MPL Die characteristics This week; 1909
GFourDriver
Posts: 2,366 ✭
As promised here are my diagnostics for the 1909 Matte Proof Lincoln:
Though initially coined with the same matte surfaces as the 1909 VDB cent, this issue is more often found with satiny surfaces. This feature was probably the result of the dies becoming slightly worn when coining the later impressions.
The obverse die used to coin VDB cents was continued with this issue and the same diagnostics may be found. A second obverse die was also used, and it's distinguished by a fine crack running from the truncation of Lincoln's bust to the rim. A couple of short die gouges run vertically from the top of the letter L in LIBERTY, while letters TY reveal some fine, vertical polishing lines. A third obverse features heavy die polish to the right of Lincoln's nose.
Two reverse dies were used, one with tiny chips appearing between each wheat ear and the border and the other with numerous, vertical die polishing lines around letters O and E of ONE and Letter T of CENT. A few more such lines appear between letters CA of AMERICA and the wheat stem. It's not known which combination of these dies may have been used. ...... David W. Lange
I only have one die state to display and if some may have a different die state, I would love to see it........
John
Images courtesy of cohodk and eagle eye.
Though initially coined with the same matte surfaces as the 1909 VDB cent, this issue is more often found with satiny surfaces. This feature was probably the result of the dies becoming slightly worn when coining the later impressions.
The obverse die used to coin VDB cents was continued with this issue and the same diagnostics may be found. A second obverse die was also used, and it's distinguished by a fine crack running from the truncation of Lincoln's bust to the rim. A couple of short die gouges run vertically from the top of the letter L in LIBERTY, while letters TY reveal some fine, vertical polishing lines. A third obverse features heavy die polish to the right of Lincoln's nose.
Two reverse dies were used, one with tiny chips appearing between each wheat ear and the border and the other with numerous, vertical die polishing lines around letters O and E of ONE and Letter T of CENT. A few more such lines appear between letters CA of AMERICA and the wheat stem. It's not known which combination of these dies may have been used. ...... David W. Lange
I only have one die state to display and if some may have a different die state, I would love to see it........
John
Images courtesy of cohodk and eagle eye.
0
Comments
-Paul
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
Very good post, brother.
BTW, image #2 was mine.
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Here's a News flash from the show! Alan Epstein (of finest Indian cent collection fame) is on the floor at Long Beach buying all the gem MPL's. BWRC will list his registry set later in the week.
Didn't wanna get me no trade
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Working for the boss every night and day
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Leonard Albrecht wrote the series.
Tom DeLorey
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credit added ty.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
my example has text book obverse die polish lines...
one can be seen spiking off of his should pointing up on an angle to letters "rt" of liberty
fiant evidence of polish lines can be seen by abes knose
my example reverse has some interesting die polish lines
please see reverse below the wheat ears...they are almost horizontal in nature as well as to the left wheat ear between the ear and rim
Proof that dies were NOT changed together as a pair, obv and rev.
At least this lets some of us po folk enjoy a VDB...at least until we flip it over.
It is a shame these GREAT series of threads are "lost" here on the Coin forum where very few people who are really interested in MPL's will see the comments. I happen to have subscribed to all of them so I get an email when someone comments. Any way the whole series could be moved to the Set Registry forum?
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>As promised here are my diagnostics for the 1909 Matte Proof Lincoln:
Though initially coined with the same matte surfaces as the 1909 VDB cent, this issue is more often found with satiny surfaces. This feature was probably the result of the dies becoming slightly worn when coining the later impressions.
The obverse die used to coin VDB cents was continued with this issue and the same diagnostics may be found. A second obverse die was also used, and it's distinguished by a fine crack running from the truncation of Lincoln's bust to the rim. A couple of short die gouges run vertically from the top of the letter L in LIBERTY, while letters TY reveal some fine, vertical polishing lines. A third obverse features heavy die polish to the right of Lincoln's nose.
Two reverse dies were used, one with tiny chips appearing between each wheat ear and the border and the other with numerous, vertical die polishing lines around letters O and E of ONE and Letter T of CENT. A few more such lines appear between letters CA of AMERICA and the wheat stem. It's not known which combination of these dies may have been used. ...... David W. Lange
I only have one die state to display and if some may have a different die state, I would love to see it........
John
Images courtesy of cohodk and eagle eye.
Since the obverse die was used for both the 1C 1909 PLAIN MPL and the 1C 1909 VDB MPL the same diagnostic points that are found on the obverse of the 1C VDB MPL type are also found on the obverse of the 1C non-VDB MPL type.
Since at least two obverse dies were used for the 1909 Lincoln Matte Proof, for arguments sake we will call them type 1 obverse die and type 2 obverse die.
Since type 1 obverse die is found on both the 1C VDB MPL and the 1C non-VDB MPL does it stand to reason that there would be examples of the 1C 1909 VBD MPL with the type 2 obverse die? Meaning, a 1C 1909 VDB MPL that has the cracked die between the truncation of Lincolns bust and the edge of the coin and polish marks along the nose but no line extending from the shoulder toward the letters "ER" in LIBERTY"? Plus the "crescent" die mark would also be found on the reverse of the type 2 variant next to the "M" in "UNUM"?
Has any examples of this type ever turned up?
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
It is generally accepted that ONLY one obverse die was used in striking the 1,500 proof Lincoln cents on July 30, 1909 that were pared with the VDB reverse. Although some people have mentioned other dies were used, nobody that I'm aware of has confirmed any more than ONE obverse die and ONE reverse die for the 1909VDB MPL.
Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>James,
It is generally accepted that ONLY one obverse die was used in striking the 1,500 proof Lincoln cents on July 30, 1909 that were pared with the VDB reverse. Although some people have mentioned other dies were used, nobody that I'm aware of has confirmed any more than ONE obverse die and ONE reverse die for the 1909VDB MPL.
Steve
Steve to the rescue again.
james
<< <i>The obverse die used to coin VDB cents was continued with this issue and the same diagnostics may be found. A second obverse die was also used, and it's distinguished by a fine crack running from the truncation of Lincoln's bust to the rim. A couple of short die gouges run vertically from the top of the letter L in LIBERTY, while letters TY reveal some fine, vertical polishing lines. A third obverse features heavy die polish to the right of Lincoln's nose. >>
It would be interesting to see a hi-res photo of that second type obverse die with the crack leading from the truncation of Lincoln's bust to the rim of the coin.
😛😏
Satiny and matte finish 1909vdb proofs 😛
Let's here it guys !! Not a mpl 🤣😎
Not even Close...Until the the big three Die characteristics are shown, no one is going to confirm yours or anyone elses 1909 or 1909 VDB cent a matte proof on this or any other form. And if you do not know what those characteristics are then I suggest you do your homework first. Just because it looks like one, does not make it one.
WS
You're rich! Submit them through Express Walkthrough at PCGS and pay a courier to ferry them both ways. You will be happy you made the investment...
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