I do think transaction costs and potential holding times to break even can be unclear in the coin hobby. Perhaps this is an area the ANA can have a class on.
This still views the coin as a commodity. If you buy a comic book today for $1000. Would you expect to be able to sell it to tomorrow for $950? $1050?
Why would there EVER be a break even point? I always tell people to expect the coin price to drop for the rest of their life, then buy it if they still want it. There should be NO expectation for price appreciation because that immediately starts viewing the coins as an "investment" rather than a "hobby". [Straight bullion is an exception, of course.]
The breakeven can certainly be never, and is for declining coins. That being said, some coins do go up and it’s useful for people to understand that. Of course, if more people go for the coins that are going up, they may go up even faster.
Given the market bifurcation, would it be more complete to say:
And ego has limits. When you can't "win" do you try harder or also head for the exits.
this makes me think of my time with the Registry Sets I retired.
when I first came to the Forum I was flabbergasted by the membership, collectors who had knowledge and collections that dwarfed mine. as I interacted and became friends with some like-minded collectors I decided that the Set Registry was a good way to share my collection(s) with the other guys doing the same thing. it was fun at first until I had to make selections to move forward, I had topped out at #5. the choice was simple: buy a bunch of widgets for the points or actually buy a meaningful, solid coin and to fill a hole. I lingered for a few years, sold the widgets, kept the gems, retired every set and now I just collect.
what I had envisioned as fun interaction turned into ego driven competition.
@keets said: And ego has limits. When you can't "win" do you try harder or also head for the exits.
this makes me think of my time with the Registry Sets I retired.
when I first came to the Forum I was flabbergasted by the membership, collectors who had knowledge and collections that dwarfed mine. as I interacted and became friends with some like-minded collectors I decided that the Set Registry was a good way to share my collection(s) with the other guys doing the same thing. it was fun at first until I had to make selections to move forward, I had topped out at #5. the choice was simple: buy a bunch of widgets for the points or actually buy a meaningful, solid coin and to fill a hole. I lingered for a few years, sold the widgets, kept the gems, retired every set and now I just collect.
what I had envisioned as fun interaction turned into ego driven competition.
Agreed.
It's amazing what ego has done for condition census garbage and modern 70 crap. Of course, the collapse of those markets could be good for other sectors if the money moves that direction. But if the money simply exits the market...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
@keets said: And ego has limits. When you can't "win" do you try harder or also head for the exits.
this makes me think of my time with the Registry Sets I retired.
when I first came to the Forum I was flabbergasted by the membership, collectors who had knowledge and collections that dwarfed mine. as I interacted and became friends with some like-minded collectors I decided that the Set Registry was a good way to share my collection(s) with the other guys doing the same thing. it was fun at first until I had to make selections to move forward, I had topped out at #5. the choice was simple: buy a bunch of widgets for the points or actually buy a meaningful, solid coin and to fill a hole. I lingered for a few years, sold the widgets, kept the gems, retired every set and now I just collect.
what I had envisioned as fun interaction turned into ego driven competition.
#5 isn’t bad. Why weren’t you satisfied with it? Did you want to go up higher? Did you feel less than 100% complete wasn’t desirable?
As nice as it is to hold a raw coin, I don't mind mine being in slabs, not at all. If I want to feel something old in hand, I'll grab and occasionally use a 250 year old tablespoon or grab a poured 100oz bar.
"@cardinal even examined the now $10 million 1794 Flowing Hair dollar in his bare hands. For those who haven't seen the pictures"
For those who have seen these pictures:
Remember that photos taken for publicity or other reasons are usually "staged." I'm sure @Cardnal would be the FIRST to remind all of us this is no way to examine a coin with a hand lens.
@Insider2 said:
"@cardinal even examined the now $10 million 1794 Flowing Hair dollar in his bare hands. For those who haven't seen the pictures"
For those who have seen these pictures:
Remember that photos taken for publicity or other reasons are usually "staged." I'm sure @Cardnal would be the FIRST to remind all of us this is no way to examine a coin with a hand lens.
Those pictures were not "staged." Those photos were taken at the 2004 ANA, in a secluded room with only those who were specifically invited. Due to the value of the coin, it was understood that PCGS would not crack it out willy nilly for anyone wanting to see it raw on any day, and so a few photos were taken to memorialize the event. Those who were invited were not neophytes in handing coins raw, and there was no commotion and distractions that could cause the person to drop the coin. You will also note that there was a black velvet pad directly beneath my hands - just in case.
If you want to see a "staged" photo -- here you go!
and a closeup
Notice that the Smithsonian's Dr. Richard Doty is holding the unique Judd-19 copper pattern, and shudder to see, he's holding it raw!
Gawd some of you all are sounding like my Dad reminiscing about the olden days. He still misses the sansabelt
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
Gawd some of you all are sounding like my Dad reminiscing about the olden days. He still misses the Sansa belt
m
It's not that old. Those pics holding the raw 1794 copper dollar and 1794 specimen dollar are both fairly recent.
Oh I wasn’t referencing that particular post. That’s actually pretty cool
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I think some things reach a point when they have seen their day. One has to be honest with themselves to realize this. I think the passion for coins is an individual thing. For many of us it continues.
I enjoy buying and selling coins plus attending shows.
The current market is not in a crash like 89 but has been stagnant for sometime. No gimmick, marketing hype or guru will save it. New buyer influx is needed. I have developed a renewed interest in classic commems so pickup a nice one here and there.
I just try to enjoy the coins and paper money I have at worst it’s a sch c deduction. Sales have been good but the summer doldrums are around the corner. A good buying time.
Concentrate on chasing the material you enjoy and love to study. Knowledge is king.
Comments
The breakeven can certainly be never, and is for declining coins. That being said, some coins do go up and it’s useful for people to understand that. Of course, if more people go for the coins that are going up, they may go up even faster.
Given the market bifurcation, would it be more complete to say:
And ego has limits. When you can't "win" do you try harder or also head for the exits.
this makes me think of my time with the Registry Sets I retired.
when I first came to the Forum I was flabbergasted by the membership, collectors who had knowledge and collections that dwarfed mine. as I interacted and became friends with some like-minded collectors I decided that the Set Registry was a good way to share my collection(s) with the other guys doing the same thing. it was fun at first until I had to make selections to move forward, I had topped out at #5. the choice was simple: buy a bunch of widgets for the points or actually buy a meaningful, solid coin and to fill a hole. I lingered for a few years, sold the widgets, kept the gems, retired every set and now I just collect.
what I had envisioned as fun interaction turned into ego driven competition.
Agreed.
It's amazing what ego has done for condition census garbage and modern 70 crap. Of course, the collapse of those markets could be good for other sectors if the money moves that direction. But if the money simply exits the market...
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, evn when irrefutably accurate.
#5 isn’t bad. Why weren’t you satisfied with it? Did you want to go up higher? Did you feel less than 100% complete wasn’t desirable?
As nice as it is to hold a raw coin, I don't mind mine being in slabs, not at all. If I want to feel something old in hand, I'll grab and occasionally use a 250 year old tablespoon or grab a poured 100oz bar.
My YouTube Channel
"@cardinal even examined the now $10 million 1794 Flowing Hair dollar in his bare hands. For those who haven't seen the pictures"
For those who have seen these pictures:
Remember that photos taken for publicity or other reasons are usually "staged." I'm sure @Cardnal would be the FIRST to remind all of us this is no way to examine a coin with a hand lens.
#5 isn’t bad. Why weren’t you satisfied with it? Did you want to go up higher? Did you feel less than 100% complete wasn’t desirable?
my intention when I joined wasn't to compete.
I wanna see the "ring test."
Those pictures were not "staged." Those photos were taken at the 2004 ANA, in a secluded room with only those who were specifically invited. Due to the value of the coin, it was understood that PCGS would not crack it out willy nilly for anyone wanting to see it raw on any day, and so a few photos were taken to memorialize the event. Those who were invited were not neophytes in handing coins raw, and there was no commotion and distractions that could cause the person to drop the coin. You will also note that there was a black velvet pad directly beneath my hands - just in case.
If you want to see a "staged" photo -- here you go!
and a closeup
Notice that the Smithsonian's Dr. Richard Doty is holding the unique Judd-19 copper pattern, and shudder to see, he's holding it raw!
Wow, awesome to see the 1794 copper dollar pattern held like it was designed to be held!
Gawd some of you all are sounding like my Dad reminiscing about the olden days. He still misses the sansabelt
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's not that old. Those pics holding the raw 1794 copper dollar and 1794 specimen dollar are both fairly recent.
Oh I wasn’t referencing that particular post. That’s actually pretty cool
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
These are 2 colonials in my collection. The one on the bottom is a raw while the top one is slabbed by PCGS. So I am still romancing raw coins
I think some things reach a point when they have seen their day. One has to be honest with themselves to realize this. I think the passion for coins is an individual thing. For many of us it continues.
I enjoy buying and selling coins plus attending shows.
The current market is not in a crash like 89 but has been stagnant for sometime. No gimmick, marketing hype or guru will save it. New buyer influx is needed. I have developed a renewed interest in classic commems so pickup a nice one here and there.
I just try to enjoy the coins and paper money I have at worst it’s a sch c deduction. Sales have been good but the summer doldrums are around the corner. A good buying time.
Concentrate on chasing the material you enjoy and love to study. Knowledge is king.