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What are Pilgrim commems graded on?

topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

This issue is a poser. I'm looking at several and seeing hardly (Or no) difference (at least in the images) between 63 and higher.
I can actually SEE grade differentials on the others, but the Pilgrim is throwing me for a loop.
???

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 43,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    This issue is a poser. I'm looking at several and seeing hardly (Or no) difference (at least in the images) between 63 and higher.
    I can actually SEE grade differentials on the others, but the Pilgrim is throwing me for a loop.
    ???

    I'm not sure I understand the question, especially as related to MS 63 coins where things like high point wear should not be an issue and where strength of strike is not yet an issue. Do you have examples?

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not specific. I'm just not seeing appreciable difference in browsing several coins.

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    SmudgeSmudge Posts: 10,019 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018 8:35AM

    After looking at some examples on eBay and other sources I see your point. Some 63's look very clean well struck and appear from the pix to have good luster. I would like to see a Pilgrim Photo grade to see them lined up and graded.

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    sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,065 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ""What are Pilgrim commems graded on?""

    They are graded on workstation tables with a soft surface, correct lighting and about 7x magnification. ;)

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

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    ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    Not specific. I'm just not seeing appreciable difference in browsing several coins.

    Then browse MORE. o:) Heritage archives should have hundreds of images. ;)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
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    KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Strike, center,color go into grade after the normal counting of the scratch/marks

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 43,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kkathyl said:
    Strike, center,color go into grade after the normal counting of the scratch/marks

    center? Centering is more a stamp and currency issue. I'm confused. Is that an autocorrect?

    Color is more controversial, of course. It's not really in the grading guidelines...other than AT.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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    MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,812 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What are Pilgrim commems graded on?

    I don't know what they're graded on, but I've heard lots of people speculate on what the graders are taking and it's probably the same for all coins, not just Pilgrims.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
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    shorecollshorecoll Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I believe it's the same with BTWs and WCs.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    They are graded on a sliding scale from 1 to 70. ForUncirculated examples, look in the ANA Grading Guide under Morgan dollars. You'll see a very helpful chart to use as an initial guide. You may wish to stay with coins slabbed by the four major grading services until you learn what original coins look like and the differences within Uncirculated grades. Images are helpful when you know what to look for; however examining graded coins is more efficient.

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I went for this one that has the subtle appearance of a pewter medallic rendition. >:)

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    topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    But I still don't see the grading criteria elements.

    :)

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 43,369 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    But I still don't see the grading criteria elements.

    :)

    LOL

    I think what you really mean to say is that you don't see the marks on the coin. For UNC coins, the only issue in the lower MS grades is the number of marks. In the higher MS grades, things like strike become an issue as well.

    I think the issue is the texture to the coin which makes it hard to pick up some of the marks from the photos.

    Unfortunately, I only have two Pilgrims in hand right now: 1920 (PCGS MS62, OGH) and a 1921 (PCGS MS65 CAC). The 65 clearly has better luster in hand. At first glance, the marks on either pilgrim aren't obvious. Under magnification, you can see more small contact marks on the 62, many of which are kind of "hidden" in the devices.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @topstuf said:
    But I still don't see the grading criteria elements.

    :)

    ANA Grading Guide, 6th Edition, pp#267.
    ANA Grading Guide, 5th Edition, pp#287.
    ANA Grading Guide, 4th Edition, pp#271.
    ANA Grading Guide, 1st to 3rd Editions in storage at the moment.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2, 2018 10:15PM

    @jmlanzaf said: "I think what you really mean to say is that you don't see the marks on the coin. For UNC coins, the only issue in the lower MS grades is the number of marks. In the higher MS grades, things like strike become an issue as well."

    I'll suggest that you may wish to read the page in one of the Editions I posted above. :) I've found these charts to be extremely simple to use and they get a beginning grader within 1/2 to 1 point of a Morgan dollar's grade virtually all of the time once they learn what original luster, marks, etc look like. With a little practice, the chart works for most coins.

    I keep a 3' X 3.5' blowup within easy sight in the grading room.

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    jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 43,369 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 3, 2018 1:08AM

    @Insider2 said:
    @jmlanzaf said: "I think what you really mean to say is that you don't see the marks on the coin. For UNC coins, the only issue in the lower MS grades is the number of marks. In the higher MS grades, things like strike become an issue as well."

    I'll suggest that you may wish to read the page in one of the Editions I posted above. :) I've found these charts to be extremely simple to use and they get a beginning grader within 1/2 to 1 point of a Morgan dollar's grade virtually all of the time once they learn what original luster, marks, etc look like. With a little practice, the chart works for most coins.

    I keep a 3' X 3.5' blowup within easy sight in the grading room.

    Are you suggesting that the difference between 61 62 63 an 64 is not a matter of surface marks? The ANA would disagree. Strike or luster are not an issue until you get to 65 or above, as I said. If you would like to refresh your memory, there is a summary here:

    https://thesprucecrafts.com/ana-grading-for-uncirculated-state-coins-4041821

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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    BGBG Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    On the obverse check the high areas of Gov. Bradford's portrait and his hat for friction. On the reverse check the ship's rigging and the stern of the vessel. Most coins have scattered contact marks, particularly on the obverse. Nearly all 1921 coins are this way. Many coins(particularly coins which are early impressions from thew die's) show tiny raised lines in the obverse field, representing die finish marks; these are not to be confused with hairlines or other evidences of friction (which are recessed). Courtesy of QDB Encyclopedia, p. 143-144.

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    abcde12345abcde12345 Posts: 3,404 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Most are graded on table tops.

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    TopoftheHillTopoftheHill Posts: 204 ✭✭✭

    https://www.pcgs.com/cert/21343506

    A typical MS65 Pilgrim. :o:o:o:o

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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,941 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When looking at photos it’s sometimes hard to evaluate luster. It alone can be the factor that differentiates a 64 from a 67.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Buy a copy of the NCI Grading Guide. There are images of the first signs of wear on Commemorative coins. It is a good start. I don't always agree with some of the places shown for the FIRST signs of friction wear because I look at coins with a stereomicroscope at about 7X using fluorescent light.

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