍👍👍
A corrosion spot will not take a coin out of MS. IMO, that is a very nice 1921 Peace $ that can be "fixed" very easily. I'll bet many major dealers would cerack it, conserve it, and sell it raw as Mint state. You got guys here grading it as high as MS-64. That should tell you something.
@Insider2 you make me feel much better because the other forum members had valid points about sending it back and it Contradicts me liking the coin. Thanks for your info 😊
Well I hope the two of you enjoy the coin.
It’s yours to do with as you please.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I am late to the post and see the grade (58).
I would've said 64.
@markelman1125 If you do get it conserved, please post an update with the results. I'm with others that I'd worry about the stability of the coin going forward. But if you like it, that's ultimately the most important opinion.
Its future is not good.
Lance.
Have you looked at the pictures, other than the original ones? Based on the PCGS pictures, I had guessed 64. Based on the new ones, 58 seems plenty high enough. And with fees and postage, it would probably be a waste of money, even if somehow, the coin graded higher upon resubmission.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Yes, it tells you that the coin looked far better in the original pictures. Ask how people grade it, based on the new pictures and the video.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Your coin has problems. Nevertheless, they can be fixed very easily. Crack it out as the AU-58 slab hurts the coin. Wheather you keep it or not ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU PAID FOR IT! If you got it at a fair price you did OK.
I was thinking MS64 due to the big hit on the cheek.
She is a beauty! Regardless of her blemishes, conservation may indeed be in order, the sooner the better.
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My guess is conserving it would still render it as Au58 but you can get a cac sticker. Can't remove wear with conservation, can we?
Proper conservation does no harm and in some cases can make the friction rub on an AU-58 coin more noticeable.
The amount of rubbing on a TRUE AU-58 is often disguised with toning or "skin" but that is considered to be "doctoring."
Wow. Picture at the right angle makes a AU58 looks MS.
100% Positive BST transactions
And another thing we all should consider although we cannot see the actual coin. My AU-58 is different from your Au-58, and from his AU-58, and from their AU-58, etc.
@Justacommeman > @metalmeister said:
Yea it is hard to get a good shot on camera. At home in person the coin has rolling luster