@Bochiman said:
Something to remember is "what CAC truly means".
It isn't just about "meeting the grade". If a coin has a look that JA doesn't want to deal in, then it, to my understanding, may not CAC regardless of meeting the grade on the holder well enough.
For instance, a toned copper coin may have a grade and a RB or BN designation but JA doesn't like the toning (not because it may be AT but just because he doesn't like it on a coin). No CAC sticker.
May happen to other coins as well, but I know, from him telling me himself on a call, that coins could fail to sticker because he didn't like/wasn't a fan of the toning.
I didn't know JA felt that way about toned coins. Now I'm even more impressed with CAC's standards!
I know little or nothing about CAC but I did a little research after reading an article in Coin World. Look at the spread on this and, judging from the EBay pics only, some of the 66+ coins were nicer than those that had a CAC Green sticker. Maybe someone could help me better understand this. Thanks very much. BTW: Buy It Now prices.
Taken from EBay on 11/14/2018 - Morgan Dollars
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $2050.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $1465.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $ 895.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $ 435.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC S 269.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+PL S 625.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ S 450.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ $ 435.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ $ 325.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ S 285.00
The list above is for a common enough coin in a fairly easy grade. Even CAC stickers cannot tell the whole story. There has to be some spectacular color involved too.
Even so, CAC stickered coins generally will increase the value of widget coins by 15% to 20% so if the coin sells for $100 and you paid only $75 you're not going to lose money.
The preferred shipping method for a package valued above a few hundred dollars is Registered Mail (IMO). It has to be boxed and then wrapped in that brown paper tape you wet to make stick. For me anything under $300 goes First Class (Tracking), anything over that but under $1,000 would just go Registered and anything above $1,000 would go Registered with Insurance.
If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
@Bochiman said:
Something to remember is "what CAC truly means".
It isn't just about "meeting the grade". If a coin has a look that JA doesn't want to deal in, then it, to my understanding, may not CAC regardless of meeting the grade on the holder well enough.
For instance, a toned copper coin may have a grade and a RB or BN designation but JA doesn't like the toning (not because it may be AT but just because he doesn't like it on a coin). No CAC sticker.
May happen to other coins as well, but I know, from him telling me himself on a call, that coins could fail to sticker because he didn't like/wasn't a fan of the toning.
I didn't know JA felt that way about toned coins. Now I'm even more impressed with CAC's standards!
I’m not sure what your takeaway was there, but JA most definitely likes toned coins and stickers them. Bochiman was referring to some specific toning on a specific coin. Even toned coin fanatics find some toned examples unpleasant.
There is no way to know, right? Under previous certification it could have been sent there; and they don't say whether a coin has been sent in or not resulting in huge numbers of resubmissions.
@Bochiman said:
Something to remember is "what CAC truly means".
It isn't just about "meeting the grade". If a coin has a look that JA doesn't want to deal in, then it, to my understanding, may not CAC regardless of meeting the grade on the holder well enough.
For instance, a toned copper coin may have a grade and a RB or BN designation but JA doesn't like the toning (not because it may be AT but just because he doesn't like it on a coin). No CAC sticker.
May happen to other coins as well, but I know, from him telling me himself on a call, that coins could fail to sticker because he didn't like/wasn't a fan of the toning.
I didn't know JA felt that way about toned coins. Now I'm even more impressed with CAC's standards!
I’m not sure what your takeaway was there, but JA most definitely likes toned coins and stickers them. Bochiman was referring to some specific toning on a specific coin. Even toned coin fanatics find some toned examples unpleasant.
Exactly. I wasn't trying to say "toned coins" as a generalization. There are some types of toning, even if NT, that he doesn't prefer and that impacts getting a sticker, even if it is an accurate grade. Could one crack, dip, re-submit for plastic and then re-submit for a sticker and get it? Maybe.
In my case, there are types of toning, on copper, that I am aware that he doesn't like that much. Nothing was said about the grade, just about the toning. It's why, I think, there aren't as many toned IHC proofs stickered as one might expect, compared to other series possibly.
I have a lot of coins that I have sent to CAC that are stickered. I have had some get gold as well. I did it for coins from $50-$xxxx. Reason was I wanted to learn what he was seeing and his thoughts. Most of the lower valued coins that I sent, that got a sticker, probably don't change much, but I did learn. It was "fun" to do so, imo, for me.
This thread (and another) got me thinking about the % of any series of coins that has been sent to CAC for review. That's hard to really know since CAC only publishes a "beaned" series population report. (Someone correct me if that's wrong) They just don't tell you about those that don't get a bean.
So I picked a coin (my favorite) a 1893-s Morgan dollar which is one of the more expensive and harder to get in the Morgan series, in any grade. I then did a quick study on the number of coins that had been certified by PCGS and NGC and then got a CAC sticker.
At this point in time, only 5% of the PCGS and NGC certified 93-S Morgans have a bean. I've got the numbers if anyone is interested. Of course this doesn't tell you everything since we don't know how many have been sent in and didn't get a bean. I sure more than 5% have been sent in. Maybe 10%, 20% ???? I guess only CAC knows for sure.
Makes me wonder how many in a specific date/mm like this have been sent in and didn't get a bean, since even in the low grades, a 93s is several thousand dollars and goes way up from there.
Browse the pictures. That site has a GREAT browsing feature that shows the pic by just moving the mouse over it.
Then.... add a search feature.
In this instance, "CAC" and see how the appearance of the browsed material changes.
Great experience. Educational, too.
It's surprising how good some of the "details" coins look in pictures when you are browsing the unfiltered list of the series you picked.
So how old is JA and what kind of health is he in?
Will we be switching to that young Stuppler for a PQ sticker in the future?
Some idiot bought a MS65/CAC over a MS66 that clearly looked better (near same price)
I saw the whole thing happen and was astounded.
PCGS may have a market in downgrading for a bean.
What ReadyFireAim said. Here's a little something I came across:
Coin Update
November 10, 2018 at 8:41 am
Well I’m not convinced yet. While searching eBay for a set of uncirculated 1939 half dollars, I came across a set of three proof half dollars.
In the order they were in:
First was a 1938 NGC PF66 Proof Silver Walking Liberty Half Dollar for $699.00.
Second was a 1938 PCGS PR 65, Silver Proof Walking Liberty Half Dollar with a CAC green sticker for $721.00.
Third was a 1938 PCGS PR 66, Silver Proof Walking Liberty Half Dollar selling for $699.00.
All three were being sold by different vendors. So the only thing in common were the coins themselves, 1938 proof half dollars. I think the situation speaks for itself; a coin that is graded one point less than the other two would cost 21 dollars more. Is the green sticker a value added item to the point that you would pay the extra money for a lesser coin? I think not. I would attribute the excitement of the moment to the increased price of the auctions you’ve been citing. It’s happened to me that I would get caught up in the moment of bidding against someone else and bid significantly more than the item was worth. But when given the opportunity, and time, to evaluate what you’re bidding on, I believe most people will not pay more than they have to, to get what they want
Comments
I didn't know JA felt that way about toned coins. Now I'm even more impressed with CAC's standards!
I know little or nothing about CAC but I did a little research after reading an article in Coin World. Look at the spread on this and, judging from the EBay pics only, some of the 66+ coins were nicer than those that had a CAC Green sticker. Maybe someone could help me better understand this. Thanks very much. BTW: Buy It Now prices.
Taken from EBay on 11/14/2018 - Morgan Dollars
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $2050.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $1465.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $ 895.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC $ 435.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66 CAC S 269.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+PL S 625.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ S 450.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ $ 435.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ $ 325.00
1881 S PCGS MS 66+ S 285.00
The list above is for a common enough coin in a fairly easy grade. Even CAC stickers cannot tell the whole story. There has to be some spectacular color involved too.
Even so, CAC stickered coins generally will increase the value of widget coins by 15% to 20% so if the coin sells for $100 and you paid only $75 you're not going to lose money.
The preferred shipping method for a package valued above a few hundred dollars is Registered Mail (IMO). It has to be boxed and then wrapped in that brown paper tape you wet to make stick. For me anything under $300 goes First Class (Tracking), anything over that but under $1,000 would just go Registered and anything above $1,000 would go Registered with Insurance.
I’m not sure what your takeaway was there, but JA most definitely likes toned coins and stickers them. Bochiman was referring to some specific toning on a specific coin. Even toned coin fanatics find some toned examples unpleasant.
There is no way to know, right? Under previous certification it could have been sent there; and they don't say whether a coin has been sent in or not resulting in huge numbers of resubmissions.
Exactly. I wasn't trying to say "toned coins" as a generalization. There are some types of toning, even if NT, that he doesn't prefer and that impacts getting a sticker, even if it is an accurate grade. Could one crack, dip, re-submit for plastic and then re-submit for a sticker and get it? Maybe.
In my case, there are types of toning, on copper, that I am aware that he doesn't like that much. Nothing was said about the grade, just about the toning. It's why, I think, there aren't as many toned IHC proofs stickered as one might expect, compared to other series possibly.
I have a lot of coins that I have sent to CAC that are stickered. I have had some get gold as well. I did it for coins from $50-$xxxx. Reason was I wanted to learn what he was seeing and his thoughts. Most of the lower valued coins that I sent, that got a sticker, probably don't change much, but I did learn. It was "fun" to do so, imo, for me.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
PCGS 65 RB, crossed from NGC 65 RB, purchased in 1998.
Proof Buffalo Registry Set
Capped Bust Quarters Registry Set
Proof Walking Liberty Halves Registry Set
This thread (and another) got me thinking about the % of any series of coins that has been sent to CAC for review. That's hard to really know since CAC only publishes a "beaned" series population report. (Someone correct me if that's wrong) They just don't tell you about those that don't get a bean.
So I picked a coin (my favorite) a 1893-s Morgan dollar which is one of the more expensive and harder to get in the Morgan series, in any grade. I then did a quick study on the number of coins that had been certified by PCGS and NGC and then got a CAC sticker.
At this point in time, only 5% of the PCGS and NGC certified 93-S Morgans have a bean. I've got the numbers if anyone is interested. Of course this doesn't tell you everything since we don't know how many have been sent in and didn't get a bean. I sure more than 5% have been sent in. Maybe 10%, 20% ???? I guess only CAC knows for sure.
Makes me wonder how many in a specific date/mm like this have been sent in and didn't get a bean, since even in the low grades, a 93s is several thousand dollars and goes way up from there.
If anyone wants a fun experience, go to Collector's Corner and select a series.
http://www.collectorscorner.com/
Browse the pictures. That site has a GREAT browsing feature that shows the pic by just moving the mouse over it.
Then.... add a search feature.
In this instance, "CAC" and see how the appearance of the browsed material changes.
Great experience. Educational, too.
It's surprising how good some of the "details" coins look in pictures when you are browsing the unfiltered list of the series you picked.
So how old is JA and what kind of health is he in?
Will we be switching to that young Stuppler for a PQ sticker in the future?
Some idiot bought a MS65/CAC over a MS66 that clearly looked better (near same price)
I saw the whole thing happen and was astounded.
PCGS may have a market in downgrading for a bean.
My Saint Set
What ReadyFireAim said. Here's a little something I came across:
Coin Update
November 10, 2018 at 8:41 am
Well I’m not convinced yet. While searching eBay for a set of uncirculated 1939 half dollars, I came across a set of three proof half dollars.
In the order they were in:
First was a 1938 NGC PF66 Proof Silver Walking Liberty Half Dollar for $699.00.
Second was a 1938 PCGS PR 65, Silver Proof Walking Liberty Half Dollar with a CAC green sticker for $721.00.
Third was a 1938 PCGS PR 66, Silver Proof Walking Liberty Half Dollar selling for $699.00.
All three were being sold by different vendors. So the only thing in common were the coins themselves, 1938 proof half dollars. I think the situation speaks for itself; a coin that is graded one point less than the other two would cost 21 dollars more. Is the green sticker a value added item to the point that you would pay the extra money for a lesser coin? I think not. I would attribute the excitement of the moment to the increased price of the auctions you’ve been citing. It’s happened to me that I would get caught up in the moment of bidding against someone else and bid significantly more than the item was worth. But when given the opportunity, and time, to evaluate what you’re bidding on, I believe most people will not pay more than they have to, to get what they want