Anyone interested in another ebay purchase/NGC review results adventure, albeit with much less financial risk on my part?
I located this coin on ebay and submitted to NGC for their estimated grade. These are the actual ebay photos. Anyone care to guess the grade range? I will reply shortly with the NGC review results:
Note: I have purchased and received the coin and will submit to NGC on Monday for grading
I'll take a shot at it.
Pics are at odd angles, making me suspicious, although could be attempting to defeat glare.
Looks nice. A few hits/marks are visible.
I'll say MS65. just missing PL designation.
(looked 66/67 PL at first glance though) possibly cleaned.
I will jump out a first story window if I find that it's a Chinese fake, or something. Lol.
PS... not a Morgan collector, just a casual collector of coins with eye appeal within my budget.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
I will say that grading from high-resolution VIDEOS or GIFS of coin photos, where the lighting is rotated around the circumference of the coin by at least 270', can certainly help in determining the grade of the coin.
Certain scratches and features become harder to see with single-point light where the light is co-linear with the angle of the scratches or hairlines. Also, an excess of light, or diffused lighting, can reduce contrast in a coin image, making details harder to make out.
Luster is another factor to consider. Varies by coin type and light source.
LIGHTING is everything in coin photography, which grading via coin photos is just downstream of that.
I have to say that if posed with this question the answer resembles, "Yes if............................." then I am hearing you say no, I cannot reliably grade a coin from pictures.
If this coin comes back as Details Graded as the 1893-CC did, NGC will have some explaining to do after this review:
As a side note, the seller did list it as PL in the auction title.
I don’t know see how anyone could provide a meaningful assessment of that coin based upon those images.
I agree. I would at least need better pics before I put money in it. But as a GTG, in this thread especially, it is on topic. Hard pass as is, from pics provided.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
@jedm said:
I answered "maybe" because of really only one fact that I've learned to appreciate and it has already been mentioned by @BryceM : "Some dealers photograph their coins in a consistent way that lends itself to accurate interpretation of the coin, once you’re accustomed to what you’re seeing."
When I see images by a trusted dealer I tend to feel more comfortable trusting my perceptions.
Exactly why I voted maybe. I have even been on Ebay so much that I can tell a good coin that has a bad pic because of the seller.
I have even been on Ebay so much that I can tell a good coin that has a bad pic because of the seller.
for the sake of an objective answer the criteria should be "on eBay can you reliably grade a coin with a bad picture from a seller you don't know" or something similar.
MFeld, John2000, MasonG - closing the loop on my NGC Expert Review and Grading Results experiment.
As a refresher, I sent an ebay listing to NGC for their new authenticity and grade range "Expert Review". The auction listed the coin as PL, uncirculated and the NGC Review came back with a Genuine, MS60 - MS70 result. I submitted the coin and the results were just posted:
NGC was very close with their estimate but another disappointing result overall. Is it too late to change my poll response?
Of special note - compare the NGC image with the auction photos eariler in the thread. I guess I should consider myself lucky it was not Details graded.
@pointfivezero said:
Long time bullion collector here but recently addicted to Morgans after a trip to Virginia City/Carson City this May. Let me answer the poll question with my recent experience. I am not looking for sympathy or empathy and probably don't deserve any. I've read on this forum that many have made and paid for their mistakes. So just add me to that distinguished list.
Please be patient as this story will unravel in three part harmony.
First - to remain anonymous, I won't list specifics. This was an ebay listing from a very reputable and well reviewed seller. This uncertified coin was listed with the title "1893-CC Morgan - Nice AU" and the BIN price was around $1K. These are the actual photos with the listing. What is everyone's opinion on the grade?
@pointfivezero said:
MFeld, John2000, MasonG - closing the loop on my NGC Expert Review and Grading Results experiment.
As a refresher, I sent an ebay listing to NGC for their new authenticity and grade range "Expert Review". The auction listed the coin as PL, uncirculated and the NGC Review came back with a Genuine, MS60 - MS70 result. I submitted the coin and the results were just posted:
NGC was very close with their estimate but another disappointing result overall. Is it too late to change my poll response?
Of special note - compare the NGC image with the auction photos eariler in the thread. I guess I should consider myself lucky it was not Details graded.
Thoughts?
Tim
In answer to the the poll question with respect to that particular coin:
Grading from the NGC photos should be somewhat reliable, but grading from the seller’s pictures was obviously a crapshoot.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But with coins inside your expertise with a decent picture you can be pretty close or right on in most cases. Your eye can always play tricks on you and without the ability to turn the coin in the light you might not notice.
Comments
NGC Review - The Sequel?
Anyone interested in another ebay purchase/NGC review results adventure, albeit with much less financial risk on my part?
I located this coin on ebay and submitted to NGC for their estimated grade. These are the actual ebay photos. Anyone care to guess the grade range? I will reply shortly with the NGC review results:
Note: I have purchased and received the coin and will submit to NGC on Monday for grading
I'll take a shot at it.
Pics are at odd angles, making me suspicious, although could be attempting to defeat glare.
Looks nice. A few hits/marks are visible.
I'll say MS65. just missing PL designation.
(looked 66/67 PL at first glance though) possibly cleaned.
I will jump out a first story window if I find that it's a Chinese fake, or something. Lol.
PS... not a Morgan collector, just a casual collector of coins with eye appeal within my budget.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
I will say that grading from high-resolution VIDEOS or GIFS of coin photos, where the lighting is rotated around the circumference of the coin by at least 270', can certainly help in determining the grade of the coin.
Certain scratches and features become harder to see with single-point light where the light is co-linear with the angle of the scratches or hairlines. Also, an excess of light, or diffused lighting, can reduce contrast in a coin image, making details harder to make out.
Luster is another factor to consider. Varies by coin type and light source.
LIGHTING is everything in coin photography, which grading via coin photos is just downstream of that.
Looks polished.
I have to say that if posed with this question the answer resembles, "Yes if............................." then I am hearing you say no, I cannot reliably grade a coin from pictures.
Thanks MasonG and John2000
If this coin comes back as Details Graded as the 1893-CC did, NGC will have some explaining to do after this review:
As a side note, the seller did list it as PL in the auction title.
I don’t know see how anyone could provide a meaningful assessment of that coin based upon those images.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
To be fair, I couldn't rule out a PL designation completely, based on those images alone.
I agree. I would at least need better pics before I put money in it. But as a GTG, in this thread especially, it is on topic. Hard pass as is, from pics provided.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
Well, they had no issue taking my $10. Here are the only other full view images of the coin in the listing:
A prominent dealer submitted the coin for consideration at MS64.
She appeared surprised & disappointed that it didn't CAC.
My guess is not enough luster
My Saint Set
Exactly why I voted maybe. I have even been on Ebay so much that I can tell a good coin that has a bad pic because of the seller.
I have even been on Ebay so much that I can tell a good coin that has a bad pic because of the seller.
for the sake of an objective answer the criteria should be "on eBay can you reliably grade a coin with a bad picture from a seller you don't know" or something similar.
Dangerously close to -Details Cleaned. These pics make it look duller.
I may not know what I'm doing most of the time, but I'm Damn good at it. 😇 😈
MFeld, John2000, MasonG - closing the loop on my NGC Expert Review and Grading Results experiment.
As a refresher, I sent an ebay listing to NGC for their new authenticity and grade range "Expert Review". The auction listed the coin as PL, uncirculated and the NGC Review came back with a Genuine, MS60 - MS70 result. I submitted the coin and the results were just posted:
NGC was very close with their estimate but another disappointing result overall. Is it too late to change my poll response?
Of special note - compare the NGC image with the auction photos eariler in the thread. I guess I should consider myself lucky it was not Details graded.
Thoughts?
Tim
AU50 details, scrubbed to death.
In answer to the the poll question with respect to that particular coin:
Grading from the NGC photos should be somewhat reliable, but grading from the seller’s pictures was obviously a crapshoot.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Maybe we can close this thread with one last picture:
Reliability goes up based on the quality of the photo.
I don’t feel there is any 100 pct substitute for viewing a coin sight seen under proper lighting and magnification.
Of course it's not reliable.
But with coins inside your expertise with a decent picture you can be pretty close or right on in most cases. Your eye can always play tricks on you and without the ability to turn the coin in the light you might not notice.