@BryceM said:
How about FH, FS, FSB, FBL, DMPL, PL, RD, RB, and BN designations? Probably I forgot some. I suppose if I had a mintue, I could do the math, there are probably several thousand possible iterations if you include the green/gold stickers to what can appear on the PCGS insert.
It's madness, really. The pot has boiled-over at this point.
I think that Bryce has nailed it. DMPL for example is an important designation of a Morgan Dollar, as well as those little bitty California gold fractionals.
If asked what the grade is, the answer is MS65 DMPL for example, not MS 65 with a DMPL add on.
So yes, MS65 would be a separate grade from MS65 DMPL.
To follow this through, thousands of grading combinations is then quite likely.
Just because you don't think a 65CAC should cost more than a 65 no CAC is irrelevant. The 65 CAC will sell for more than the 65 no CAC 99% of the time. One should know this when either buying or selling.
Show me where I said a 65CAC shouldn't cost more than a 65 no CAC. Doesn't Gem Unc CAC say to one that the coin is superior to the same date and mint coin in just Gem Unc thus warranting a higher price?
For some coins, the difference between a 65 and 66 is huge. Calling them both Gem UNC is not helpful in assessing the value. How do you find price comps when the rest of the world uses the numerical grades and no one uses your 5 tier system?
The difference in price between Gem and Superb Gem can be huge. This is where one's expertise as a numismatist comes into play. Why should an experienced and knowledgeable numismatist need grade numbers spoon fed to him or her?
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
@BryceM said:
How about FH, FS, FSB, FBL, DMPL, PL, RD, RB, and BN designations? Probably I forgot some. I suppose if I had a mintue, I could do the math, there are probably several thousand possible iterations if you include the green/gold stickers to what can appear on the PCGS insert.
It's madness, really. The pot has boiled-over at this point.
I think that Bryce has nailed it. DMPL for example is an important designation of a Morgan Dollar, as well as those little bitty California gold fractionals.
If asked what the grade is, the answer is MS65 DMPL for example, not MS 65 with a DMPL add on.
So yes, MS65 would be a separate grade from MS65 DMPL.
To follow this through, thousands of grading combinations is then quite likely.
Well if we're counting stickers, we might as well count the various iteration of grading standards and the labels: early rattler; late rattler; early OGH (lighter green); later OGH (darker green); early blue label (pre-gradient); gradient with the funky hologram; the current iteration; etc., etc.
It may have already been said. The actual condition is continuous. The categories we try to fit them into are discontinuous and subjective.
It’s like the size of our feet and our shoe sizes.
@Coinstartled said:
We do need an MS71 grade as many common Eagles and modern commemems no longer carry a significant premium at the 70 level.
Maybe the mint director can sign off on a small batch of coins that were made from never previously refined precious metals.
I think we'll see a MS70+ first, but that would be quite a logical contradiction. I guess a 70 has no flaws under 5x magnification whereas a 70+ has no flaws under 10x or higher magnification.
First ALL the TPGS's need to get the MS/PR-70 grade down. That's because company standards/policy regulates the personal standards of professional graders.
Look, if someone wants to call a coin perfect by naked eye, 2X, 5X, 10X, etc. that's fine. There REALLY ARE perfect coins out there! They are perfect AS MADE by eye all the way up to 40X. Some may have tiny mint-made "imperfections." You'll need to decide for yourself if that knocks them from perfection. It often does not for graded coins.
@BryceM said:
How about FH, FS, FSB, FBL, DMPL, PL, RD, RB, and BN designations? Probably I forgot some. I suppose if I had a mintue, I could do the math, there are probably several thousand possible iterations if you include the green/gold stickers to what can appear on the PCGS insert.
It's madness, really. The pot has boiled-over at this point.
I think that Bryce has nailed it. DMPL for example is an important designation of a Morgan Dollar, as well as those little bitty California gold fractionals.
If asked what the grade is, the answer is MS65 DMPL for example, not MS 65 with a DMPL add on.
So yes, MS65 would be a separate grade from MS65 DMPL.
To follow this through, thousands of grading combinations is then quite likely.
Well if we're counting stickers, we might as well count the various iteration of grading standards and the labels: early rattler; late rattler; early OGH (lighter green); later OGH (darker green); early blue label (pre-gradient); gradient with the funky hologram; the current iteration; etc., etc.
Clearly as you get to top of population coins (silver Washington quarters for example,) NGC MS67 means something different then PCGS MS67. Not necessarily in quality, but market acceptance. But the number is the same, so grade wise I don't think that we should consider the coins to be to separate factions of grades.
I have to think out the cac thing a bit more. The moving metric now has the green sticky representing an A or B coin. In that regard it is sort of a soft plus. The gold sticker figuratively obliterates the grade on the holder and if it meant one grade higher it would be an easier argument to consider it to be a grade, but it could signify two or more bumps up, so as we are not sure of the intent of the verifier, i'll leave it off the list.
Comments
I think that Bryce has nailed it. DMPL for example is an important designation of a Morgan Dollar, as well as those little bitty California gold fractionals.
If asked what the grade is, the answer is MS65 DMPL for example, not MS 65 with a DMPL add on.
So yes, MS65 would be a separate grade from MS65 DMPL.
To follow this through, thousands of grading combinations is then quite likely.
Just because you don't think a 65CAC should cost more than a 65 no CAC is irrelevant. The 65 CAC will sell for more than the 65 no CAC 99% of the time. One should know this when either buying or selling.
Show me where I said a 65CAC shouldn't cost more than a 65 no CAC.
Doesn't Gem Unc CAC say to one that the coin is superior to the same date and mint coin in just Gem Unc thus warranting a higher price?
For some coins, the difference between a 65 and 66 is huge. Calling them both Gem UNC is not helpful in assessing the value. How do you find price comps when the rest of the world uses the numerical grades and no one uses your 5 tier system?
The difference in price between Gem and Superb Gem can be huge. This is where one's expertise as a numismatist comes into play. Why should an experienced and knowledgeable numismatist need grade numbers spoon fed to him or her?
If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, it expects what never was and never will be.---Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States of America, 1801-1809. Jefferson was the primary author of the Declaration of Independence.
Goody.
That's all I can add.
Well if we're counting stickers, we might as well count the various iteration of grading standards and the labels: early rattler; late rattler; early OGH (lighter green); later OGH (darker green); early blue label (pre-gradient); gradient with the funky hologram; the current iteration; etc., etc.
It may have already been said. The actual condition is continuous. The categories we try to fit them into are discontinuous and subjective.
It’s like the size of our feet and our shoe sizes.
First ALL the TPGS's need to get the MS/PR-70 grade down. That's because company standards/policy regulates the personal standards of professional graders.
Look, if someone wants to call a coin perfect by naked eye, 2X, 5X, 10X, etc. that's fine. There REALLY ARE perfect coins out there! They are perfect AS MADE by eye all the way up to 40X. Some may have tiny mint-made "imperfections." You'll need to decide for yourself if that knocks them from perfection. It often does not for graded coins.
Clearly as you get to top of population coins (silver Washington quarters for example,) NGC MS67 means something different then PCGS MS67. Not necessarily in quality, but market acceptance. But the number is the same, so grade wise I don't think that we should consider the coins to be to separate factions of grades.
I have to think out the cac thing a bit more. The moving metric now has the green sticky representing an A or B coin. In that regard it is sort of a soft plus. The gold sticker figuratively obliterates the grade on the holder and if it meant one grade higher it would be an easier argument to consider it to be a grade, but it could signify two or more bumps up, so as we are not sure of the intent of the verifier, i'll leave it off the list.
Gem, BU and Unc. Everything else is “opinions”.
Long before the new fad I was using A,B,C,D,& F within my cranium just when evaluating AU58 graded coins.
That being said I haven't seen a AU58 coin even with a CAC sticker I've liked enough to buy for many years.
Is a cac "A" MS65 NGC the same as a cac "A" MS65 PCGS?
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I remember when it was BU, ChBu, GemBu & SupurbGem……...that's 4.
I think it depends on the series. Bust silver mint state should include AU62 and AU63
Don’t forget about fancy green and gold stickers!
Dave
IMO, eventually every coin series will include grades like that. Then AU's will no longer "need" to be graded MS to reflect their value!
I'm guessing most of the respondents are stuck indoors due to weather, or posting on Company Time.
Only 1 angel can dance on head of pin and it's name is 70. There are infinity possible non-perfect coin "grades".
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry