Why does USPS require value for registered mail?
ACop
Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
It has been awhile since I've sent a registered mail item but I was sending a coin today and the lady asked me what the value was. I told her I rather not say as I was not buying insurance. She insisted that I MUST give a value. I asked why and she said that many people make the mistake of asking for registered when they really want priority. I assured her I wasnt making that mistake. She handed me the slip to fill out and sure enough it had a mandatory declared value box. So I gave in and put an accurate number in. But I dont like it.
If the goal is to secure the item, broadcasting the value even to a USPS employee seems illogical. Ive only lost 1 package in my life and it was stolen by an employee.
She also told me I was breaking the rules by using clear tape to secure the envelope at the seams. But I figured this was more of her deciding she didnt like me for raising questions about the value.
Comments
My understanding is the level of security will increase as the value of the package does. Shipping a $5,000,000 Faberge Egg, they will not just dump it in a locked bin waiting for the next signature.
I have shipped many Registered packages without incident. Can take up to two weeks though so not always good for Ebay sales.
I don't understand why you argued. If it is lost your insurance carrier will likely want proof of shipment and if it has the value right there on the receipt it would be best for you, right? Also, their requirement of the paper tape is for a reason. That way they can stamp all seams, etc and thus protect your item. Clear tape will not take the circular stamp ink properly.
Maybe just ship FedEx or UPS next time and then you can do it your way.
bob
I believe the postal clerk was correct about the tape and not just picking on you. Also, it seems reasonable that a value be declared and certainly better that it’s done before (rather than after) there’s an issue.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It's been quite a while since I shipped anything registered but I remember the cost of shipping was determined by the declared value of what was being shipped. Seems that was for included insurance. I've slept since then so my memory may be way off.
My War Nickels https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/nickels/jefferson-nickels-specialty-sets/jefferson-nickels-fs-basic-war-set-circulation-strikes-1942-1945/publishedset/94452
Q: "Can I Opt Out of Purchasing Insurance with domestic Registered Mail®?"
A: "No. You must declare the full value of the mailpiece when presenting it for mailing. Insurance matching the declared value of the item(s) is included up to $50,000. Registered Mail may only be sent without postal insurance if the item(s) has no declared value. If a customer declared that the item(s) has no value, they are not eligible for reimbursement of the cost of the item(s) should loss, damage, or missing contents occur."
https://faq.usps.com/s/article/Can-I-Opt-Out-of-Purchasing-Insurance-with-domestic-Registered-Mail
So let's walk this out. I put $1500 declared value in this case. "an issue" arises. Now what?
And lets put in another scenario. I put in 1 million on a $5 item and its lost. Now what?
2nd sentence might clear that up "I was not buying insurance"
OK this is a valid answer then. I dont think this was always the case that insurance to be included automatically. Im not sure I like it though. If I did want insurance and used my own provider, do I then get to claim payment from both?
Last year, for reasons of the buyer, I shipped a six-figure coin cross-country via registered mail. Small box, The buyer had $5,000 deductible but had me put a value of maybe $600 to make the package appear even more innocuous. His insurance company covered the other $100,000+ with a rider specifically tied to the package registration #.
The cost of the package was under $20.
Postal insurance is extortionately expensive, but for most besides dealers, the only game in town.
If you don't want insurance, lie.
Say $1 and shut up if they tell you that you must buy $2 of insurance
If you want to keep bullion in your SDB, lie
Clear tape has never been allowed on Registered Mail. It won't take a permanent cancel.
It wasn't, but apparently the post office got tired of providing security during shipping and not getting paid for it while private insurance companies collected the insurance fees.
If you wanted the security of Registered mail, without paying for insurance, guess the answer is: You could have put the value as $0.00??
(Of course, I'd check with your OTHER insurer about what proof they require to cover you....)
The clerk will read your form, say "one dollar??", That funny look is not an official USPS policy, though it is policy to suggest "insured" might be better because "it's less expensive", just say "Thanks, no" and breathe as 1.00 is entered and the clerk goes on to the next box. The computer will calculate the insurance. It will fall somewhere between two cents and two bucks. The clerk will read the total in a bored monotone and ask if it's cash or credit.
.
Or....Please put your value as 0.00, Now calculate how much each precious moment of your life is worth, and how you want to spend your next one.
I read Mary Oliver's "The Journey" yesterday. I think it's affecting my writing.
From the DMM:
3.2 Proof of Value
Either the mailer or the addressee must submit acceptable proof to establish the cost or value of the article at the time it was mailed. Proof of value should be submitted electronically or attached to the claim form under 1.5; otherwise, the claim cannot be processed. Other proof may be requested to help determine an accurate value.
It's been a while for me since I've used Registered Mail. The PO puts the Red Label on the box then a price label and that's it. Yes you fill out the little form they keep one (2?) and you keep one. Is older age catching up to me?
You did not read the fine print.
They lie in wait for that... like in license renewal lines and at speed traps... 
Has your police experience informed you of the proper beta-blockers to take to beat the postal inspector's lie detector? Assuming you can find out in advance what day they're coming?
It's not really his area, but maybe @SanctionII can give you some advice on whether the USPS is constitutionally required to Mirandize you,
The first 37 questions are just to help them tune the equipment.
Has anyone ever told you that you have the look of someone in denial about (nooo, not your oft-proclaimed sexual ambivalences but) how you missed out on those last three promotions?
Well you just side railed my next thread which was to ask why the counter lady was asking about my sexual ambivalences for the mailing.
I would not risk value declaration shenanigans on our valuable coins. If it were lost, I’d sure like having the insurance/value declared.
I hate when a nosey USPS person asks what it is. I now say “a custom fabricated valve”.
I am surprised by a couple of things in this thread.
1 I am surprised that you coin collectors dont value the idea of privacy here. That was ultimately my reason for not wanting to disclose. Let me clarify something I may not have made clear. The lady INSISTED I provide the information. I was more than happy to say no thanks and move on. But she did not allow this. I cherish the days the world allows me to move on with little to minimal interaction, I promise.
2 I am also surprised everyone here seems to trust the USPS insurance to the degree im being told to just accept it and move on. Of course I am not implying intent to scam the insurance process. But merely highlighting an a real problem with an extreme situation
Ill explain. When providing proof of value, if you paid for something or someone paid you that price, then great easy peasy. But in this case, I was returning a coin to a friend whom had sent it to me for Roger to look at last year. The coin was not recently sold and even his acquisition involved trade. There is no receipt to provide value proof and the coin is not priced in the price guides as to what it is. For simplicity assume its a monster toner. Where does one go look up proof for a toner that was traded for other toners? Good luck. Its a no win situation if theres a need for an insurance claim, for which I was forced to pay for which in reality is offering ZERO protection
I always just look at em, shake my head and say, well if I knew that I wouldn't be shipping it in the first freaking place now would I?
Again, from the DMM:
4.1 Payable Claim
Insurance for loss or damage to insured, COD, or Registered Mail within the amount covered by the fee paid, or the indemnity limits for Priority Mail, or Priority Mail Express (under 4.2), is payable for the following:
For stamps and coins of philatelic or numismatic value; the fair market value is determined by a recognized stamp or coin dealer or current coin and stamp collectors’ newsletters and trade papers. The date of the fair market value determination must be current and prior to the mailing date.
You certainly were buying insurance since it is now included in the registered fee.
And exacly how would a coin dealer determine the value of a coin he cant look at?
I was not KNOWINGLY or IMPLICITLY buying insurance.
This. The declared (insured) value affects the overall price.
The tape issue: Clerk is correct. You have to use a paper tape to cover all seams. The postal stamp applied over this tape to indicate future tampering will not adhere to plastic tape.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I don't know. I'm just trying to help by pointing out the post office's official policy regarding claims. Maybe USPS shipping is not for you?
My insurance carrier requires that you put down -$0- value on the registered form. They want the privacy ACop speaks of.
If you put down $0 value, you are opting out of USPS insurance. Therefore, you are not required to declare any value, and the postal worker was not following the rules by insisting on a declaration of value.
This seems to be a common misperception, I experienced it numerous times. I had to sit down with the manager at my post office and review the USPS rules so that the workers there understood that you are not required to declare a value for registered mail.
Since the 1780s, you have had to secure the seams on registered mail. It used to be wax seals on paper, now it's just the date cancellation on brown paper. Always been that way.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Just put $0 for the value and you can eat the loss if the package is lost. Since you won't be filing for insurance, it need not have a value.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
But the postal worker was correct in stating that clear tape is not allowed for registered packages.
What type of packaging should I use for Registered Mail?
No USPS employees, including window clerks, may help you prepare or seal Registered Mail.
Mail must bear the complete names and delivery information of both the sender and recipient.
Padded, Tyvek, plastic, self-sealing or glossy-coated envelopes may not be mailed registered.
Must be sealed with glue, plain paper tape, or cloth tape. (Tape must absorb ink and must visibly damage the envelope or wrapper if removed).
The fee and postage may be paid with ordinary stamps, meter stamps, or permit imprints.
All customers except Firm Mailers must fill out PS Form 3811 (Return Receipt) and check the "Restricted Delivery" box to restrict delivery to the addressee only.
30+ years ago @MrEureka had a "registered" package go missing - contents - an aluminum Stella with the appropriate market value declaration of IIRC $30,000. Got grilled by postal inspectors about paperwork, supplied it, got paid in maybe five or so months.
It would be naïve to think that priorities are not assigned to higher-valued items in terms of recovery efforts.
It would be pathetic to believe that every insurance payment is not scheduled to the benefit of the insurer. Same as it ever was.
While always under-funded, the unintended secondary gain (not to the customer, but to the postal inspector sub-system) is that (actuarily) people thus get discouraged and exert less effort to submit claims, thus reducing the number of unhappy customers to be served.
Translation: The smaller guys are more likely to be screwed.
Which is how the term "self-insured" was born.
But 40 years doing this and I've damn near never heard of a Registered going missing and a documented valid claim being denied. Eventual payment sucks as a cash-flow value, Avoiding a direct hit to your net worth? Priceless.
If you declared more than zero value then you were buying insurance. You just didn't know it at the time. You could have just put $0.00 as the value.
All she insisted on was a value which could have been zero since she needed the amount to know how much to charge. If you wished to have the coin insured by another insurer then the onus would have been on the receiving party to prove value since it wasn't yours. You should have had value determined before you shipped.
You were ignorant of the current status of RM, but at least you chose the right way to ship.
$0 is a declared value. Postal worker was correct, an entry has to be made in the declared value block, even if it is $0.
If one does not want a postal clerk who is applying insurance to your registered shipment to know the value of your shipment then don't buy insurance. Enter zero as a declared value and take your chances or get a private insurance carrier.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I have put in 0.00 before and it was accepted.
You MUST declare a value even if it is ZERO. You can't leave it blank.
Not sure how you are parsing the words, because I agree.
I trust RM enough that I sometimes declare $0.00 value to save on fees.
I always use $0 as the value, as I have my own insurance, and I never get any flack from clerks.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
2.2.1 Declaring Full Value
The mailer must always declare the item’s full value (see chart below) to the USPS (by stating it to the USPS clerk or entering it on the firm sheet if a firm mailer) when presenting it for registration and mailing. Private insurance carried on Registered Mail does not modify the requirements for declaring the full value. The accepting USPS employee may ask the mailer to show that the full value of the matter presented is declared, and may refuse to accept the matter as Registered Mail if a satisfactory declaration of value is not provided. Only articles of no value may be mailed as Registered Mail without insurance.
https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/503.htm#ep1238627
As suggested in the second post, RM security is in part based on value. The higher the value, the better the security. It would indeed be foolish to declare $0 or $5K value if shipping a $100K item.
A manuscript would be an example of a $0 value uninsurable item.
I didn't read each and every response here, but enough to get the gist of it. You're using a service. This service has rules. Instead of just following the rules, you have to resist and question everything. I'm getting old and cranky, but this stuff is like an epidemic these days. Isn't it much easier to just tell them the value and go on about your day?
What was the outcome of all the bullion that was lost by USPS a year or so back that contained alot of rare silver bars and gold bullion? As I recall there were two packages and not fully insured?
It was a big topic for a long time but I never heard the outcome?
Its called Entitlement
Ill sum it for you. I was wrong to assume I couldn't just put 0 and opt for no insurance. Which means, you are also wrong.
Its called not being a sheep and accepting everything as seemingly you 2 are. Yes I was wrong for not knowing the rules, ie not knowing I could decline by putting 0. The lady should have told me I had the option of no insurance by declaring 0. If I made my clients believe they had to pay me for something they did not, it would be called fraud. You are now entitled to these...
The correct way the lady should have handled this was to inform me that insurance was included if I declared a value and that I had the option to waive it by putting 0. Thats called proper customer service. You old grouches calling me entitled must do a lot of reading. Have you read the 2000 pages that accompany your phone agreements?
Did admitting the value cost you a bazillion dollars extra or something? Your OP simply gives the impression that you didn't like having to tell somebody what they are required to ask you. I guess I must have missed what the big deal is.
And the nazis were required to ask for papers.