PCGS Grading Process Video - saw something disturbing to me.

DiggerJim · February 16, 2020 7:27AM

I ran across this youtube video on the process of coin grading inside PCGS. After I watched it I noticed something missing. So I searched NGC and sure enough they have the same video. I mean the same video. Whoever made theirs first, the other company must have copied. And NGC's is missing the same thing.

No one was wearing any hand protection. Cotton gloves. I find that disturbing. They were handling every kind of coin imaginable. Gold, Silver, Proofs, etc... with no protection. So I myself have yet to submit anything valued at over $500. But cringed at the way they just rolled and flipped these coins like nobodies business and it could have been a $10,000 coin!! Of course all are handled on the edges. I use gloves constantly with all my silver coins (don't own any gold coins yet) and anything I believe to have any value.

I'm looking for your comments on this if you don't mind. And the one comment I really don't want to hear is these folks are experts and blah blah blah. If you are working 8 to 10 hours at this very tedious job you are gonna slip up. I know I slipped on an ASE proof coin and left a finger print on the field and now it's degraded.

Thanks

DiggerJim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihLDv2Vc02k&t=253s

PerryHall · February 16, 2020 7:49AM

They claim that cotton gloves make handling coins more difficult and more prone to being dropped.

davewesen · February 16, 2020 7:54AM

David Hall is in the NGC video?

no gloves does not bother me, as I have dropped a coin because I was wearing gloves before

lusterlover · February 16, 2020 7:58AM

It's an interesting observation. I mentioned this point in a thread about 10 years ago. Maybe they use a lot of hand sanitizer to get the oils off their fingers beforehand. Regardless, this is the process and I guess there haven't been any negative long-term effects.

jmlanzaf · February 16, 2020 8:05AM

I almost never wear gloves in handling coins. And if you do, I would NOT recommend cotton gloves for a number of reasons. Cotton fibers will leave marks in fields if you slip. Also, if you are re-using cotton gloves, all you are doing is moving dirt from one coin to another, including finger oils since cotton is absorbent. If you are really paranoid about coin contamination, you need to use latex or nitrile disposable gloves.

CollectorBonEZ · February 16, 2020 8:06AM

If you are submitting proof coins with a smooth edge like nickels or small dollars they would leave finger prints on the edges.

ms70 · February 16, 2020 8:11AM

Back when I was in law enforcement we had a guy on the department we called "Chicken Fingers". Nobody wanted to use a car after him because the steering wheel would be covered in what felt like a thick coating of chicken fat. It was like what you'd expect after someone was eating greasy chicken while driving and didn't clean the wheel. It was gross but it was just the way he naturally was and couldn't help the excretion from his hands. The next guy to use the car would be stuck wiping down all the surfaces.

I hope the grading services don't have anyone nick-named "Chicken Fingers" working for them.

Insider2 · February 16, 2020 8:12AM

@DiggerJim said:
I ran across this youtube video on the process of coin grading inside PCGS. After I watched it I noticed something missing. So I searched NGC and sure enough they have the same video. I mean the same video. Whoever made theirs first, the other company must have copied. And NGC's is missing the same thing.

No one was wearing any hand protection. Cotton gloves. I find that disturbing. They were handling every kind of coin imaginable. Gold, Silver, Proofs, etc... with no protection. So I myself have yet to submit anything valued at over $500. But cringed at the way they just rolled and flipped these coins like nobodies business and it could have been a $10,000 coin!! Of course all are handled on the edges. I use gloves constantly with all my silver coins (don't own any gold coins yet) and anything I believe to have any value.

I'm looking for your comments on this if you don't mind. And the one comment I really don't want to hear is these folks are experts and blah blah blah. If you are working 8 to 10 hours at this very tedious job you are gonna slip up. I know I slipped on an ASE proof coin and left a finger print on the field and now it's degraded.

Thanks

DiggerJim

Fact: I don't know anyone associated with coins who has NEVER dropped one! Humans drop coins no matter what they are wearing on their hands. One trick is to work in the right environment. At the first coin authentication service, the floor was carpeted. So were the floors at the second authentication service and the first TPGS - INSAB in DC.

What I find most disturbing are uninformed collectors. Lucky for them this is a place we can help them. I suggest that you Get over it so you don't lose any more sleep. Thanks for posting that video. When I get back from work today I'll watch it.

PS Coins are tougher than you think. Throw one against a wall and try to notice that it looks different in any way. I've done this experiment for folks on many occasions.

DiggerJim · February 16, 2020 8:58AM

@Insider2 said:

What I find most disturbing are uninformed collectors. Lucky for them this is a place we can help them. I suggest that you Get over it so you don't lose any more sleep. Thanks for posting that video. When I get back from work today I'll watch it.

PS Coins are tougher than you think. Throw one against a wall and try to notice that it looks different in any way. I've done this experiment for folks on many occasions.

So me, still being in the ranks of the uniformed is the reason I continue to use what I think is the best forum on the internet. It’s a good thing I ran across this early this morning and you were able to set me straight so I’m confident I won’t lose any sleep tonight. And I’m happy to learn my latest lesson from this forum and that was to “Get over it”!!
Thanks

Insider2 · February 16, 2020 9:16AM

@DiggerJim,

I consider you to be one of the INFORMED guys around here and IMO this response is one of those perfectly entertaining "zingers" suitable for "Best Of" that I fear most will miss

PS The video does not show the NGC offices so while the grading process at each company may be similar I don't believe for one second that the videos are the SAME for each company! I suspect that stupid me confused "same" with "identical." Sorry.

Perhaps it is a similar situation to "there is only one [correct] way to "skin a cat." Note: I love cats.

PerryHall · February 16, 2020 9:19AM

@Insider2 said:

@DiggerJim said:
I ran across this youtube video on the process of coin grading inside PCGS. After I watched it I noticed something missing. So I searched NGC and sure enough they have the same video. I mean the same video. Whoever made theirs first, the other company must have copied. And NGC's is missing the same thing.

No one was wearing any hand protection. Cotton gloves. I find that disturbing. They were handling every kind of coin imaginable. Gold, Silver, Proofs, etc... with no protection. So I myself have yet to submit anything valued at over $500. But cringed at the way they just rolled and flipped these coins like nobodies business and it could have been a $10,000 coin!! Of course all are handled on the edges. I use gloves constantly with all my silver coins (don't own any gold coins yet) and anything I believe to have any value.

I'm looking for your comments on this if you don't mind. And the one comment I really don't want to hear is these folks are experts and blah blah blah. If you are working 8 to 10 hours at this very tedious job you are gonna slip up. I know I slipped on an ASE proof coin and left a finger print on the field and now it's degraded.

Thanks

DiggerJim

Fact: I don't know anyone associated with coins who has NEVER dropped one! Humans drop coins no matter what they are wearing on their hands. One trick is to work in the right environment. At the first coin authentication service, the floor was carpeted. So were the floors at the second authentication service and the first TPGS - INSAB in DC.

What I find most disturbing are uninformed collectors. Lucky for them this is a place we can help them. I suggest that you Get over it so you don't lose any more sleep. Thanks for posting that video. When I get back from work today I'll watch it.

PS Coins are tougher than you think. Throw one against a wall and try to notice that it looks different in any way. I've done this experiment for folks on many occasions.

I assume you also work over a jeweler's pad on the table you use for grading coins.

isaiah58 · February 16, 2020 10:23AM

I am using nitrile gloves for coin roll hunting. I do not drop coins any more than without wearing gloves. They come in most colors.

Even the crew members at Five Guys change their gloves constantly, all day long.

CaptHenway · February 16, 2020 10:28AM

@PerryHall said:
They claim that cotton gloves make handling coins more difficult and more prone to being dropped.

I can verify that statement.

ctf_error_coins · February 16, 2020 10:35AM

As a professional photographer handling one hundred thousand sheets of 4x5 film, I never ever wore gloves.

As a professional numismatist handling tens of thousands of coins, I never wear gloves.

Gloves suck.

Super clean hands are the way to go, wash with soap and hot water. Also, 91% alcohol to clean any grease off the hands. It also works great on the Coronavirus.

thisistheshow · February 16, 2020 11:35AM

@ErrorsOnCoins said:
As a professional photographer handling one hundred thousand sheets of 4x5 film, I never ever wore gloves.

As a professional numismatist handling tens of thousands of coins, I never wear gloves.

Gloves suck.

Super clean hands are the way to go, wash with soap and hot water. Also, 91% alcohol to clean any grease off the hands. It also works great on the Coronavirus.

Yup. This sums it up. The only time I sometimes use gloves, and I will use nitrile (because that is all I ever have on hand), is to place a coin in an album. And I would not want to use a cotton glove to press on a coin.

I will say that I am unsure whether TPG graders follow the proper hand cleaning methods outlined by @ErrorsOnCoins.

I am sure we could find some examples of slabbed coins that develop fingerprints that might have come from the graders.

cameonut2011 · February 16, 2020 11:38AM

@davewesen said:
David Hall is in the NGC video?

Hostile take over?

fiftysevener · February 16, 2020 11:59AM

Not too long ago I submitted a a small group of high grade 50's cameo proofs for reholder. About half came back with noticeable smudges and a coupe of finger prints. I immediately called them to describe the problem and was referred to upper management. I was informed that the coins likely had these problems prior to opening the holders but that they would review them if I returned them.... they would pay return shipping. When returned in fresh holders I was relieved to find them now free of smudges and my '52 cameo Lincoln now had blazing bright red color like the day it was struck !
So I would ask a buyer of these proofs, do you care if your coins show prints, smudges or other minor patches of haze ? The graders do not appear to care and tend to grade them technically in my experience. Shouldn't there be premiums attached to the cleaner coins ?

PerryHall · February 16, 2020 12:00PM

In addition to the graders there are others that handle your coins--- those that unpackage your coins in the mail room and get them ready for the graders and those that put them into and assemble the slabs after they've been graded. Unlike the graders they may not be experienced numismatists. Hopefully they've been trained on the importance of using the proper handling techniques of the coins they are entrusted with.

Cougar1978 · February 16, 2020 12:24PM

I don’t let people handle currency by removing it from the sleeve. Guy could have chicken or burger grease on his hands.

lkeigwin · February 16, 2020 12:27PM

I never use gloves. But I always start and end with washed hands.
Lance.

DiggerJim · February 16, 2020 2:09PM

DELETED

DiggerJim · February 16, 2020 2:09PM

Please don't kick me off. I was just joking!!!

lusterlover · February 16, 2020 2:52PM

poof

BryceM · February 16, 2020 3:09PM

Nice thread....... then that happened.

I wear gloves all day long in the OR. They’re a necessary evil. With coins, that’s why they have rims. The only time it would worry me is with modern proofs. Even then, a stray bit of spittle is far more worrisome. Photos of guys with cotton gloves holding circulated coins on eBay always make me laugh.

As for coins being tough..... I threw a Peace dollar against the concrete floor as hard as I could and I could barely see the resultant rim ding. But, first time I gently slide the cover slides out of an album, the coin goes from PR70 to PR25. Go figure.

DiggerJim · February 16, 2020 3:18PM

Sorry, That happened after my two daily Bud Lights.

MFeld · February 16, 2020 3:44PM

@DiggerJim said:
Sorry, That happened after my two daily Bud Lights.

If you’re sorry, why is the post still there?

CaptHenway · February 16, 2020 3:50PM

Be neat. Delete.

ms70 · February 16, 2020 3:53PM

"PCGS Grading Process Video - saw something disturbing to me."

I saw something disturbing to me right here!

ParlousJoe · February 16, 2020 4:07PM

So the video was a whole 5 seconds long? (I didn't watch it)

I would prefer to see the graders and whoever handles the coins raw with a mask over their face instead of gloves.

Outhaul · February 16, 2020 4:15PM

All coin graders should wear sandpaper mittens.

Insider2 · February 16, 2020 5:15PM

@PerryHall said: "I assume you also work over a jeweler's pad on the table you use for grading coins."

Yes, and you will not believe how "soft" my area is. Even the knobs on my scope are padded. Overkill is goo! We have a thing going that if you drop a coin you buy lunch for the grading room. Only "floor hits" count. We only had four lunches last year - two were on me but one was a slab.

Insider2 · February 16, 2020 5:36PM

Many people handle your coins. Everywhere I've worked they have been very careful. They all know how to hold a coin and put them in a slab. I cannot speak for our host but some of the folks who assemble slabs have been doing it over 20 years and I believe a majority of others have done it for at least a decade. Everyone knows that if they do something to a coin - report it immediately.

DollarAfterDollar · February 16, 2020 7:55PM

Long before the trend of wearing gloves to handle coins began, some of the worlds foremost collectors did so without them. If handling coins by their edges worked for Virgil Brand, it works for me.

jmlanzaf · February 17, 2020 6:55AM

@DollarAfterDollar said:
Long before the trend of wearing gloves to handle coins began, some of the worlds foremost collectors did so without them. If handling coins by their edges worked for Virgil Brand, it works for me.

To be fair, some of those people also cleaned copper and shellacked coins.

So, if shellac was good enough for John Jay Pittman, it's good enough for me!