We have the largest Gem and mineral show here in Tucson. It lasts two weeks and is actually 30 different shows around town. There is no equivalence to any coin show anywhere.
The difference between fossils, minerals and gems, compared to coins, is the margins are much higher for those items. You have producers who go out and dig up the stuff and it may take up to a year to turn a find around. For the dealers who retail them, it also is many times a very slow process. They love quick-turn deals, and will discount for that, but it usually is a long term hold. Higher margins mean promoters can ask more for table space and they can promote their shows better.
Coins tend to be very easy to move at the right number. The margins are much tighter because of this added liquidity. Many dealers even don't need to go to a show to sell. Table fees are lower and the promoters can't afford to promote the show broadly.
Most mineral buyers want to see the rock in-hand and will attend a show. Coin buyers can rely on the image and the ease of shipping to make their deals. They may not even require attendance at a show.
Also, some may think of ComicCon as a show that is far, far away more attended than even the best coin show. With Billion dollar movies out there to generate interest, who could compete?
My question is "Does show attendance translate to more business being done?"
@TurboSnail said:
Here are some of my inputs with my decades of experience in retailing business and shows within other industries.
If I am a coin dealer in a show I would:
Sell only uncirculated coins in 2x2 cardboard holders. it will be a form of quality assurance to both new comers and seasoned collectors while providing some sort of entertainment of cherry picking.
Set up different sections/ trays in form of $2, $5,$10, $20 ,$50 and a special section for the high ends. All the holders will be color coded. The truth is that everyone has a budget and feel more comfortable knowing the price tags ahead of time.
Have a large collection of coins designs in display. Somewhere between 90% wold coins and 10% U.S with different designs in each of the tray slots. Different years and population rarity will not be the priority. it will always be the design and appearance of the product that grabs customers' first attention.
Now imagine your young children tag along to a coin show. Will you feel comfortable giving them $20 to shop for any coin at my $2-$5 table sections? How about your best friend who has a sudden interest in coin collecting? At which table would he spend most of his time through out the show? And yourself, will you be curious and drop by since there are so much foot traffic at my table?
Great idea. The FUN Show Budget section is close to that. Does the ANA have a Budget Section?
@RogerB said:
Hoping that some people connected with coin "shows" will take note and put more "show" in the "coin show." For the present, they look just like a flea market held on an abandoned dirt race track.
At the most recent Michigan State Numismatic Society spring show the exhibit area was along one "wall" of the hall with lighting so bad it was difficult to actually see much less enjoy the exhibits. This is a huge change from the days when shows were held at the Hyatt Regency and had very well lit exhibits. (The Hyatt Regency itself is no longer the Hyatt Regency and has undergone several name/ownership changes. I'm not even sure if it is still open.) The show itself now looks like a very large Sunday bourse. The raffle with great, mostly gold coin prizes is long gone as well.
@RogerB said:
Hoping that some people connected with coin "shows" will take note and put more "show" in the "coin show." For the present, they look just like a flea market held on an abandoned dirt race track.
The ANA, FUN, and Long Beach conventions seem to have a "show" with their exhibitions of rare collections. It's just the smaller local shows that look like flea markets.
@EagleEye said:
My question is "Does show attendance translate to more business being done?"
The short answer would be a "NO" for wholesalers in the short run. And big fat "YES" for the retailers.
Back when I was doing variety shows as a wholesaler in places like Javits center NYC. , the relationship between most of my customers and I were established long before the shows. They would placed a routine order every couple weeks anyway. Any order under $5,000 that day would consider a new customer or small fry which only contributed around 5% of total sale that day. The shows were just an excuse for us to chit chat and display some new merchandise that they might be interest in the future.
As a retailer in the shows, it could be a total beast depending on the attendance. I could had a team of a part-timer and one senior staff on a slow day to a team of 8 senior staffs to do 10,000+ sales transactions per day in the shows. Any of my teams consisted of two senior staffs was capable of generating 700-1000 sales per day in any of my three 1000 square feet store front locations near Time square in any giving day.
And recently we had the Great American Coin Hunt which was a great success
The key is the smaller one day show that have more dealers set up and not large shows that run a week and empty out after 2 days. Small shows allow local collectors to attend with out big expense
Regarding ComicCon... Announce a one day admission charge of $50 (or more) for a coin show, and half the collectors in the country will be hollering at the top of their lungs "I'm not paying to look at coins!" The other half? They dropped dead from the shock of the announcement.
@RogerB said:
Hoping that some people connected with coin "shows" will take note and put more "show" in the "coin show." For the present, they look just like a flea market held on an abandoned dirt race track.
The ANA, FUN, and Long Beach conventions seem to have a "show" with their exhibitions of rare collections. It's just the smaller local shows that look like flea markets.
When I walk into the ANA August show, it still looks like a flat, flea market in a parking garage -- no dirt floor but lots of concrete and bad lighting.
@coinpro76 said:
Free give aways always draw a crowd, like "first 500 people get a limited edition granite pebble" Coinvention organizers should look at incentivizing ticket buyers or newbies with a neat give away promo, great for families and kids.
Wasn't this tried once with gold proof Kennedy's. Or something like that?
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
@TurboSnail said:
Easy, when there is no more collector who would disrespect anyone's collection as "modern junk". I spent less than $20 for the collection below. And kiddies had lot of fun! No one in the gem show would called them pebbles would they?
Give them a choice between gold and silver when glitter comes in 11 colors and rocks in 117?
Recently read in my regular paper (failing NYT, ROFLMAO both forward and trailing) and dead seriously:
Is it racist politically incorrect to call Asian women adorable?
Seriously....
People attend shows because the show is offering the product and/or entertainment they want. You can’t convince 100,000 ComiCon attendees to attend a coin show instead by having a snappy catchphrase or a fancier venue. You need to be offering the product they want. Evidently, lots of people want rocks and minerals.
I’ve only just dabbled in the fossil and mineral world, but there is a top notch rock shop in town, and my experience there has been quite nice. I see people from all walks of life, and of all ages there: I see people who love the science and beauty of minerals, kids eager for a megalodon tooth, people who buy crystals for mystic properties (hey, why not), and people there buying jewelry. Very, very broad appeal.
The local shop also regularly conducts field trips to a mine in San Diego county where you can look for gems, and they’re well attended.
I would call the show I attended a regional size show.
I couldn't help but try to compare it to a similar sized coin show.
One thing I found unique was that there was a university science professor and a geologist roaming about. They were very popular. Vendors welcomed their presence at their tables when customers wanted in depth info on things that were a little deeper than the vendor knew.
One of the dealers learned that my brother is a 5th grade science teacher. Next thing you know, the dealer put together a cardboard box full of random rock and mineral examples for him to use in class.
The dealer then summoned over the professor who spent an embarrassing amount of time with my brother. He went through the box in detail, explaining how best to present each specimen to his class.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
How about combining rocks with coins? A geo-coin or roc-coin or RocCo or Croink show... whatever. Someone else can come up with a nifty unique combined name.
How about combining rocks with coins? A geo-coin or roc-coin or RocCo or Croink show... whatever. Someone else can come up with a nifty unique combined name.
I picked up some geocoins (for geocaching) a while back, but haven't checked in a while. Some were very pricy at the time, as in over 4 figures.
Best show I was ever involved with turnout-wise, we did a ton of publicity, most of it free. I was interviewed on local TV, each year which I like to believe helped. Brought odd denominations, super expensive examples, a number of numismatic items. Did pay for some newspaper space, but got a few free articles out of it. We had many families attend. None of it probably helped the high-end dealers, but the local guys always had a crowd. Attendance was free. This was a different time, but I believe people are on the lookout for something new to do with their kids and free is a bonus. Does a crowd of non-collector families generate a lot of sales? Perhaps not, but one can't catch the collecting bug unless one is exposed.
Comments
...paste foot prints on the floor in front of your tables? Add mannequins....?
We have the largest Gem and mineral show here in Tucson. It lasts two weeks and is actually 30 different shows around town. There is no equivalence to any coin show anywhere.
The difference between fossils, minerals and gems, compared to coins, is the margins are much higher for those items. You have producers who go out and dig up the stuff and it may take up to a year to turn a find around. For the dealers who retail them, it also is many times a very slow process. They love quick-turn deals, and will discount for that, but it usually is a long term hold. Higher margins mean promoters can ask more for table space and they can promote their shows better.
Coins tend to be very easy to move at the right number. The margins are much tighter because of this added liquidity. Many dealers even don't need to go to a show to sell. Table fees are lower and the promoters can't afford to promote the show broadly.
Most mineral buyers want to see the rock in-hand and will attend a show. Coin buyers can rely on the image and the ease of shipping to make their deals. They may not even require attendance at a show.
Also, some may think of ComicCon as a show that is far, far away more attended than even the best coin show. With Billion dollar movies out there to generate interest, who could compete?
My question is "Does show attendance translate to more business being done?"
Great idea. The FUN Show Budget section is close to that. Does the ANA have a Budget Section?
At the most recent Michigan State Numismatic Society spring show the exhibit area was along one "wall" of the hall with lighting so bad it was difficult to actually see much less enjoy the exhibits. This is a huge change from the days when shows were held at the Hyatt Regency and had very well lit exhibits. (The Hyatt Regency itself is no longer the Hyatt Regency and has undergone several name/ownership changes. I'm not even sure if it is still open.) The show itself now looks like a very large Sunday bourse. The raffle with great, mostly gold coin prizes is long gone as well.
The ANA, FUN, and Long Beach conventions seem to have a "show" with their exhibitions of rare collections. It's just the smaller local shows that look like flea markets.
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The problem is rocks are free. How ya gonna compete with that?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The short answer would be a "NO" for wholesalers in the short run. And big fat "YES" for the retailers.
Back when I was doing variety shows as a wholesaler in places like Javits center NYC. , the relationship between most of my customers and I were established long before the shows. They would placed a routine order every couple weeks anyway. Any order under $5,000 that day would consider a new customer or small fry which only contributed around 5% of total sale that day. The shows were just an excuse for us to chit chat and display some new merchandise that they might be interest in the future.
As a retailer in the shows, it could be a total beast depending on the attendance. I could had a team of a part-timer and one senior staff on a slow day to a team of 8 senior staffs to do 10,000+ sales transactions per day in the shows. Any of my teams consisted of two senior staffs was capable of generating 700-1000 sales per day in any of my three 1000 square feet store front locations near Time square in any giving day.
We have some great catch phrases
What’s in your pocket
Change is good
And recently we had the Great American Coin Hunt which was a great success
The key is the smaller one day show that have more dealers set up and not large shows that run a week and empty out after 2 days. Small shows allow local collectors to attend with out big expense
Regarding ComicCon... Announce a one day admission charge of $50 (or more) for a coin show, and half the collectors in the country will be hollering at the top of their lungs "I'm not paying to look at coins!" The other half? They dropped dead from the shock of the announcement.
When I walk into the ANA August show, it still looks like a flat, flea market in a parking garage -- no dirt floor but lots of concrete and bad lighting.
To be fair to the ANA, there 'd be a cost to doing something about the concrete and bad lighting. Where might the money come from?
Wasn't this tried once with gold proof Kennedy's. Or something like that?
Give them a choice between gold and silver when glitter comes in 11 colors and rocks in 117?
Recently read in my regular paper (failing NYT, ROFLMAO both forward and trailing) and dead seriously:
Is it racist politically incorrect to call Asian women adorable?
Seriously....
I'll take the Daily Double, Alex
I wonder what @stealer would say about this
People attend shows because the show is offering the product and/or entertainment they want. You can’t convince 100,000 ComiCon attendees to attend a coin show instead by having a snappy catchphrase or a fancier venue. You need to be offering the product they want. Evidently, lots of people want rocks and minerals.
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
Increased attendance nearly always results in increased business and greater information distribution.
Do book signings by prominent authors help?
I’ve only just dabbled in the fossil and mineral world, but there is a top notch rock shop in town, and my experience there has been quite nice. I see people from all walks of life, and of all ages there: I see people who love the science and beauty of minerals, kids eager for a megalodon tooth, people who buy crystals for mystic properties (hey, why not), and people there buying jewelry. Very, very broad appeal.
The local shop also regularly conducts field trips to a mine in San Diego county where you can look for gems, and they’re well attended.
Anyway, here’s my latest rock again:
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
I would call the show I attended a regional size show.
I couldn't help but try to compare it to a similar sized coin show.
One thing I found unique was that there was a university science professor and a geologist roaming about. They were very popular. Vendors welcomed their presence at their tables when customers wanted in depth info on things that were a little deeper than the vendor knew.
One of the dealers learned that my brother is a 5th grade science teacher. Next thing you know, the dealer put together a cardboard box full of random rock and mineral examples for him to use in class.
The dealer then summoned over the professor who spent an embarrassing amount of time with my brother. He went through the box in detail, explaining how best to present each specimen to his class.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Someone probably brought this up.
How about combining rocks with coins? A geo-coin or roc-coin or RocCo or Croink show... whatever. Someone else can come up with a nifty unique combined name.
I can see it now: A Rock and Metal show.
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
I picked up some geocoins (for geocaching) a while back, but haven't checked in a while. Some were very pricy at the time, as in over 4 figures.
Do a coinshow at disneyland. Its bound to have a good turnout! Lol
I really like what I’m hearing about rocks and minerals. I think I’m going to switch to collecting those instead. Is there a Registry Set?
LIBERTY SEATED DIMES WITH MAJOR VARIETIES CIRCULATION STRIKES (1837-1891) digital album
A Dizneyland coin show. I can imaging little mouse ears stuck on every proof gold coin; and little piles of rodent poop mixed with the junk box stuff.
Best show I was ever involved with turnout-wise, we did a ton of publicity, most of it free. I was interviewed on local TV, each year which I like to believe helped. Brought odd denominations, super expensive examples, a number of numismatic items. Did pay for some newspaper space, but got a few free articles out of it. We had many families attend. None of it probably helped the high-end dealers, but the local guys always had a crowd. Attendance was free. This was a different time, but I believe people are on the lookout for something new to do with their kids and free is a bonus. Does a crowd of non-collector families generate a lot of sales? Perhaps not, but one can't catch the collecting bug unless one is exposed.
RE: "None of it probably helped the high-end dealers, but the local guys always had a crowd."
High-end dealers don't introduce people to the hobby or support the primary base of collectors. They are more like tall weeds in a field of clover.