I wanted to point out that the OP has a total of 25 posts........................that's 25 posts as a member of this forum and 25 posts to this thread. from the very beginning it was a self-serving attempt at generating interest in a coin owned by the OP and currently for sale. what probably should have been done was a PM to a moderator so the thread could be moved to the proper venue, the B/S/T Forum. it is a little late for that now.
perhaps that is meaningless and perhaps it tells us all we need to know. experience teaches me that quite often I will post about something here and not receive quite the reception I had intended or hoped for. this coin was viewed and "taken to the woodshed" in less than half-an-hour by an acknowledged Numismatist who knows how to grade and has experience with coins of this caliber. to my way of thinking there were two choices for the OP: ask questions and try to learn --- or --- defend the kingdom.
the coin will sell on its own merit, though it will probably be looked at as a result of this thread. we'll have to wait a short while for that but the reports should bring this thread TTT in about three weeks. my suggestion for the OP is simple, between now and then you need to understand that their are quite a number of members/collectors who are more experienced than you and more objective than you. I expect them to give an honest in-hand assessment of your coin although I don't expect you to be very receptive of that honesty.
I only have pictures and my own naivete to judge the coin by, but I think that is enough. it seems to be rather dark and despite the brightly lit glamour shots not very attractive with minor problems. my prediction --- $12k hammer/juice.
I think the OP was trying to hype his coin (in poor taste as mentioned in at least one reply) and has only managed to bring to light through well educated and thoughtful replies, the limitations of the specimen itself. I also agree with @keets that this should have originally been posted in the BST thread.
Oh I think we could overlook this being posted on the BST given the nature of the beast as we would not have been granted the valuable input of TDN, Jessup, Laura, Feld etc., a veritable compendium of numismatic knowledge who would have been highly unlikely to have seen the thread there unless they are all actively seeking rolls of circ wheats, 90% junkers, or the latest US Mint offerings.
@AmazingIntellect said:
Oh I think we could overlook this being posted on the BST given the nature of the beast as we would not have been granted the valuable input of TDN, Jessup, Laura, Feld etc., a veritable compendium of numismatic knowledge who would have been highly unlikely to have seen the thread there unless they are all actively seeking rolls of circ wheats, 90% junkers, or the latest US Mint offerings.
totally agreed - this whole novel would have been lost to the masses.
I don't know. While the OP's hype should be on the BST, this has been an educational discussion about technical vs. commercial grading. I think we all learned something...well, most of us.
Listen if this coin is undergraded we will found> @Insider2 said:
Also the link to the Open forum that broke away please. Thanks!
Just a warning you can check out anytime you want but you can never leave. It’s in the fine print
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If the owner feels the coin is under graded, why didn't they cross it or crack it out seeking the right grade. That way they max out their money. Strike does not always equal under graded.
if the coins sell strong then the owner was right. If not, its just another uneducated guess. And do not think the coin will be overlooked. The crack out guys look at every single coin!
specialistspecialist Posts: 854 ✭✭✭✭✭ May 2, 2019 2:31AM
"I do not understand what originally was said.
If the owner feels the coin is under graded, why didn't they cross it or crack it out seeking the right grade. That way they max out their money. Strike does not always equal under graded.
if the coins sell strong then the owner was right. If not, its just another uneducated guess. And do not think the coin will be overlooked. The crack out guys look at every single coin!"
I wanted to show that the reverse is far better than in the Stack's Bowers photo, which it is. The coin needs to be angled to light to see the superb detail, which is not obvious otherwise. It can be missed. I had pointed this out to SB when I consigned it, but, if NGC didn't see it, probably PCGS also would. Why pay a second fee?
I know the quality of the surfaces is essential in assigning a low-end or high-end MS grade; but the SB photos show how smooth they are, and the cataloguer also made this point, so I didn't touch on it.
I always compare my coins with online photos of others of the same type; but saw higher graded coins with poorly-struck, blurred or weak details on either or both sides. Mine has neither. Any other MS61 I saw did not hold a candle to it.
The aggressive and untrue accusations which streamed in from all sides obscured the issue; and the sheer volume of them sometimes merited a reply. I hope they have stopped, but can live with the ranting of a few.
I am indeed new to the Forum, and did not expect such suspicion and hostility. I am sure there are folk who write in it who are very knowledgeable, and appreciate their help and comments.
I hope this helps you to understand better!
to the OP: how many examples of this issue have you actually held in your hands to examine?? how familiar are you with the strike characteristics of this issue?? how experienced overall are you at grading??
my reason for asking these questions is because the very objective criticism you have received here is from members with experience that includes actually having this coin type in-hand multiples of times to compare. add to that your complete disdain for the opinion of the graders at both NGC and PCGS who, again, have seen many of these coins and are quite familiar with the strike characteristics and nuances of grading. all these people know more about this than you do. your experience seems to be limited to this coin and comparative pictures of other coins, a very poor way to make an assessment of quality.
there have been perhaps four different sets of pictures posted here in an attempt to show the "true appearance" of this little coin. the link below goes to the NGC cert check page which gives an honest if not too flattering view of a darkly toned coin with suspiciously questionable surfaces. with different lighting techniques it is hard to judge from images what the coin actually looks like. as specialist noted, everyone who counts will look at this coin and they all know what they're doing. they don't spend $10k+ based on an image that has been manipulated to its best advantage.
@grivennik said:
specialistspecialist Posts: 854 ✭✭✭✭✭ May 2, 2019 2:31AM
"I do not understand what originally was said.
If the owner feels the coin is under graded, why didn't they cross it or crack it out seeking the right grade. That way they max out their money. Strike does not always equal under graded.
if the coins sell strong then the owner was right. If not, its just another uneducated guess. And do not think the coin will be overlooked. The crack out guys look at every single coin!"
I wanted to show that the reverse is far better than in the Stack's Bowers photo, which it is. The coin needs to be angled to light to see the superb detail, which is not obvious otherwise. It can be missed. I had pointed this out to SB when I consigned it, but, if NGC didn't see it, probably PCGS also would. Why pay a second fee?
I know the quality of the surfaces is essential in assigning a low-end or high-end MS grade; but the SB photos show how smooth they are, and the cataloguer also made this point, so I didn't touch on it.
I always compare my coins with online photos of others of the same type; but saw higher graded coins with poorly-struck, blurred or weak details on either or both sides. Mine has neither. Any other MS61 I saw did not hold a candle to it.
The aggressive and untrue accusations which streamed in from all sides obscured the issue; and the sheer volume of them sometimes merited a reply. I hope they have stopped, but can live with the ranting of a few.
I am indeed new to the Forum, and did not expect such suspicion and hostility. I am sure there are folk who write in it who are very knowledgeable, and appreciate their help and comments.
I hope this helps you to understand better!
Let me get this right: NGC doesn't see it. PCGS won't see it. CAC doesn't see it. The camera doesn't see it.
@grivennik said: "I know the quality of the surfaces is essential in assigning a low-end or high-end MS grade; but the SB photos show how smooth they are, and the cataloguer also made this point, so I didn't touch on it. I always compare my coins with online photos of others of the same type; but saw higher graded coins with poorly-struck, blurred or weak details on either or both sides. Mine has neither. Any other MS61 I saw did not hold a candle to it.
You seem to be hung up with the quality of a coin's strike. Let me remind you that "strike" is ONLY one characteristic used to judge a coin's MS grade. Unfortunately, today it is not considered as important as it once was. So what? Your coin has a better than average strike. Most here seem to agree.
Therefore, there is either something else on the coin that resulted in the grade or the graders and many of us here who accept the grade are wrong! We'll see.
I'm wondering what the code words "smooth surfaces" indicates.
@keets said:
I think you might be thinking "smoothed" surfaces, but stop you silly insults!!
NOPE! If the auction house used the word "SMOOTHED," no cute "auction speak" would apply. That's why I'm curious. I've been known to describe a mangy dog (not the OP's) with enough flowery BS to make it sound like the "Queen's Hound."
Queen Elizabeth II walking her dogs at Windsor Castle
WINDSOR, UNITED KINGDOM - APRIL 2: Queen Elizabeth II walking her dogs at Windsor Castle, on April 2, 1994 in Windsor, United Kingdom . (Photo by Julian Parker/UK Press via Getty Images)
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
It only would have perhaps “helped” if someone from this forum or another bought it. Online coin forums represent such a minicule amount of coin buyers. The coin netted a price well below book value.
Edited to say I didn’t see @jmlanzaf’s response before I posted. I obviously agreed with him
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
It ranks high in google searches because of the sheer volume of words on these boards. It is still but a tiny fraction of the coin buyers out there. Or have you not noticed that about 50 people are responsible for 90% of the words on these boards.
Hence more visibility for this thread! I would love it if this was one of those forums that showed how many guests were looking. I bet the number of guests would be many multiples of registered users!
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
It ranks high in google searches because of the sheer volume of words on these boards. It is still but a tiny fraction of the coin buyers out there. Or have you not noticed that about 50 people are responsible for 90% of the words on these boards.
@Justacommeman said:
It only would have perhaps “helped” if someone from this forum or another bought it. Online coin forums represent such a minicule amount of coin buyers. The coin netted a price well below book value.
mark
Book value is TOO HIGH ! There is a correction going on . Look at the recent auction results .
I agree with you. Especially for NGC unstickered coins. I expected this to sell at around $8000. It did. I think that reflects todays market for what this is. Perhaps the OP did want to market this coin here to pump up the value. It didn’t work. That’s my point. It was always going to sell for less then book. The market spoke
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@amwldcoin said:
Hence more visibility for this thread! I would love it if this was one of those forums that showed how many guests were looking. I bet the number of guests would be many multiples of registered users!
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
It ranks high in google searches because of the sheer volume of words on these boards. It is still but a tiny fraction of the coin buyers out there. Or have you not noticed that about 50 people are responsible for 90% of the words on these boards.
You can see how many people are online. Main page, lower right side. 152 as of a few minutes ago.
Lets not agreed or this will turn into a spam fest and get removed.
It's a great thread and a great chance for many to learn too including the OP.
I almost can't wait for the actual sale and first hand feedback from the likes of whom we kn> @grivennik said:
'... the assessment of some that this coin has been cleaned. It could have been cleaned 20 years ago, 50 years ago, or quite likely 150 years ago when it was very common to do so.'
What assessment? You need to SEE the coin to make as assessment. No. Only someone with a closed mind or some prejudice does that. No rub on the coin whatever.** As graded, mint state; but a far higher mint state than 61.**
I dislike your offensive and vindictive persistence in criticising far more than anyone else.
It sold for average current 58 money. You (the OP) should have paid attention to the experts here, and there are many, but you chose to rant about how greater it really is, must be, ignoring logic and expertise feedback from others here.
Had this specimen graded 62, 63 or whatever you "wished" it to be, this one would have sold for many thousands more.
There are many Analytical posts in this thread from Numismatic Experts that are Very Educational and helpful for those of us who are interested in continuing to hone and sharpen our Coin ObservationandEvaluation skills.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
To Err Is Human.... To Collect Err's Is Just Too Much Darn Tootin Fun!
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
A perfect storm of below the norm
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
LOL . Good one .
IMO i thought price was fair for the weak/declining market we are in . I think starting this thread to pump the coin might have helped a tad bit .
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
A perfect storm of below the norm
Agree. No astute dealer would pay retail for that coin. ($7 to $8k) In the land of auction land mines this coin is liable to take someone’s foot or wallet
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Comments
I wanted to point out that the OP has a total of 25 posts........................that's 25 posts as a member of this forum and 25 posts to this thread. from the very beginning it was a self-serving attempt at generating interest in a coin owned by the OP and currently for sale. what probably should have been done was a PM to a moderator so the thread could be moved to the proper venue, the B/S/T Forum. it is a little late for that now.
perhaps that is meaningless and perhaps it tells us all we need to know. experience teaches me that quite often I will post about something here and not receive quite the reception I had intended or hoped for. this coin was viewed and "taken to the woodshed" in less than half-an-hour by an acknowledged Numismatist who knows how to grade and has experience with coins of this caliber. to my way of thinking there were two choices for the OP: ask questions and try to learn --- or --- defend the kingdom.
the coin will sell on its own merit, though it will probably be looked at as a result of this thread. we'll have to wait a short while for that but the reports should bring this thread TTT in about three weeks. my suggestion for the OP is simple, between now and then you need to understand that their are quite a number of members/collectors who are more experienced than you and more objective than you. I expect them to give an honest in-hand assessment of your coin although I don't expect you to be very receptive of that honesty.
I only have pictures and my own naivete to judge the coin by, but I think that is enough. it seems to be rather dark and despite the brightly lit glamour shots not very attractive with minor problems. my prediction --- $12k hammer/juice.
As Bruce so succinctly stated, wrong holder, no CAC speaks volumes. I eagerly await the Laura/Bruce assessment, as do we all I suspect.
Oh, the drama!
you called me out. I came.
And, in your very own words, "good on him for putting up with the BLIND and unkind remarks made here!"
I will double my bid on your coin if you can find any unkind remark I made about you or the coin.
Just noticed --- the coin is AU at the beginning of the thread and remains AU at the end of it (or at least to this point).
I think the OP was trying to hype his coin (in poor taste as mentioned in at least one reply) and has only managed to bring to light through well educated and thoughtful replies, the limitations of the specimen itself. I also agree with @keets that this should have originally been posted in the BST thread.
Oh I think we could overlook this being posted on the BST given the nature of the beast as we would not have been granted the valuable input of TDN, Jessup, Laura, Feld etc., a veritable compendium of numismatic knowledge who would have been highly unlikely to have seen the thread there unless they are all actively seeking rolls of circ wheats, 90% junkers, or the latest US Mint offerings.
totally agreed - this whole novel would have been lost to the masses.
totally agreed - this whole novel would have been lost to the masses.
yes, that is my reasoning for why it would have been better at the BST.
I don't know. While the OP's hype should be on the BST, this has been an educational discussion about technical vs. commercial grading. I think we all learned something...well, most of us.
Also the link to the Open forum that broke away please. Thanks!
PM sent with link.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Listen if this coin is undergraded we will found> @Insider2 said:
Just a warning you can check out anytime you want but you can never leave. It’s in the fine print
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Is that like Linkedin?
I do not understand what originally was said.
If the owner feels the coin is under graded, why didn't they cross it or crack it out seeking the right grade. That way they max out their money. Strike does not always equal under graded.
if the coins sell strong then the owner was right. If not, its just another uneducated guess. And do not think the coin will be overlooked. The crack out guys look at every single coin!
specialistspecialist Posts: 854 ✭✭✭✭✭ May 2, 2019 2:31AM
"I do not understand what originally was said.
If the owner feels the coin is under graded, why didn't they cross it or crack it out seeking the right grade. That way they max out their money. Strike does not always equal under graded.
if the coins sell strong then the owner was right. If not, its just another uneducated guess. And do not think the coin will be overlooked. The crack out guys look at every single coin!"
I wanted to show that the reverse is far better than in the Stack's Bowers photo, which it is. The coin needs to be angled to light to see the superb detail, which is not obvious otherwise. It can be missed. I had pointed this out to SB when I consigned it, but, if NGC didn't see it, probably PCGS also would. Why pay a second fee?
I know the quality of the surfaces is essential in assigning a low-end or high-end MS grade; but the SB photos show how smooth they are, and the cataloguer also made this point, so I didn't touch on it.
I always compare my coins with online photos of others of the same type; but saw higher graded coins with poorly-struck, blurred or weak details on either or both sides. Mine has neither. Any other MS61 I saw did not hold a candle to it.
The aggressive and untrue accusations which streamed in from all sides obscured the issue; and the sheer volume of them sometimes merited a reply. I hope they have stopped, but can live with the ranting of a few.
I am indeed new to the Forum, and did not expect such suspicion and hostility. I am sure there are folk who write in it who are very knowledgeable, and appreciate their help and comments.
I hope this helps you to understand better!
to the OP: how many examples of this issue have you actually held in your hands to examine?? how familiar are you with the strike characteristics of this issue?? how experienced overall are you at grading??
my reason for asking these questions is because the very objective criticism you have received here is from members with experience that includes actually having this coin type in-hand multiples of times to compare. add to that your complete disdain for the opinion of the graders at both NGC and PCGS who, again, have seen many of these coins and are quite familiar with the strike characteristics and nuances of grading. all these people know more about this than you do. your experience seems to be limited to this coin and comparative pictures of other coins, a very poor way to make an assessment of quality.
there have been perhaps four different sets of pictures posted here in an attempt to show the "true appearance" of this little coin. the link below goes to the NGC cert check page which gives an honest if not too flattering view of a darkly toned coin with suspiciously questionable surfaces. with different lighting techniques it is hard to judge from images what the coin actually looks like. as specialist noted, everyone who counts will look at this coin and they all know what they're doing. they don't spend $10k+ based on an image that has been manipulated to its best advantage.
https://ngccoin.com/certlookup/4842890-001/61/
Stop you silly insults!
It was possible to respond to my post in a mature and objective manner.
Welcome to the happiest forum on earth! A place where all wannabes and arm chair QB's are right-every time!
Let me get this right: NGC doesn't see it. PCGS won't see it. CAC doesn't see it. The camera doesn't see it.
Hmmm....I believe they call that an illusion.
I really don't see where anyone has insulted you.
@grivennik said: "I know the quality of the surfaces is essential in assigning a low-end or high-end MS grade; but the SB photos show how smooth they are, and the cataloguer also made this point, so I didn't touch on it. I always compare my coins with online photos of others of the same type; but saw higher graded coins with poorly-struck, blurred or weak details on either or both sides. Mine has neither. Any other MS61 I saw did not hold a candle to it.
You seem to be hung up with the quality of a coin's strike. Let me remind you that "strike" is ONLY one characteristic used to judge a coin's MS grade. Unfortunately, today it is not considered as important as it once was. So what? Your coin has a better than average strike. Most here seem to agree.
Therefore, there is either something else on the coin that resulted in the grade or the graders and many of us here who accept the grade are wrong! We'll see.
I'm wondering what the code words "smooth surfaces" indicates.
I think you might be thinking "smoothed" surfaces, but stop you silly insults!!
NOPE! If the auction house used the word "SMOOTHED," no cute "auction speak" would apply. That's why I'm curious. I've been known to describe a mangy dog (not the OP's) with enough flowery BS to make it sound like the "Queen's Hound."
How time flies!
Queen Elizabeth II walking her dogs at Windsor Castle
WINDSOR, UNITED KINGDOM - APRIL 2: Queen Elizabeth II walking her dogs at Windsor Castle, on April 2, 1994 in Windsor, United Kingdom . (Photo by Julian Parker/UK Press via Getty Images)
ENUF !!
DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS
and to the OP, welcome and well-played, sir
please, stop you silly insults!!
Heh. I just noticed that 61 price guide is $11,000 and 62 price guide is $11,500
But what's the price for a 67 in a 61 holder?
Apparently, $8,100
IDK. I think the price was fair. I wouldn't be surprised if almost no bidding came from this site at all. I could be wrong, but this is a small slice of the actual coin market. Unless the winning bidder or underbidder are on this board, and weren't put off by the critique of the coin. I don't know that there was any price impact.
It only would have perhaps “helped” if someone from this forum or another bought it. Online coin forums represent such a minicule amount of coin buyers. The coin netted a price well below book value.
Edited to say I didn’t see @jmlanzaf’s response before I posted. I obviously agreed with him
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don't know. The PCGS forum seems to rank pretty high in google searches.
It ranks high in google searches because of the sheer volume of words on these boards. It is still but a tiny fraction of the coin buyers out there. Or have you not noticed that about 50 people are responsible for 90% of the words on these boards.
Hence more visibility for this thread! I would love it if this was one of those forums that showed how many guests were looking. I bet the number of guests would be many multiples of registered users!
I agree with you. Especially for NGC unstickered coins. I expected this to sell at around $8000. It did. I think that reflects todays market for what this is. Perhaps the OP did want to market this coin here to pump up the value. It didn’t work. That’s my point. It was always going to sell for less then book. The market spoke
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
You can see how many people are online. Main page, lower right side. 152 as of a few minutes ago.
Lets not agreed or this will turn into a spam fest and get removed.
It's a great thread and a great chance for many to learn too including the OP.
I almost can't wait for the actual sale and first hand feedback from the likes of whom we kn> @grivennik said:
It sold for average current 58 money. You (the OP) should have paid attention to the experts here, and there are many, but you chose to rant about how greater it really is, must be, ignoring logic and expertise feedback from others here.
Had this specimen graded 62, 63 or whatever you "wished" it to be, this one would have sold for many thousands more.
There are many Analytical posts in this thread from Numismatic Experts that are Very Educational and helpful for those of us who are interested in continuing to hone and sharpen our Coin Observation and Evaluation skills.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Yeah kinda backfired...
We should do a "Go Fund Me" for the OP so he can at least get a fresh non spoiled can of SPAM.
POTD
If you gave me a show directory I could tell you which 50 dealers on-site looked at it and wouldn't pay $8,100. I wouldn't have normally noted this coin, but malicious curiosity made me ask a friendly toning specialist at the show for a 10-sec eyeball. He reported it had a sheen that looked like sulfur-induced toning would just slide off of it. Not the sweetest thing you can say about an old planchet.
A perfect storm of below the norm
Well, there you have it
Did @specialist view the coin?
I’m sure she did but I didn’t mention it to her specifically- wasn’t on my radar anymore
Jose said he didn't like it and didn't want to ruin her lunch. That's enough for most of us
@grivennik - where for art thou?
End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All of Us
ANA LM, LSCC, EAC, FUN
and now we have an answer to the OP's question, "Why pay a second fee?"
The exuberant discussion on this thread reminds me of this👇scene from the movie Dr. Strangelove:
“Gentlemen. You can’t Fight in here. This is the War Room!! 🤣👍
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UAeqVGP-GPM
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Agree. No astute dealer would pay retail for that coin. ($7 to $8k) In the land of auction land mines this coin is liable to take someone’s foot or wallet
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......