@SanctionII said:
I have been in shops where the shop owner quickly sizes up customers. For those customers who the dealer believes are knowledgeable about coins the dealer will not give the customer the time of day.
I think this happens because:
If the dealer buys coins he will want to buy them from persons who know little about coins (i.e. widow of a deceased collector, kids who inherited dad's collection, etc.) so he can buy them for a mere fraction of their true value; or
If the dealer sells coins, he will sell overgraded coins at inflated prices to persons who know little about coins.
When I am in a shop such as this, I leave as soon as I get the idea the the dealer would have no interest in doing business with a knowledgeable collector.
I agree, and there are the same in every business or profession. What these types do not realize, the knowledgeable customer is also sizing them up!
@ARCO said:
business owners do not turn away profitable business. For whatever reason this dealer did not see a profitable transaction. Who is harmed in this situation? Nobody.
+1 and perhaps the dealer wasn't interested in getting into an argument with a customer over pricing...time is money too...sounds like the customer is going to take a loss on their investment...its usually painful to deliver that news...
Buying and selling happen through a judgment on value and being able to make a profit. I know that shop owner well. I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of coins from him, paying strong. I kept my mouth shut on this transaction, though the potential seller will doubtless be checking around for other buyers, but there are no reasonable ones within an hour's drive. Sometimes opportunity comes and goes, and moves on when people do not recognize it. I'll ask Phil about why he turned it away.
@logger7 said:
Buying and selling happen through a judgment on value and being able to make a profit. I know that shop owner well. I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of coins from him, paying strong. I kept my mouth shut on this transaction, though the potential seller will doubtless be checking around for other buyers, but there are no reasonable ones within an hour's drive. Sometimes opportunity comes and goes, and moves on when people do not recognize it. I'll ask Phil about why he turned it away.
Logger7: i have had good advice in the past with a dealer friend-I am living abroad at the pesent-in both buying and selling recomendations. Iwould guess he was correct at least 80% of the time with his recomendations. One piece of advice I regret not heeding was around 2005 when Washingtons were really hot. Knowing I had some nice pieces-he had sold me several-his take was that market was overheated with much lower prices to come.
I would have asked the dealer if they cared if I talked to seller the second the seller hit the door. That way you get the opportunity without stepping on any toes. About 2 months ago I was in a shop, watch the dealer buy a handful of slabs. As soon as they seller left, I asked what he got so he showed me a bunch of holders. I saw 2 isle of Man angles, one 1oz and one 2oz silver in 2 pcgs PR70 slabs. I got them for $15 more than he paid, which was a 1/3 of ebay sold listing price. (he doesn't do ebay but knew what they sell for there). So it isn't always about big mark-ups, a lot can be about what moves.
@thefinn said:
Maybe it was his way of saying he didn't want to buy items he knew had been stolen.
Took the words out of my mouth. After booting out the bums year after year, my shop earned a reputation as the place not to try and fence your goods. As a result, after some years I didn't have to look at these people anymore.
I was at a dinner party once and the chief of police was also in attendance. We started talking and he asked me what I did and who I was. I told him, and the first thing he said was that his department had always known that the thieves didn't go to my shop. He told me that this reputation was "well known".
I was happy !
I would have asked the dealer if they cared if I talked to seller the second the seller hit the door. That way you get the opportunity without stepping on any toes. About 2 months ago I was in a shop, watch the dealer buy a handful of slabs. As soon as they seller left, I asked what he got so he showed me a bunch of holders. I saw 2 isle of Man angles, one 1oz and one 2oz silver in 2 pcgs PR70 slabs. I got them for $15 more than he paid, which was a 1/3 of ebay sold listing price. (he doesn't do ebay but knew what they sell for there). So it isn't always about big mark-ups, a lot can be about what moves.
I probably should have asked the dealer if I could get a shot at the coins, as when they leave the store they probably aren't coming back. I would tell Phil to work out a reasonable deal with the seller and I would then buy the whole group letting Phil make a quick profit. A little sticky with the wife around who does real estate; she might have gotten upset (happy wife happy life).
Perhaps the dealer short on funds or just not buying. My most likely guess.
One strategy Dealer would c if can quickly buy a couple then move on w deal. Find out if guy is for real (will sell). You could keep tally sheet. “Ok I can do these 4 real quick (thinking on y feet w 4 easy ones) for $x. Agreed?” Moving on to some more....excitement of deal building.
“Now these 5 trading around same / will fudge it up some.” Purchases these.
“Now u have these 7 here less see / hmm (doing some calc adding stuff on calculator) my best offer on these are W.” Seller accepts and happy get some more cash.
Dealer “thanks for coming in you made the right decision to go with MV Investnent Group.”
Onlooker standing in shop says “wow that went fast your a decisive guy, don’t fumble bumble around u must really know your biz - any good stuff, can I take a look?”
Dealer “would love to but gotta put in safe gotta, close up go pick up Sally would show u tomorrow though but these promised for special customer.” (Flip at upcoming show) Here will show u door then lockup.”
Once onlooker gone ( and shop locked, lights out dealer retreats to office, pours glass Jack Daniels (huge relief it went down, smooth execution) says to self “well guy let’s c what bid is on all this, any upgrades?”
@SanctionII said:
I have been in shops where the shop owner quickly sizes up customers. For those customers who the dealer believes are knowledgeable about coins the dealer will not give the customer the time of day.
I think this happens because:
If the dealer buys coins he will want to buy them from persons who know little about coins (i.e. widow of a deceased collector, kids who inherited dad's collection, etc.) so he can buy them for a mere fraction of their true value; or
If the dealer sells coins, he will sell overgraded coins at inflated prices to persons who know little about coins.
When I am in a shop such as this, I leave as soon as I get the idea the the dealer would have no interest in doing business with a knowledgeable collector.
I agree, and there are the same in every business or profession. What these types do not realize, the knowledgeable customer is also sizing them up!
Beware the "Mystery Shoppers". Some stores send out people to test their employees honesty. And how their customer service skills are.
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
@SanctionII said:
I have been in shops where the shop owner quickly sizes up customers. For those customers who the dealer believes are knowledgeable about coins the dealer will not give the customer the time of day.
I think this happens because:
If the dealer buys coins he will want to buy them from persons who know little about coins (i.e. widow of a deceased collector, kids who inherited dad's collection, etc.) so he can buy them for a mere fraction of their true value; or
If the dealer sells coins, he will sell overgraded coins at inflated prices to persons who know little about coins.
When I am in a shop such as this, I leave as soon as I get the idea the the dealer would have no interest in doing business with a knowledgeable collector.
Wow! You really hold coin dealers in low regard although I can sure understand where you are coming from..
You seem to be surprised and then understanding. Why can you understand this?
I've had coin dealers try to rip me off. I showed one coin dealer a Saint Gaudens gold coin that I was considering selling. He told me it was counterfeit (I knew it was quite real) and then made me a low ball offer on it. LOL. I had another coin dealer try to sell me a counterfeit gold dollar. When I pointed out that it was a fake he didn't have the common decency to at least pretend to be surprised. I can tell other stories but I'll spare you. That said, I know many honest trustworthy coin dealers that I've had the pleasure to be associated with including many that are active here and are willing to share their time and knowledge with us. I give all my business to those dealers.
the magic words .......what you looking get out of it..run out fast
without knowing your local dealer and the situation, I will add that your local shop owner almost handed a customer the knife to cut his throat.
shop owner: "market is down. come back later"
potential seller: "I want (or need) to sell"
shop owner: "I can give you x"
Shop owner knows his business better than anyone else. I have seen this situation a couple times at the local b & m's. it is usually silver dollars and junk silver. stuff that a dealer HAS to buy CHEAP because he will probably be sitting on it
Comments
I agree, and there are the same in every business or profession. What these types do not realize, the knowledgeable customer is also sizing them up!
+1 and perhaps the dealer wasn't interested in getting into an argument with a customer over pricing...time is money too...sounds like the customer is going to take a loss on their investment...its usually painful to deliver that news...
Are they really collectors ?
Buying and selling happen through a judgment on value and being able to make a profit. I know that shop owner well. I have bought many thousands of dollars worth of coins from him, paying strong. I kept my mouth shut on this transaction, though the potential seller will doubtless be checking around for other buyers, but there are no reasonable ones within an hour's drive. Sometimes opportunity comes and goes, and moves on when people do not recognize it. I'll ask Phil about why he turned it away.
Logger7: i have had good advice in the past with a dealer friend-I am living abroad at the pesent-in both buying and selling recomendations. Iwould guess he was correct at least 80% of the time with his recomendations. One piece of advice I regret not heeding was around 2005 when Washingtons were really hot. Knowing I had some nice pieces-he had sold me several-his take was that market was overheated with much lower prices to come.
I would have asked the dealer if they cared if I talked to seller the second the seller hit the door. That way you get the opportunity without stepping on any toes. About 2 months ago I was in a shop, watch the dealer buy a handful of slabs. As soon as they seller left, I asked what he got so he showed me a bunch of holders. I saw 2 isle of Man angles, one 1oz and one 2oz silver in 2 pcgs PR70 slabs. I got them for $15 more than he paid, which was a 1/3 of ebay sold listing price. (he doesn't do ebay but knew what they sell for there). So it isn't always about big mark-ups, a lot can be about what moves.
http://www.silverstocker.com
Anyone can PM me Any Time about Any thing.
Took the words out of my mouth. After booting out the bums year after year, my shop earned a reputation as the place not to try and fence your goods. As a result, after some years I didn't have to look at these people anymore.
I was at a dinner party once and the chief of police was also in attendance. We started talking and he asked me what I did and who I was. I told him, and the first thing he said was that his department had always known that the thieves didn't go to my shop. He told me that this reputation was "well known".
I was happy !
Si> @Edthelorax said:
I probably should have asked the dealer if I could get a shot at the coins, as when they leave the store they probably aren't coming back. I would tell Phil to work out a reasonable deal with the seller and I would then buy the whole group letting Phil make a quick profit. A little sticky with the wife around who does real estate; she might have gotten upset (happy wife happy life).
Perhaps the dealer short on funds or just not buying. My most likely guess.
One strategy Dealer would c if can quickly buy a couple then move on w deal. Find out if guy is for real (will sell). You could keep tally sheet. “Ok I can do these 4 real quick (thinking on y feet w 4 easy ones) for $x. Agreed?” Moving on to some more....excitement of deal building.
“Now these 5 trading around same / will fudge it up some.” Purchases these.
“Now u have these 7 here less see / hmm (doing some calc adding stuff on calculator) my best offer on these are W.” Seller accepts and happy get some more cash.
Dealer “thanks for coming in you made the right decision to go with MV Investnent Group.”
Onlooker standing in shop says “wow that went fast your a decisive guy, don’t fumble bumble around u must really know your biz - any good stuff, can I take a look?”
Dealer “would love to but gotta put in safe gotta, close up go pick up Sally would show u tomorrow though but these promised for special customer.” (Flip at upcoming show) Here will show u door then lockup.”
Once onlooker gone ( and shop locked, lights out dealer retreats to office, pours glass Jack Daniels (huge relief it went down, smooth execution) says to self “well guy let’s c what bid is on all this, any upgrades?”
Beware the "Mystery Shoppers". Some stores send out people to test their employees honesty. And how their customer service skills are.
the magic words .......what you looking get out of it..run out fast
without knowing your local dealer and the situation, I will add that your local shop owner almost handed a customer the knife to cut his throat.
shop owner: "market is down. come back later"
potential seller: "I want (or need) to sell"
shop owner: "I can give you x"
Shop owner knows his business better than anyone else. I have seen this situation a couple times at the local b & m's. it is usually silver dollars and junk silver. stuff that a dealer HAS to buy CHEAP because he will probably be sitting on it
It was probably material dealer did not want to buy (over stocked) or lack of buying funds.
I agree; it is tax season, some people have filed and just don't have thousands in buying power.