@Coinstartled said:
Internet was granted tax free status for a number of years. Ebay founder offered a level playing field.
eBay's founder is not running the show today. Companies change, people can either deal with it or not. As far as taxes go, does anybody think the government isn't going to grab all they think they can get away with?
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Coinstartled, once again your business analysis of Ebay is completely idiotic.
You are crazy if you think the B&M stores have gained an advantage, just not true.
The internet was a place not to make money when it first opened up, just basic advertising.
Now the internet is mature in full swing and the profits from small businesses using the internet are exploding.
"crazy" and "idiotic" in the same post?
Careful or Jmlanzaf will be along to lecture you on the forum rules.
it could mean no dinner or tv tonight.
Can't we all just get along?
We all know the prejudice @Coinstartled brings to the discussion. There is little point in getting mad about it. Just post the facts and let the reasonable readers draw their own conclusions.
Prejudice means to prejudge. 17 years doing business on the site hardly qualifies.
@Coinstartled said:
Some back of the napkin math here.
A fellow wants to buy some gold and figures an MS65 Saint in PCGS plastic is a good way to go. Say that spot is at $1400 and he buys the coin on Ebay for $1500. Add in 8% sales tax so he is all in at $1620 delivered.
A year later he decides to sell and though gold has not gone up in that time, gem MS65 Saints are still bringing $1500 on Ebay.
The guy sets up a store for $28 and sells the coin at the $1500 market price. The seller fee of 6.15% totals $92 and add in $44 for Paypal. The guy books his own insurance (what the hell) so his priority shipping cost with sig confirm is $10.
So he paid $1620 for the coin and after all the fees, realizes $1326. A nearly 20% hit on a pretty basic numismatic coin.
Is Ebay still an efficient marketplace for the casual collector?
I am late to this thread and the subject has been beaten to death but I will add my 2c anyway.
With an 8% sales tax and no change in the price, I don't see how any retail buyer in this situation would expect to lose much less. Even if eBay fees were lower as in the past, the pct loss would still be noticeable. I don't see that any other outcome should be expected.
The example used is a bullion substitute. If I were worried about resale, I'd buy an AGE with a 3% spread and wouldn't sell it on eBay either.
@skier07
I think this “experienced coin dealer” will be out of business if he continues overpaying or speculating.
It wasn't a 1904 and its PQ in an older NGC holder so it has a shot at 65. My pics were good enough to ballpark the grade. I hope some day the BST forum can regain its glory.
Come on, give me a break. You were selling a 1900 $20 Liberty with a big copper spot on the neck when gold was quite a bit lower.
Sorry, but no break.
The coin sold on Ebay on June 22. I pulled the listing from the BST forum a day earlier when I saw bids coming in. Gold spent several days between $1340 and $1390 while the coin was still available on the BST. Full disclosure: I did have one offer on the BST but he was unable to come up with the funds before the Ebay bids.
The buyer has over 5000 feedback ratings and been active for over 10 years dealing coins.
The spot was small and I've seen many gem gold coins with spots.
I don’t recall anything about some internet promise, been active on the bay buying and selling since 1998; could care less.
Online is what you make it. As far as the saint buyer (tight margin material) above he is making freewill choices (poor biz decisions)which result in a loss. A 5 star player buys that material right, sight seen at shows, takes tables at shows, and flips it quickly for a few bucks or can play the investor card just buries it in Sdb till gold goes up. He knows what he can Flip it for before buying. Focus on material / choices which can bring high margin.
@MFeld said:
Per his earlier post:
“Sadly, all of the MS65 Saints that I need to complete my registry date set can’t be found on eBay for anything below $2,500. 😥
Need 1907, 1909, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932.”
He did say date set and there isn't any 1916 or 1930 ("P")
@MFeld said:
Per his earlier post:
“Sadly, all of the MS65 Saints that I need to complete my registry date set can’t be found on eBay for anything below $2,500. 😥
Need 1907, 1909, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932.”
He did say date set and there isn't any 1916 or 1930 ("P")
@MFeld said:
Per his earlier post:
“Sadly, all of the MS65 Saints that I need to complete my registry date set can’t be found on eBay for anything below $2,500. 😥
Need 1907, 1909, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932.”
He did say date set and there isn't any 1916 or 1930 ("P")
I understand. I copied his post in response to your question regarding what grades he was looking for. Of course, the 1921, in particular, would be quite a long shot in MS65.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld said:
I understand. I copied his post in response to your question regarding what grades he was looking for. Of course, the 1921, >in particular, would be quite a long shot in MS65.😉
Off hand I think there is ONE of them
And ONE 65+ & Two of the 66
Unless you have a bag of them you're sitting on
Also, there are only two 1920 in 65 and they are spoken for. (midsouth & Duckor/?)
@MFeld said:
I understand. I copied his post in response to your question regarding what grades he was looking for. Of course, the 1921, >in particular, would be quite a long shot in MS65.😉
Off hand I think there is ONE of them
And ONE 65+ & Two of the 66
Unless you have a bag of them you're sitting on
Also, there are only two 1920 in 65 and they are spoken for. (midsouth & Duckor/?)
I’m beginning to think that not all of the dates needed will be bought as MS65’s.🤔
😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@ErrorsOnCoins said:
Coinstartled, once again your business analysis of Ebay is completely idiotic.
You are crazy if you think the B&M stores have gained an advantage, just not true.
The internet was a place not to make money when it first opened up, just basic advertising.
Now the internet is mature in full swing and the profits from small businesses using the internet are exploding.
"crazy" and "idiotic" in the same post?
Careful or Jmlanzaf will be along to lecture you on the forum rules.
it could mean no dinner or tv tonight.
Can't we all just get along?
We all know the prejudice @Coinstartled brings to the discussion. There is little point in getting mad about it. Just post the facts and let the reasonable readers draw their own conclusions.
Prejudice means to prejudge. 17 years doing business on the site hardly qualifies.
Would you simply prefer "bias"? Either way, you are not at all objective in this discussion.
Bias is fine, but the numbers in my examples are accurate.
I’m beginning to think that not all of the dates needed will be bought as MS65’s.🤔
Can you get them on eBay? If not, does that mean the efficient promise of the internet had vanished? Just wondering.
LOL. If I bid on Heritage Live, doesn't that also fulfill the "efficient promise of the internet"?
Before the scotus ruling permitting states to demand collection of sales taxes by out of state sellers, Heritage I believe only colected sales tax from customers in the states that they operated in. As their satellite offices expanded the number of taxable buyers expanded as well.
@jmlanzaf said:
The cheapest way to sell any coin is to post ads to FB and meet people directly in parking lots. [Bring a gun cuz they might.]
This is bad advice for security reasons. Moreover gun laws are not friendly in many parts of the country. There was a dealer at the Parsippany, NJ coin 3 years ago that kept a gun for security reasons. The gun accidentally discharged in his pocket and the bullet ricocheted from the floor, grazing another vendor. No one was seriously hurt, and it was clearly an accident. Nevertheless the vendor was prosecuted for lack of a permit or some other reason that I don't believe related to the discharge itself. NJ was so rabid in its prosecution that they even successfully blocked him from entering pretrial intervention that would allowed him to have the case dismissed after community service.
I sell maybe 50-60 $20 gold each year. Some on E-Bay some elsewhere. I never paid a composite 6.15% since E-bay was subsidizing me over the course of a year (as you can see I'm a small seller). Over the past few years my adjusted rate was probably closer to 3.5%.
So... as a small seller I was paying closer to 71/4-7 1/2 % including Paypal and shipping on double eagles.
In addition, they were subsidizing buyers with e-bucks which also helped my selling price. Even With no e-buck specials, buyers were receiving 3% off each purchase (CC + e-bucks) which didn't hurt the final value price.
I'm not sure what is happening so I ask....Are the auction sites taking a vig of less than 8% now?
Just seeing this and the other posts related to my comment. I am likely to find the 1907, 1914 (D&S) and the 1916s in MS65 at a $2,500-$3,000 price on ebay. The 1909 is one you can find on ebay in 65 occasionally in the $3,500-$4,000 range. The 1912 and 1913 in 65 will be a little more.
The rest (1920, 1921, and 1929-1932) are cost prohibitive in 65, though I might find a nice 1920 in 64?
A really nice MS63 old holder Saint sold the other day for under $1400, not uncommon with $20 gold coins that should be transacted elsewhere. If buyers are paying sales tax and sellers are paying 10% or more ebay/pay pal, it makes no economic sense. Most of these losing transactions are probably not coin dealers selling, but pawn shops, etc., unknowledgeable people, or possibly a dealer offering to let the ebay results ride at the detriment of someone looking to liquidate at auction.
Or Apmex and the like. I'm not sure what they pay in fees, but it is less than the rest of us. Although I still don't know why THEY bother.
For the one item I looked at...
$20 Liberty Gold Double Eagle BU (Random Year)
they do charge more on eBay than they charge on their website. Perhaps the difference covers the fees, and they can then work on getting any return business direct through their website.
Or Apmex and the like. I'm not sure what they pay in fees, but it is less than the rest of us. Although I still don't know why THEY bother.
For the one item I looked at...
$20 Liberty Gold Double Eagle BU (Random Year)
they do charge more on eBay than they charge on their website. Perhaps the difference covers the fees, and they can then work on getting any return business direct through their website.
It's not their standard offerings, it's some of their specials. When they are selling Maple Leafs for $14.99 over spot with free shipping and CC payment, you've gotta wonder why.
I always assume that they are obligated to buy a certain number of Maple Leafs from their network.. All the coins that thy deem perfect are sent to be graded. The rest are sold as BU's. usually the payment is a wire and as I recall they have a working relationship with E-Bay so what is their real costs? I suspect they break even on the BU's and make a few dollars on the 70's.
All in all they need to buy inventory and if the coins are slow to move they put out specials and move on?
Comments
Al Gore, part of his invention.
Must not have paying attention- sorry.
It was a marketing revolution, it changed everything.
We ar> @MasonG said:
Internet was granted tax free status for a number of years. Ebay founder Pierre Omidyar offered a level playing field.
Today Jeff Bezos is worth $125,000,000,000 and Errorsoncoins drives around in a twenty year old junker.
Nice dig, once again you show your lack of knowledge about the best 4wd ever made and the deal of a lifetime.
You probably buy new cars huh? I never have.
I'm not mad, I would think it extremely funny if it was not soooo Pathetic.
eBay's founder is not running the show today. Companies change, people can either deal with it or not. As far as taxes go, does anybody think the government isn't going to grab all they think they can get away with?
Prejudice means to prejudge. 17 years doing business on the site hardly qualifies.
I am late to this thread and the subject has been beaten to death but I will add my 2c anyway.
With an 8% sales tax and no change in the price, I don't see how any retail buyer in this situation would expect to lose much less. Even if eBay fees were lower as in the past, the pct loss would still be noticeable. I don't see that any other outcome should be expected.
The example used is a bullion substitute. If I were worried about resale, I'd buy an AGE with a 3% spread and wouldn't sell it on eBay either.
Sorry, but no break.
The coin sold on Ebay on June 22. I pulled the listing from the BST forum a day earlier when I saw bids coming in. Gold spent several days between $1340 and $1390 while the coin was still available on the BST. Full disclosure: I did have one offer on the BST but he was unable to come up with the funds before the Ebay bids.
The buyer has over 5000 feedback ratings and been active for over 10 years dealing coins.
The spot was small and I've seen many gem gold coins with spots.
For anyone not already bored:
I vote for LOL
Huy Turtle, I went fishing two days ago
Have you been out recently?
I don’t recall anything about some internet promise, been active on the bay buying and selling since 1998; could care less.
Online is what you make it. As far as the saint buyer (tight margin material) above he is making freewill choices (poor biz decisions)which result in a loss. A 5 star player buys that material right, sight seen at shows, takes tables at shows, and flips it quickly for a few bucks or can play the investor card just buries it in Sdb till gold goes up. He knows what he can Flip it for before buying. Focus on material / choices which can bring high margin.
Forget about 21 & anything beyond 29 soooo....
7, 9, 12, 13, 14, 16 & 20
Let's try easy first...Maybe 14-S & 16-S next??
What grades are you looking for?
My Saint Set
Per his earlier post:
“Sadly, all of the MS65 Saints that I need to complete my registry date set can’t be found on eBay for anything below $2,500. 😥
Need 1907, 1909, 1912, 1913, 1914, 1916, 1920, 1921, 1929, 1930, 1931 and 1932.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
He did say date set and there isn't any 1916 or 1930 ("P")
My Saint Set
I understand. I copied his post in response to your question regarding what grades he was looking for. Of course, the 1921, in particular, would be quite a long shot in MS65.😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Off hand I think there is ONE of them
& Two of the 66 
And ONE 65+
Unless you have a bag of them you're sitting on
Also, there are only two 1920 in 65 and they are spoken for. (midsouth & Duckor/?)
My Saint Set
I’m beginning to think that not all of the dates needed will be bought as MS65’s.🤔
😉
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Can you get them on eBay? If not, does that mean the efficient promise of the internet had vanished? Just wondering.
what state are you in that charges 8% sales tax for gold?
what would it take for you to get a resellers permit so no tax is paid when you buy?
run your figures again with $1750 sale price.
Bias is fine, but the numbers in my examples are accurate.
You could still get a nice gem 14-S for under $2500 but I think you're out of luck on the other ones.
My Saint Set
I'm not sure, but I think it has to be eBay.
Before the scotus ruling permitting states to demand collection of sales taxes by out of state sellers, Heritage I believe only colected sales tax from customers in the states that they operated in. As their satellite offices expanded the number of taxable buyers expanded as well.
Mr. Feld can correct me if I am wrong.
Suggestion for title edit...
Is transacting Gem Saints on Ebay cost prohibitive?
Suggestion for title edit...
Is transacting low margin (fill in the blank for margin) items cost prohibitive?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Even better.
This is bad advice for security reasons. Moreover gun laws are not friendly in many parts of the country. There was a dealer at the Parsippany, NJ coin 3 years ago that kept a gun for security reasons. The gun accidentally discharged in his pocket and the bullet ricocheted from the floor, grazing another vendor. No one was seriously hurt, and it was clearly an accident. Nevertheless the vendor was prosecuted for lack of a permit or some other reason that I don't believe related to the discharge itself. NJ was so rabid in its prosecution that they even successfully blocked him from entering pretrial intervention that would allowed him to have the case dismissed after community service.
Suggestion for edit on Heritage terms:
"Free shipping on all auction wins!"
I sell maybe 50-60 $20 gold each year. Some on E-Bay some elsewhere. I never paid a composite 6.15% since E-bay was subsidizing me over the course of a year (as you can see I'm a small seller). Over the past few years my adjusted rate was probably closer to 3.5%.
So... as a small seller I was paying closer to 71/4-7 1/2 % including Paypal and shipping on double eagles.
In addition, they were subsidizing buyers with e-bucks which also helped my selling price. Even With no e-buck specials, buyers were receiving 3% off each purchase (CC + e-bucks) which didn't hurt the final value price.
I'm not sure what is happening so I ask....Are the auction sites taking a vig of less than 8% now?
Swamped at work, trying to get out this weekend if i can fight the crowds, but surfs up a bit.
I have my Colonial set to photograph if I am stuck on dry land...
Here are some related questions. I'm not sure what's behind the reason to pick on eBay. Be equal opportunity
Just seeing this and the other posts related to my comment. I am likely to find the 1907, 1914 (D&S) and the 1916s in MS65 at a $2,500-$3,000 price on ebay. The 1909 is one you can find on ebay in 65 occasionally in the $3,500-$4,000 range. The 1912 and 1913 in 65 will be a little more.
The rest (1920, 1921, and 1929-1932) are cost prohibitive in 65, though I might find a nice 1920 in 64?
Indian Head $10 Gold Set Album
Just saw this one that would be a nice snag for under 2K
https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/1914-s-20-ms65-pcgs/a/1297-3944.s
All the other nice ones I've seen are CAC'ers w/ Cack$
My Saint Set
OP - Try it and give us a report.
Where do you plan be on those vs CDN bid?
A really nice MS63 old holder Saint sold the other day for under $1400, not uncommon with $20 gold coins that should be transacted elsewhere. If buyers are paying sales tax and sellers are paying 10% or more ebay/pay pal, it makes no economic sense. Most of these losing transactions are probably not coin dealers selling, but pawn shops, etc., unknowledgeable people, or possibly a dealer offering to let the ebay results ride at the detriment of someone looking to liquidate at auction.
For the one item I looked at...
$20 Liberty Gold Double Eagle BU (Random Year)
they do charge more on eBay than they charge on their website. Perhaps the difference covers the fees, and they can then work on getting any return business direct through their website.
I always assume that they are obligated to buy a certain number of Maple Leafs from their network.. All the coins that thy deem perfect are sent to be graded. The rest are sold as BU's. usually the payment is a wire and as I recall they have a working relationship with E-Bay so what is their real costs? I suspect they break even on the BU's and make a few dollars on the 70's.
All in all they need to buy inventory and if the coins are slow to move they put out specials and move on?