I've been looking for a 7A for a while. I used to have a GSA example a long time ago and I miss it. though I would prefer one a lil' more @Ricko approved!
If FTB paid shipping costs and returned promptly, both of which he seemed to do, then that is quite reasonable. As the seller I would only be annoyed that getting someone to pay such an apparently unwarranted premium a second time is probably not likely.
It only grinds my gears when buyers are weasels and force me as a seller to pay shipping based on bogus claims.
I don't see a problem with returns. If an item you paid for (doesn't have to be coins) isn't what you're led to believe it is through advertising then it should be returnable. Giving the benefit of the doubt the nuke bid was made on something that looked nicer than it was.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Wow, 54 responses so far. Buyer won item on eBay with returns allowed. He opted to return the coin. What’s the big deal? Who cares why he returned the coin? Yes eBay is an approval service sometimes.
@amwldcoin said:
I have to agree with others! The coin is much nicer than the sellers pictures going by yours!
I'm debating on blocking a buyer right now that bought my coin...and found one a little cheaper that doesn't hold a candle to my coin and is returning after having it for 2 weeks! I was offered the coin he bought last month and I believe it is a washed out overgarded coin.
I think I would block you!
To be 100% clear, I won two coins from the seller, and am keeping one. Why block bidders when you're openly accepting returns? Don't accept returns if you don't want to deal with them!
Another member mentioned a one and done policy on buyers that return coins. I am contemplating that strategy as well. Ebay is pretty much forcing sellers to not only accept, but pay 2 way shipping on returns. Most buyers keep their purchases, but a minority use Ebay as an approval service. Razor thin margins can quickly evaporate with those folks.
I would say I'm not one of those folks. I've returned two coins this year out of probably 1000+ coins purchased.
@amwldcoin said:
I have to agree with others! The coin is much nicer than the sellers pictures going by yours!
I'm debating on blocking a buyer right now that bought my coin...and found one a little cheaper that doesn't hold a candle to my coin and is returning after having it for 2 weeks! I was offered the coin he bought last month and I believe it is a washed out overgarded coin.
I think I would block you!
To be 100% clear, I won two coins from the seller, and am keeping one. Why block bidders when you're openly accepting returns? Don't accept returns if you don't want to deal with them!
Another member mentioned a one and done policy on buyers that return coins. I am contemplating that strategy as well. Ebay is pretty much forcing sellers to not only accept, but pay 2 way shipping on returns. Most buyers keep their purchases, but a minority use Ebay as an approval service. Razor thin margins can quickly evaporate with those folks.
Ebay doesn't force you to accept returns at all, so I have no idea what you're talking about. That's 100% your choice.
""I told them to use my pics and gave my honest opinion on what they'd get for it upon relisting it. It was less than what they got at auction the first time around. Relisted for $700 with those pics.""
FTB, I enjoy reading your posts but I must break with friends here...
Returns accepted, and you returned it. Fine.
But, what gets me about this whole episode is that you admittedly bid more than you thought it was worth on the high end, and your nuclear bid burned you.
In my opinion, that is the risk you take by exercising the nuclear option- that there is some other coin superpower with his finger also on the button.
You state "with 30 day returns, there is no risk outside of the shipping cost. So I was really risking $10 on bad pictures."
That is not very honorable.
It's not all about you. There is a seller. And he had a good sale. And now you want your money back because you paid too much, all of your own doing!
You very likely tainted his item for future sale. Because even though there was an underbidder, the chance of this coin selling for the same price is negligible as most everyone that bid the first time will think something is wrong.
I have purchased many coins on eBay where the seller accepts returns, and I never once returned an item that arrived as it was described, only because I took a chance that didnt benefit me.
I'm reminded of when I used to collect Lincoln cent varieties. I knew some people that would bid a coin to the moon, thinking it was a rare doubled die listed as a normal coin. And when the coin was received, if it wasnt what they thought some would simply return it.
Again, not very honorable.
You win some, you lose some... but deal with it.
At some point, even though the rules may provide you a golden parachute, one must take responsibility for a mistake. I'm sure you're way ahead in the win column after picking that 1888/7 Indian Cent last month.
Did you really have to send this one back over $200??
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Ebay doesn't force you to accept returns at all, so I have no idea what you're talking about. That's 100% your choice.
Actually Ebay will force you to accept a return and pay return shipping at the buyer's request. If you don't accept the return, Ebay will deduct the funds from your PayPal account anyway. The only benefit the seller receives by accepting the return is reimbursement for the seller fees.
Short story -
I sold a strobe light to a guy up North and my shipping cost was $27.00. A couple of weeks later I see a return request because the guy said that it didn't work when he wired it to his truck battery. Well, of course it didn't work because in the auction title it clearly stated "110 volt Strobe Light"
I pointed this out to Ebay and they said it didn't matter and that I should go ahead and accept the return and pay the return shipping because if I don't, they'll deduct the funds from my PayPal account and then I wont be reimbursed for my my sellers fees.
Ended up costing me $54 for nothing. This is just wrong.
Wisdom has been chasing you but, you've always been faster
I find it hard to believe that some of you have never returned items to Walmart, Lowes, Target etc. I mean, you picked it up, you looked at it, you paid for the agreed amount. The nuke bid was used to win something he wanted. If the coin isn't what he was pleased with when he got it in hand, he's correct in returning it.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
See if this makes sense. Then it may not happen again - because IMHO, the numismatic world would be better if it does not! And please remember, you did noting wrong because your actions were justified in your own mind and character.
The seller accepted returns, people, including myself, bid accordingly.
Yes, returns for any reason are permitted. The seller knows that; HOWEVER, the seller deserves to be protected from kids, trolls, buyers remorse, and dishonest bidders (not you of course). Perhaps the other high bidder actually wanted the coin rather than ruining the auction. BTW, by your own admission, YOU DID NOT BID ACCORDINGLY.
I apologized because I inconvenienced the seller. Regardless of if it is justified or not, I can still apologize. If I accidentally bump into you while walking by you, I'm going to apologize. It's just the right thing to do.
Yes, you ruined the auction and cost the seller money, pain, and suffering. LOL. Yet, "sorry" means nothing, did you offer to pay postage? BTW, "The right thing to do?" Think about that the next time you place fake bids.
Lastly, I explained my GRIPE as well... The seller is using inferior images to try to entice somebody else to overpay for it as well.
I cannot post my GRIPE because it pertains to all the busy-body, do-good, politically correct, moral police, in this world who think they know what's good for the rest of us. They remind me of a seriously CORRODED COIN that needs to be fixed!
@Moldnut said:
Do many send the seller extra money when they make a score?
Just asking.
NOT REQUIRED but...Some do. Many cherrypicker's (think of some of the best) are fair to the dealer. Some alert the dealer to a good coin but don't want it. I've even heard of dealers who made a big score giving the seller more money.
@1Mike1 said:
I find it hard to believe that some of you have never returned items to Walmart, Lowes, Target etc. I mean, you picked it up, you looked at it, you paid for the agreed amount. The nuke bid was used to win something he wanted. If the coin isn't what he was pleased with when he got it in hand, he's correct in returning it.
The nuke bid WAS MADE TO RUN UP THE PRICE SO HE COULD TAKE A COIN OFF THE AUCTION! Read the ORIGINAL reasons given in the thread. Not the SPIN!
@1Mike1 said:
I find it hard to believe that some of you have never returned items to Walmart, Lowes, Target etc. I mean, you picked it up, you looked at it, you paid for the agreed amount. The nuke bid was used to win something he wanted. If the coin isn't what he was pleased with when he got it in hand, he's correct in returning it.
Bought a bicycle at Wal Mart about 15 years ago. First since I was a teenager. Rode it home. Though it was an adult mountain type bike, I am tall and the seat was well extended...beyond was noted as safe by the manufacturer, though an employee set up the bike and indicated no concern.
Rode it back to the store and explained the concern at the return desk. No go said the clerk as bikes with tire wear are not returnable. When I explained the potential liability to the manager if I got injured, he quickly refunded my money.
I learned to buy a properly fitted bike next time and did (for triple the price).
I also learned that there can be pushback on returns sometimes.
..as we are headed off the rails..I figured I would share the story.
Agreeing with TomB, it's been a long time since eBay was just an "auction" site. It's now mostly a store, so I have no issues with the process as described. Most of the dealers I buy from would accept a return simply because I didn't like it, I don't see much of a difference.
It's always important to remember one's audience, your posting on a board made up of a high number of dealers that sell on ebay. So it's no surprise that your getting some flak for this return here. FWTW while I don't have a problem with returning the item I can also understand the seller not being very excited with how this has played out. And I also agree with what another said in an earlier post, your intentions may have been in the right place but sending pics and telling a seller what he should sell a coin for will never leave a good impression.
@shorecoll said:
Agreeing with TomB, it's been a long time since eBay was just an "auction" site. It's now mostly a store, so I have no issues with the process as described. Most of the dealers I buy from would accept a return simply because I didn't like it, I don't see much of a difference.
Sellers seem to be more comfortable with the return of a fixed price listing, though getting hosed for two way shipping has only added friction between buyer and seller.
As Ebay continues to slide down a sinkhole, expect additional idiotic moves on their part.
In fairness to the OP, 5 or ten years ago members here often boasted of Ebay rips, stating that if was not as expected, they could always return it. All they got was congratulatory pats on the back.
Only mistake by FTB was in the OP, criticizing the seller for listing it before it came back (don't see a problem there) and not using his better quality images (not sure many would). That sort of set the forum on its heels and resulted in a soon to be poofed thread.
I agree. I feel sorry for the honest sellers on Ebay. Seems buyers can return anything. > @Wabbit2313 said:
I would think Larry returned it because of what appears to be counting machine damage and the dark toning. That is only my guess though!
Don't see a wheel mark and if someone cannot tell the coin has very dark terminal toning from the blurred image... well, I feel sorry for honest Ebay sellers.
PS I like Fadetobalcks image. Coin should sell faster and the new guy will probably keep it.
Why the return? Educate us please as some of us are missing what you saw.
I already explained why. At $720, I can do a lot better for my money. See the $520 coin above. It's a nice coin, just not THAT nice. Not to me, at least. If the seller didn't want to take returns, they should have said "No Returns" and I wouldn't have bid more than $400 or so. If you want the elevated prices of a returns accepted auction, you have to take the elevated risk of a return.
Thing is though, of course saying "no returns" in an auction is essentially meaningless. Anyone for the most arcane of reasons can say "not as described" and send it back. I always assume a return could be in the cards, and when auctioning something, just ask that if it's not for them, that they return in same shape as sent, and communicate through eBay channels. Then let 'er rip.
The eBay returns accepted for many sellers is because they know even if they did not accept returns, some buyers know how to get around it and force it, with sellers eating shipping both ways. eBay also has an 'incentive' with cost discounts and power seller status for '30 day returns accepted'.
When I think of auctions I think highest bid at the end owns it. Many times I have overpaid when I think I see a variety and I was wrong and always keep them. I feel many small losses is cancelled by a big win.
I am wondering if OP does the same with Heritage, Stacks, Legend, ....using their auctions as a sight unseen approval service with a high bid?
@blu62vette said:
I bid on that one but based on both sets of images not a $720 coin. I stopped bidding afraid it would have no pop to the coin, and that looks to be the case. A little to dark and just not enough luster to make it real cool.
Yeah, it is definitely missing that "wow" factor. Probably a 64 tops. I mean, nice, yeah, but that nice.
Here's another pic the seller sent me, finally found it... This is what convinced me to nuke the auction. The bands over the head look bright and bold here, and the front of the face tempts a deeper green... Neither of which panned out, thus making it DOA.
I have to say in this instance FTB, I don't see what you were potentially seeing -- the coin looks "dead" in terms of luster through the toning in all the pics I've seen on this thread, the above image included. I will also caveat that you look at, and bid on, a lot more Morgans than I. So there's that, anyway.
See if this makes sense. Then it may not happen again - because IMHO, the numismatic world would be better if it does not! And please remember, you did noting wrong because your actions were justified in your own mind and character.
1. The seller accepted returns, people, including myself, bid accordingly.
Yes, returns for any reason are permitted. The seller knows that; HOWEVER, the seller deserves to be protected from kids, trolls, buyers remorse, and dishonest bidders (not you of course). Perhaps the other high bidder actually wanted the coin rather than ruining the auction. BTW, by your own admission, YOU DID NOT BID ACCORDINGLY.
I apologized because I inconvenienced the seller. Regardless of if it is justified or not, I can still apologize. If I accidentally bump into you while walking by you, I'm going to apologize. It's just the right thing to do.
Yes, you ruined the auction and cost the seller money, pain, and suffering. LOL. Yet, "sorry" means nothing, did you offer to pay postage? BTW, "The right thing to do?" Think about that the next time you place fake bids.
Lastly, I explained my GRIPE as well... The seller is using inferior images to try to entice somebody else to overpay for it as well.
I cannot post my GRIPE because it pertains to all the busy-body, do-good, politically correct, moral police, in this world who think they know what's good for the rest of us. They remind me of a seriously CORRODED COIN that needs to be fixed!
@Coinstartled said:
Oy Vey...so the coin goes for $1200 potentially. Seller thinks he scored and buys his wife some diamond earrings for Chanukah.
Instead he gets a return and some nice but rather disingenuous images.
What exactly is disingenuous about my images? You can't throw accusations around like that without backing them up. My images reflect the in-hand appearance of the coin.
If you go and spend the money before a sale is finalized, that's your fault. You'd be stupid to do that, and if you wanna do stupid things, well, you're gonna end up getting burned. I retain the funds from eBay sales in my bank account for 21 days, 7 days past my return policy, before I withdraw it (for my coins) or send it to my consignors.
QLicker likes to stir pots just for the sake of stirring them.
When does it become the responsibility of the bidder to honor their bid?
If the auction is for something that the buyer has to “speculate” on (ie. bad photos, no grade mentioned, etc.), is it not then on the buyer to use their own judgement and bid accordingly? Or is the buyer always free from responsibility if the seller accepts returns?
No one forces a bidder to bid, and no one else tells a bidder what to bid.
When or how does the seller become responsible for a bidder’s actions?
Now, if an item comes that is not authentic or is grossly misrepresented - wrong date, type, etc. - then I can understand a return. But, for subjective areas like grade, color, etc - the buyer has to become the “expert” and bid accordingly.
FTB followed the rules of eBay and did not act out of line of their policy. The seller could have offered the coin to the underbidder, technically.
That said, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Gives me the same vibe as the people who use tools and return them to the store, return opened packs of baseball cards to the store because the signature cards weren’t in the packs, return coins to the mint because they aren’t MS70, etc.
All of these fall within the grey area of returnable but we’ve seen policy changes based on those “abusing” the current policies.
Imagine if Heritage offered a return policy like this for those who couldn’t make the auction lot viewing? There’s a reason for that. In an auction setting if you’re going to take the risk and bid on photos, it’s buyer beware.
By following the eBay policy I could technically buy every old holdered coin on eBay and submit to CAC or PCGS for reconsideration and the coins that didn’t sticker or upgrade could be returned (as long as within the return window). Sure I followed the policy, but something doesn’t seem right about that.
In my humble opinion, if you are going to play the game you have to accept the wins and the losses.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
@amwldcoin said:
For the 1st time I have to disagree with you here! The original sellers pictures showed what I consider a dog turd! He got a nice coin and returned it.
If you ever sell on ebay you will understand some of our frustration!!
@Paradisefound said:
Hey everyone ....... he just sharing the episode with all of us and not for us to judge his decision
The initial point of discussion is seller listed prematurely before receiving the return so let it be ...... we discussed everything else with less substance around here
I would return it too if I am not happy and this is not a cheap coin.
Return is allowed on the listing isn't it?
I would understand if he was abusing the SNAD and shipped it back on the sellers dime, but if he paid the return shipping, then it's more or less a hassle, but no harm. Like he said, the seller accepts returns.
I agree ebay is a hassle at times, but this isn't all that bad and I see no reason to block him... (The OP)
I need a beer. (Oh look, a trainwreck thread)
.
.
This is exactly what I thought the minute I saw you post this.
But, I remain silent as I have no opinion because I do not judge anyone
@Coinstartled said:
Oy Vey...so the coin goes for $1200 potentially. Seller thinks he scored and buys his wife some diamond earrings for Chanukah.
Instead he gets a return and some nice but rather disingenuous images.
What exactly is disingenuous about my images? You can't throw accusations around like that without backing them up. My images reflect the in-hand appearance of the coin.
If you go and spend the money before a sale is finalized, that's your fault. You'd be stupid to do that, and if you wanna do stupid things, well, you're gonna end up getting burned. I retain the funds from eBay sales in my bank account for 21 days, 7 days past my return policy, before I withdraw it (for my coins) or send it to my consignors.
When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. To enter an insanely high crapshoot bid on a $300 max coin based on poor images is a waste of everyones time starting with the seller and including the under bidders. To buy two coins and say "heh heh, I will keep the score" will endear you to few Ebay sellers.
I have learned enough about toned coins, particularly Morgan Dollars that so called monster toning is heavily dependent on lighting and angle. I figure that it is better to try to understate the toning and have a satisfied customer, than to use your optimal type imaging and disappoint a buyer.
You have clearly carried out your side of the bargain and the seller will no doubt issue a refund. Trying to get the forums approval on the charade will be a much more challenging task.
@DCW said:
FTB, I enjoy reading your posts but I must break with friends here...
Returns accepted, and you returned it. Fine.
But, what gets me about this whole episode is that you admittedly bid more than you thought it was worth on the high end, and your nuclear bid burned you.
In my opinion, that is the risk you take by exercising the nuclear option- that there is some other coin superpower with his finger also on the button.
You state "with 30 day returns, there is no risk outside of the shipping cost. So I was really risking $10 on bad pictures."
That is not very honorable.
It's not all about you. There is a seller. And he had a good sale. And now you want your money back because you paid too much, all of your own doing!
You very likely tainted his item for future sale. Because even though there was an underbidder, the chance of this coin selling for the same price is negligible as most everyone that bid the first time will think something is wrong.
I have purchased many coins on eBay where the seller accepts returns, and I never once returned an item that arrived as it was described, only because I took a chance that didnt benefit me.
I'm reminded of when I used to collect Lincoln cent varieties. I knew some people that would bid a coin to the moon, thinking it was a rare doubled die listed as a normal coin. And when the coin was received, if it wasnt what they thought some would simply return it.
Again, not very honorable.
You win some, you lose some... but deal with it.
At some point, even though the rules may provide you a golden parachute, one must take responsibility for a mistake. I'm sure you're way ahead in the win column after picking that 1888/7 Indian Cent last month.
Did you really have to send this one back over $200??
He likely wouln't have bid $700 if they had accurate pictures...
@1Mike1 said:
I find it hard to believe that some of you have never returned items to Walmart, Lowes, Target etc. I mean, you picked it up, you looked at it, you paid for the agreed amount. The nuke bid was used to win something he wanted. If the coin isn't what he was pleased with when he got it in hand, he's correct in returning it.
i wouldn't call this thread a trainwreck yet, it's been mostly civil but with the usual expected sprinkling of pious faces with the "who just farted" pinched expression. All FTB did in the big picture is return a coin he didn't care for after viewing it in hand. he didn't swap it for another one or do anything deceptive, he just played by the existing rules.
I don't sell too much on Ebay, but I've had one coin returned because a bidder had spent too much on other coins he bid on. I didn't question it any further and refunded the money, no big shakes. I ended up selling it for more at a coin show later on down the road. I've returned a coin once because the variety was mis-attributed, which maybe I should have caught before bidding but I didn't. It happens.
Nice pictures but why blow up a seller on here? Why did you not cancel the order if you did not want to pay the big price? Was it to take pictures? Never mind that gouge is distracting perhaps that’s is why pictures fuzzy. Either way interesting thread when you think of it.
@FadeToBlack asked: "I don't see where you get off calling my bid fake and subtly accusing me of being a troll bidder? Keep in mind I bid on and won two coins, one of which I am keeping, so I'm clearly a serious buyer.
To save time I'll let this poster answer his own NON-question:
@FadetoBlack posted: "I nuked the auction and so did somebody else, thus leading to an unrealistic price.
BTW that "somebody else" may have been an HONEST bidder who was fighting with you to buy the coin that you "nuked" because you decided that the auction/coin DID NOT SUIT YOU! Perhaps it may have been better not to bid on a coin you couldn't see because of the poor image.
We all have different standards of behavior. That's why NO ONE can question your actions if you are comfortable with what you did. You should be applauded for your confession and apology. That coin will have a nice home - perhaps someone here will buy it - and keep it.
BTW that "somebody else" may have been an HONEST bidder who was fighting with you to buy the coin that you "nuked" because you decided that the auction/coin DID NOT SUIT YOU! Perhaps it may have been better not to bid on a coin you couldn't see because of the poor image.
Whose to say the other bidder would have kept the coin? They may have realized they overpaid as well and returned the coin since the seller accepts returns. We will never know.
BTW that "somebody else" may have been an HONEST bidder who was fighting with you to buy the coin that you "nuked" because you decided that the auction/coin DID NOT SUIT YOU! Perhaps it may have been better not to bid on a coin you couldn't see because of the poor image.
Whose to say the other bidder would have kept the coin? They may have realized they overpaid as well and returned the coin since the seller accepts returns. We will never know.
Don't know all the possible outcomes. I do know that actual auctions on Ebay have become relatively scarce. Fixed price listings have made it a duller but more stable venue.
Comments
I've been looking for a 7A for a while. I used to have a GSA example a long time ago and I miss it. though I would prefer one a lil' more @Ricko approved!
If FTB paid shipping costs and returned promptly, both of which he seemed to do, then that is quite reasonable. As the seller I would only be annoyed that getting someone to pay such an apparently unwarranted premium a second time is probably not likely.
It only grinds my gears when buyers are weasels and force me as a seller to pay shipping based on bogus claims.
I don't see a problem with returns. If an item you paid for (doesn't have to be coins) isn't what you're led to believe it is through advertising then it should be returnable. Giving the benefit of the doubt the nuke bid was made on something that looked nicer than it was.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Wow, 54 responses so far. Buyer won item on eBay with returns allowed. He opted to return the coin. What’s the big deal? Who cares why he returned the coin? Yes eBay is an approval service sometimes.
""I told them to use my pics and gave my honest opinion on what they'd get for it upon relisting it. It was less than what they got at auction the first time around. Relisted for $700 with those pics.""
Egads
FTB, I enjoy reading your posts but I must break with friends here...
Returns accepted, and you returned it. Fine.
But, what gets me about this whole episode is that you admittedly bid more than you thought it was worth on the high end, and your nuclear bid burned you.
In my opinion, that is the risk you take by exercising the nuclear option- that there is some other coin superpower with his finger also on the button.
You state "with 30 day returns, there is no risk outside of the shipping cost. So I was really risking $10 on bad pictures."
That is not very honorable.
It's not all about you. There is a seller. And he had a good sale. And now you want your money back because you paid too much, all of your own doing!
You very likely tainted his item for future sale. Because even though there was an underbidder, the chance of this coin selling for the same price is negligible as most everyone that bid the first time will think something is wrong.
I have purchased many coins on eBay where the seller accepts returns, and I never once returned an item that arrived as it was described, only because I took a chance that didnt benefit me.
I'm reminded of when I used to collect Lincoln cent varieties. I knew some people that would bid a coin to the moon, thinking it was a rare doubled die listed as a normal coin. And when the coin was received, if it wasnt what they thought some would simply return it.
Again, not very honorable.
You win some, you lose some... but deal with it.
At some point, even though the rules may provide you a golden parachute, one must take responsibility for a mistake. I'm sure you're way ahead in the win column after picking that 1888/7 Indian Cent last month.
Did you really have to send this one back over $200??
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Actually Ebay will force you to accept a return and pay return shipping at the buyer's request. If you don't accept the return, Ebay will deduct the funds from your PayPal account anyway. The only benefit the seller receives by accepting the return is reimbursement for the seller fees.
Short story -
I sold a strobe light to a guy up North and my shipping cost was $27.00. A couple of weeks later I see a return request because the guy said that it didn't work when he wired it to his truck battery. Well, of course it didn't work because in the auction title it clearly stated "110 volt Strobe Light"
I pointed this out to Ebay and they said it didn't matter and that I should go ahead and accept the return and pay the return shipping because if I don't, they'll deduct the funds from my PayPal account and then I wont be reimbursed for my my sellers fees.
Ended up costing me $54 for nothing. This is just wrong.
Wisdom has been chasing you but, you've always been faster
I find it hard to believe that some of you have never returned items to Walmart, Lowes, Target etc. I mean, you picked it up, you looked at it, you paid for the agreed amount.
The nuke bid was used to win something he wanted. If the coin isn't what he was pleased with when he got it in hand, he's correct in returning it.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@FadeToBlack
See if this makes sense. Then it may not happen again - because IMHO, the numismatic world would be better if it does not!
And please remember, you did noting wrong because your actions were justified in your own mind and character.
Yes, returns for any reason are permitted. The seller knows that; HOWEVER, the seller deserves to be protected from kids, trolls, buyers remorse, and dishonest bidders (not you of course). Perhaps the other high bidder actually wanted the coin rather than ruining the auction. BTW, by your own admission, YOU DID NOT BID ACCORDINGLY.
Yes, you ruined the auction and cost the seller money, pain, and suffering. LOL. Yet, "sorry" means nothing, did you offer to pay postage? BTW, "The right thing to do?" Think about that the next time you place fake bids.
I cannot post my GRIPE because it pertains to all the busy-body, do-good, politically correct, moral police, in this world who think they know what's good for the rest of us. They remind me of a seriously CORRODED COIN that needs to be fixed!
EDIT images did not post the first time.
Do many send the seller extra money when they make a score?
Just asking.
EAC 6024
NOT REQUIRED but...Some do. Many cherrypicker's (think of some of the best) are fair to the dealer. Some alert the dealer to a good coin but don't want it. I've even heard of dealers who made a big score giving the seller more money.
The nuke bid WAS MADE TO RUN UP THE PRICE SO HE COULD TAKE A COIN OFF THE AUCTION! Read the ORIGINAL reasons given in the thread. Not the SPIN!
Bought a bicycle at Wal Mart about 15 years ago. First since I was a teenager. Rode it home. Though it was an adult mountain type bike, I am tall and the seat was well extended...beyond was noted as safe by the manufacturer, though an employee set up the bike and indicated no concern.
Rode it back to the store and explained the concern at the return desk. No go said the clerk as bikes with tire wear are not returnable. When I explained the potential liability to the manager if I got injured, he quickly refunded my money.
I learned to buy a properly fitted bike next time and did (for triple the price).
I also learned that there can be pushback on returns sometimes.
..as we are headed off the rails..I figured I would share the story.
Agreeing with TomB, it's been a long time since eBay was just an "auction" site. It's now mostly a store, so I have no issues with the process as described. Most of the dealers I buy from would accept a return simply because I didn't like it, I don't see much of a difference.
It's always important to remember one's audience, your posting on a board made up of a high number of dealers that sell on ebay. So it's no surprise that your getting some flak for this return here. FWTW while I don't have a problem with returning the item I can also understand the seller not being very excited with how this has played out. And I also agree with what another said in an earlier post, your intentions may have been in the right place but sending pics and telling a seller what he should sell a coin for will never leave a good impression.
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Sellers seem to be more comfortable with the return of a fixed price listing, though getting hosed for two way shipping has only added friction between buyer and seller.
As Ebay continues to slide down a sinkhole, expect additional idiotic moves on their part.
In fairness to the OP, 5 or ten years ago members here often boasted of Ebay rips, stating that if was not as expected, they could always return it. All they got was congratulatory pats on the back.
Only mistake by FTB was in the OP, criticizing the seller for listing it before it came back (don't see a problem there) and not using his better quality images (not sure many would). That sort of set the forum on its heels and resulted in a soon to be poofed thread.
Thing is though, of course saying "no returns" in an auction is essentially meaningless. Anyone for the most arcane of reasons can say "not as described" and send it back. I always assume a return could be in the cards, and when auctioning something, just ask that if it's not for them, that they return in same shape as sent, and communicate through eBay channels. Then let 'er rip.
The eBay returns accepted for many sellers is because they know even if they did not accept returns, some buyers know how to get around it and force it, with sellers eating shipping both ways. eBay also has an 'incentive' with cost discounts and power seller status for '30 day returns accepted'.
When I think of auctions I think highest bid at the end owns it. Many times I have overpaid when I think I see a variety and I was wrong and always keep them. I feel many small losses is cancelled by a big win.
I am wondering if OP does the same with Heritage, Stacks, Legend, ....using their auctions as a sight unseen approval service with a high bid?
I have to say in this instance FTB, I don't see what you were potentially seeing -- the coin looks "dead" in terms of luster through the toning in all the pics I've seen on this thread, the above image included. I will also caveat that you look at, and bid on, a lot more Morgans than I. So there's that, anyway.
That is one sorry S-mint Indian Head!
So it all comes down to you would have kept the coin if you were able to cherrypick the seller?
Oy Vey...so the coin goes for $1200 potentially. Seller thinks he scored and buys his wife some diamond earrings for Chanukah.
Instead he gets a return and some nice but rather disingenuous images.
QLicker likes to stir pots just for the sake of stirring them.
When does it become the responsibility of the bidder to honor their bid?
If the auction is for something that the buyer has to “speculate” on (ie. bad photos, no grade mentioned, etc.), is it not then on the buyer to use their own judgement and bid accordingly? Or is the buyer always free from responsibility if the seller accepts returns?
No one forces a bidder to bid, and no one else tells a bidder what to bid.
When or how does the seller become responsible for a bidder’s actions?
Now, if an item comes that is not authentic or is grossly misrepresented - wrong date, type, etc. - then I can understand a return. But, for subjective areas like grade, color, etc - the buyer has to become the “expert” and bid accordingly.
I will say the following:
FTB followed the rules of eBay and did not act out of line of their policy. The seller could have offered the coin to the underbidder, technically.
That said, it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Gives me the same vibe as the people who use tools and return them to the store, return opened packs of baseball cards to the store because the signature cards weren’t in the packs, return coins to the mint because they aren’t MS70, etc.
All of these fall within the grey area of returnable but we’ve seen policy changes based on those “abusing” the current policies.
Imagine if Heritage offered a return policy like this for those who couldn’t make the auction lot viewing? There’s a reason for that. In an auction setting if you’re going to take the risk and bid on photos, it’s buyer beware.
By following the eBay policy I could technically buy every old holdered coin on eBay and submit to CAC or PCGS for reconsideration and the coins that didn’t sticker or upgrade could be returned (as long as within the return window). Sure I followed the policy, but something doesn’t seem right about that.
In my humble opinion, if you are going to play the game you have to accept the wins and the losses.
I would understand if he was abusing the SNAD and shipped it back on the sellers dime, but if he paid the return shipping, then it's more or less a hassle, but no harm. Like he said, the seller accepts returns.
I agree ebay is a hassle at times, but this isn't all that bad and I see no reason to block him... (The OP)
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This is exactly what I thought the minute I saw you post this.
But, I remain silent as I have no opinion because I do not judge anyone
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When you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging. To enter an insanely high crapshoot bid on a $300 max coin based on poor images is a waste of everyones time starting with the seller and including the under bidders. To buy two coins and say "heh heh, I will keep the score" will endear you to few Ebay sellers.
I have learned enough about toned coins, particularly Morgan Dollars that so called monster toning is heavily dependent on lighting and angle. I figure that it is better to try to understate the toning and have a satisfied customer, than to use your optimal type imaging and disappoint a buyer.
You have clearly carried out your side of the bargain and the seller will no doubt issue a refund. Trying to get the forums approval on the charade will be a much more challenging task.
He likely wouln't have bid $700 if they had accurate pictures...
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I'm sure glad the disagree button is gone since if was still available we'd have a full scale forum war by now.
For me, the takeaway is that the purpose of a nuclear bid means different things to different things to different people.
i wouldn't call this thread a trainwreck yet, it's been mostly civil but with the usual expected sprinkling of pious faces with the "who just farted" pinched expression. All FTB did in the big picture is return a coin he didn't care for after viewing it in hand. he didn't swap it for another one or do anything deceptive, he just played by the existing rules.
I don't sell too much on Ebay, but I've had one coin returned because a bidder had spent too much on other coins he bid on. I didn't question it any further and refunded the money, no big shakes. I ended up selling it for more at a coin show later on down the road. I've returned a coin once because the variety was mis-attributed, which maybe I should have caught before bidding but I didn't. It happens.
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There'd be a whole lot more drama, if you needed a joint.
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The diamond earrings.
Nice pictures but why blow up a seller on here? Why did you not cancel the order if you did not want to pay the big price? Was it to take pictures? Never mind that gouge is distracting perhaps that’s is why pictures fuzzy. Either way interesting thread when you think of it.
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@FadeToBlack asked: "I don't see where you get off calling my bid fake and subtly accusing me of being a troll bidder? Keep in mind I bid on and won two coins, one of which I am keeping, so I'm clearly a serious buyer.
To save time I'll let this poster answer his own NON-question:
@FadetoBlack posted: "I nuked the auction and so did somebody else, thus leading to an unrealistic price.
BTW that "somebody else" may have been an HONEST bidder who was fighting with you to buy the coin that you "nuked" because you decided that the auction/coin DID NOT SUIT YOU! Perhaps it may have been better not to bid on a coin you couldn't see because of the poor image.
We all have different standards of behavior. That's why NO ONE can question your actions if you are comfortable with what you did. You should be applauded for your confession and apology. That coin will have a nice home - perhaps someone here will buy it - and keep it.
Whose to say the other bidder would have kept the coin? They may have realized they overpaid as well and returned the coin since the seller accepts returns. We will never know.
Don't know all the possible outcomes. I do know that actual auctions on Ebay have become relatively scarce. Fixed price listings have made it a duller but more stable venue.