Double Eagle Gold Coin - $7.5 Million?

nyyankyfan · November 21, 2002 3:00PM

The other day I thought I heard on the radio news that during the 30's when Roosevelt banned gold the mint destroyed Gold coins. Something about a US Mint worker stole one instead of destroying it and it was on display in NYC and is valued at $7.5 Million. Was it an error coin? Why so much? There must be more than one?

gmarguli · November 21, 2002 3:21PM

It's a 1933 St. Gaudens double eagle. It's the only one that supposedly was released legally (somewhat retroactively) - not stolen. It is the only one legal to be owned so far. There are others out there. The Smithsonian has 2. Others are in private hands, but whose hands these are is not made public.

nyyankyfan · November 23, 2002 6:08AM

World’s rarest coin, 1933 Double Eagle, fetches $7.59 million at auction

Another Article on the 1933 Double Eagle

nyyankyfan · November 23, 2002 6:15AM

Why do they call it the "Double" Eagle?

fcloud · November 23, 2002 6:18AM

The term Eagle is used to describe a $10 gold piece. So a twenty is Double, and a five is a Half Eagle.

merz2 · November 23, 2002 6:19AM

nyyankyfan
Where have you been? I can't believe you are just now getting this info.This story has been going on for 2 years.

wallstreetman · November 23, 2002 6:21AM

<< <i>It's a 1933 St. Gaudens double eagle. It's the only one that supposedly was released legally (somewhat retroactively) - not stolen. It is the only one legal to be owned so far. There are others out there. The Smithsonian has 2. Others are in private hands, but whose hands these are is not made public. >>

WRONG! No time, explain later!

nyyankyfan · November 23, 2002 6:23AM

merz2,

I am Rip Van Winkle. I have been sleeping for 20 years. Actually my calling is PSA graded sportscards but lately I have resumed my former coin collecting. Is that alright with you?

lordmarcovan · November 23, 2002 6:26AM

Welcome back to numismatics, nyyankyfan.

We're glad you are beginning to see the error of your ways, and moving from cardboard to metal.

Russ · November 23, 2002 6:28AM

<< <i>WRONG! No time, explain later! >>

WSM You Doophus,

There is nothing incorrect in Greg's statement. It lacks some detail, but is essentially true.

<< <i>Is that alright with you? >>

nyyankyfan,

It would be okay if you weren't a Yankees fan. Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!! Hey! Just kidding! At least they don't suck as bad as the Mariners.

Russ, NCNE

wallstreetman · November 23, 2002 5:55PM

Unless I missed some update, the coin has never been proven to have been released legally, that window of opportunity is a bunch of B.S. Your correct when you say its the only one that has been legally placed into circulation, but saying "so far" makes it sound like they may do the same to others(imaginary coins) that show up, there is a contract signed by the Govt saying they wont legalize any more! The coin never would have sold for that much without that contract! As far as these other(imaginary coins) being in the hands of others, wheres the proof? If anyone thought they had one that was legal, they wouldnt be in hiding, people only hide illegal items!

In the case of any 64 Peace Dollars, if there is one, I would expect it to show up fairly soon. Any owner, after seeing how this coin was handled, will want to cut a deal quick! It seems the early bird gets the worm! Im not up on the Peace Dollar fairytale, its just that some made comparisons, so dont flame me!

It seems the coin went for a lot of money, but not when you compare it to what the guy was willing to pay, $12,000,000. The part that blows my mind is the amount of the auction fees of almost a million dollars, there should be a limit, Im in the wrong business!

wallstreetman · November 23, 2002 6:01PM

nyyankyfan, In case you dont know, the coin was not made legal until after the auction close! The coin sold for $6,600,000, the rest was auction fees plus the $20 to place it into circulation!

wallstreetman · November 23, 2002 6:07PM

By the way, Greg is correct in saying there are two in the Smithsonian.

wallstreetman · November 23, 2002 6:20PM

Greg, Im sorry if it sounded like a flame, I was in a hurry when I saw the thread, I shouldnt have said anything until I got back! Fire away!

merz2 · November 23, 2002 8:59PM

nyyankyfan
I wasn't trying to sound flip.It was even on GoodMorning America.Turn on your allow for Private Messages,in your Profile.

roadrunner · November 23, 2002 11:49PM

WSM, I don't recall seeing anything published about a contract between the govt and the buyer. Let me know where the copy of that contract was published so I can read it too. Seems very plausible to me that more 33's are out there. Owners like to show off their toys. There are also 74 aluminum cents and very possibly 64 peace dollars out there too. Whether they are ever brought to full public light again remains to be seen.

If other documents ever come to light that show other windows of opportunity for '33 Double Eagles to have been legally released or exchanged for gold, then any potential contract already signed would have some severe legal problems

roadrunner

tradedollarnut · November 24, 2002 12:51AM

Well...at a minimum, the Farouk 1933 is still out there!

BTW - the new owner of the 1933 got ripped off for $20. That 1933 was not "stolen" from the mint, it was bought for either gold or cash (otherwise the books would never have balanced). So the govt got its $20 in 1933 and got it again in 2002 - what a farce!

wallstreetman · November 24, 2002 1:14AM

Roadrunner, I only heard of a contract in Long Beach, cant say I saw it published! Its well known though that the Govt stated no others will be legalized, thats enough of an oral contract anyway and it makes me tend to believe the talk of a written one! You say that owners like to show off their toys, I totally agree, that is why I dont believe there are any legal ones out there!

wallstreetman · November 24, 2002 1:19AM

TDN, This guy got the deal of the century IMHO, a pop 1 coin with no chance of it ever going higher, thats one of a kind! As far as the Govts take, half of $6,600,000 is a lot more than $20, and we think the premiums on the moderns are too high!

tradedollarnut · November 24, 2002 2:18AM

a pop 1 coin with no chance of it ever going higher, thats one of a kind!

Never say never! The Smithsonian could easily decide to sell one in order to raise funds for a needed better display. The real Farouk specimen could show up. Somebody could decide to take on the Gov't over the legal window to acquire the 1933 coins. That pop1 coin could easily become a pop 20 in no time.

wallstreetman · November 24, 2002 2:23AM

Are the Smithsonian coins legal for circulation?

EVillageProwler · November 24, 2002 2:30AM

WSM,

If the Smithsonian decided to sell one of the '33 Double Eagles, then it would legal to own. The coin need not be legal as a means of currency exchange for collectors to want it. After all, the Trade Dollar is also not legal (anymore) as a means of currency exchange in this country.

EVP

wondercoin · November 24, 2002 2:36AM

"That pop1 coin could easily become a pop 20 in no time."

Here is concrete proof that the fellow buying state quarter bags this year at $1100 - $1200/bag can outperform the fellow buying classic rarities

merz2 · November 24, 2002 2:36AM

EVP makes a good point.The Smithsonisn is always looking for funds to improve.If I were the director of the national museum,I'd sell one of the two examples.I'm sure the millions raised from such a sale would go a long way.

Outhaul · November 24, 2002 3:38AM

The specimens in the Smith would only be legal to own privately if the Gov't monetized them. So far, they only did the Farouk specimen by contract (October issue of CoinAge I think has the story). The buyer would have been foolish to pay what he paid without having that stipulation. BTW...did you see the hits on the obverse of this coin? Looks like Liberty fell down a flight of stairs!

Cheers,

Bob

EVillageProwler · November 24, 2002 4:01AM

The specimens in the Smith would only be legal to own privately if the Gov't monetized them.

I don't think this is accurate. The Smith can legally sell them, but the coins still would not be monetized. The coins simply would have no value as currency. But, they'd still be legal to own.

I don't mean to split hairs here, but I think the distinction is an important one.

EVP

jom · November 24, 2002 4:03AM

<< <i>Unless I missed some update, the coin has never been proven to have been released legally, that window of opportunity is a bunch of B.S. >>

Really? I ask anyone here to prove this either way. What is the latest info on this. I've always assumed the $20s were available the early part of 1933. If not, then where is THAT info if it supposedly "BS"? I'm not sure what the answer is...I'm just asking.

jom

merysu · November 24, 2002 4:49AM

Interesting assertion by WSM....... A recent article by noted researcher R.W. Julian makes a very plausible case why it is likely that an owner of a 33 Double Eagle could win a court case. In a recent issue of the ANS Magazine, Julian wrote that in his own research of Philadelphia Mint archives, and other archives in Washington, D.C., in March 1996, he had determined a window of time in 1933 when St. Gauden's double eagles of that year could have legally left the Mint! -mark-

tradedollarnut · November 24, 2002 4:59AM

Wondercoin: The 1933 $20 is NOT a classic rarity - it has been illegal to own for so long that it's in the same balleywick as the 1964 Peace dollar and 1974 aluminum cent. However: now that one is legal [with very tenuous (at best!) links to Farouk] it won't be long until a second specimen shows up with even stronger ties to the deposed monarch. Then, once that one is legal, the King's widow will come on the market with the true specimen! And then, someone will successfully challenge the government's position that the coins left the mint illegally and there will be 20-30 specimens on the market.

In my opinion the 1933 is about the same as the 27-D Saint: 10-12 known and always the possibility of more showing up. It's just got a few extra legal issues is all!

coinguy1 · November 24, 2002 5:06AM

It is well known that other 1933 $20's are out there, in hiding. And, it is entirely possible that they will some day, be legalized. I have already heard that another "test case" is potentially in the works.

The legal-to-own population is just one at this time but the coin is certainly not unique and it could be that the buyer at $7 million plus, got a bad deal and not a good one. Only time will tell.

Legend · November 24, 2002 8:24AM

FYI for those who care. Rumor among the people in the know says that 1933 $20 came from the Dallas Bank Collection (of Saints) sold last year at this time. Thats why it was sold by Stacks/Sotheby's. Also, it is widely believed that there IS one other one in a private collectors hands (old time dealers claim to have seen it).

It will be very intereting what will happen when that coin ever surfaces (the owner is over 70).

Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com

richbeat · November 25, 2002 7:57PM

The government saying that 1933 Saints are illegal to own IS a bunch of BS. There was a legal window of opportunity to obtain 1933 Saints between March 15, 1933 when they were first struck, and April 5, 1933 when the Executive Order was issued. Any number of Saints could have left the mint legally in that time period. In the past, several '33s have been confiscated and melted. I'm sure there are more out there. What made the government decide that this one auctioned coin would be legal is the export license that they granted back in the 1940's. Because of that window of opportunity, all '33 Saints should be legal to own. To say that they are not, but 1913 Liberty nickels are, is totally ludicrous.

cladking · November 25, 2002 8:07PM

The mint frequently has inadvertantly released coins ahead of
schedule, mixed in with coins of a previous year. The mint should
have to prove this coin was stolen from the mint.

wallstreetman · November 25, 2002 9:15PM

An individual is going to need a lot of luck and money to tell the Govt what is legal and what isnt. The owner of the 33 has no downside to his purchase, if anything was proven and more coins made legal, this guy could sue them from here to Kingdom come! If the Secret Service hadnt got wind of the Farouk sale, this coin would still be in hiding, your not going to see anymore 33s because it would cost more than its worth to fight the Govt at this point!

Double Eagle Gold Coin - $7.5 Million?

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