To keep this post off track, I'll add that I would never suggest investing exclusively in coins, and I would not expect coins to outperform the stock market in the long run. But as part of a diversified portfolio, a shrewdly assembled collection of coins can make perfect sense. And FWIW, I know enough people who have done well with their coins that I know it's possible to win at the game.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Online is the way for many to go until bourse fees come down to a reasonable amount for many shows making it worth my while. Other shows in bad locations where retail buyer with money traffic always been bad.
Shows just aren’t generating the retail traffic vs the past. Furthermore many of the people coming in the door are broke with really nothing worth buying. Just a lot of looky looks.
I don’t know much for somewhere like Cali which am sure is better (more money out there) but travel cost a big overhead hole get out of.
Coin SHOP margins are dependent on the AMOUNT OF SCRAP that walks in.
My ...numismatic... bizz would have ...maybe... sustained a flea.
IF I had a shop dog.
I was in Sacramento, a government town.
Need I explain? NOTHING is "cheap enough."
In the 70's when I was vest pocketing, I could come to Sacto twice a week and buy out of the case and take it back to...
...STOCKTON...
of all places and make a profit selling to dealers there. In Stockton, I had actual collectors.
Should never have moved. Seduced by population and bright lights.
However...... the reluctance of Sacto people to pay anyone for anything...... when I got my PAWN license, it was a gold mine.
Don’t know if it’s business “model”, but there are attributes / efforts that seem to make some dealers very successful:
Excellent internet presence
Blog, market report, etc. updated weekly
Email distribution list, with regular emails featuring new inventory, fresh coins
A FOCUS on some particular aspect of the market e.g. high end CAC rarities with some generic CAC gold thrown in, colonial CAC, toned commemoratives, early dirty gold, etc.
Excellent photography (as mentioned earlier)
Hauling the same tired crap from depressing show to depressing show doesn’t sound like the model for large profits.
As one of those old-fashioned "True Collectors", I don't see as I have a horse in this race. Pretty much everything I collect is probably a "widget". The projected value of my entire collection will likely be around $10k once the dust settles. So, I'm not in this as some sort of investment (that's why I have a retirement account, 401k, ss, etc.) and it doesn't concern me how long something stays "in inventory " (the longer the better for me).
That said, I do agree that the Internet has played a strong role in changing this hobby. I don't have to rely on the Red Book or Grey Sheet for information. This greatly informs my buying decisions. But, I'm only spending $100 to $250 on most coins, with a few approaching the 4 figure range.
Given the paucity of collectors, and the trend of the hobby... how many are leaving due to the influx of Chinese counterfeits, slab fees, etc... wouldn't it make economic sense for me to simply abandon the hobby for 10-15 years or so and then everything will be that much less sought after, thus less expensive? I rather doubt this would be the case, and I hope it's not, but I'm sure there are plenty of stamp and baseball card collectors that would disagree.
In the meantime, I'll continue to collect my widgets, look at my albums, and enjoy this hobby for the entertainment it provides me.
Collecting: Dansco 7070; Middle Date Large Cents (VF-AU); Box of 20;
Nobody has mentioned the extra "hurdle" to get coins made "more valuable" with stickers.
That is a factor and it can't be denied.
Watch some unstickered coins for a while. They stay and stay and stay "FOR SALE."
This thread is depressing. All of a sudden, I am no longer a collector of historic pieces of art that are valuable and sought after, I am buying useless "widgets" that are common, probably dreck, hyped up, overpriced and guaranteed to lose money compared to other "investments".
@topstuf said:
Nobody has mentioned the extra "hurdle" to get coins made "more valuable" with stickers.
That is a factor and it can't be denied.
Watch some unstickered coins for a while. They stay and stay and stay "FOR SALE."
There's a bit of confirmation bias here. If you are looking at slabbed/stickered coins on the internet, you think in terms of slabbed/stickered coins on the internet. In which case, the extra sticker makes a difference.
You can sell a lot of raw coins and unstickered coins. They don't necessarily stay and stay and stay IF PRICED CORRECTLY. 95% of the coins I sell are neither slabbed nor stickered. The coins I have that have been around the longest are often the slabbed/stickered coins because I WANT MORE for them.
Everything is Liquid (quickly sold) at the right price. Most coins are common and petty and cheap, dirt cheap. Most of the rest are scarce to rare, but ugly, so they're more expensive. But hard to move. Find an attractive coin that's truly rare in any condition, and you've really got something.
Lots of online Chinese sellers now. Amount of perceived "good" coins has increased substantially through the years. Lots of fakes in the supply chain now. Stay very vigilant my brothers an sisters. Semper Fi!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
@coinpalice said:
supply and demand determine the final cost of a coin. this pertains to everything that gets sold in the free market. you overprice it goes unsold
I have often bought foreign coins that have little supply and current little demand.
But I am willing to be patient until the demand grows. Like Mexican coins ......dirt cheap.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Wow I don't see any of this I must be doing something right. I see a deal I buy it if I need $$$ I sell it and keeping something along the way for a rainy day or I must be crazy thinking I'm doing something right.
Oh well I need to keep looking or I will not make and lose money, It's what you get out of it but it takes work the harder you work at it the better you will do it's like that in everything you do in life.. The harder I work the luckier I get.
Gosh, I’m so glad I am a small time collector and don’t have investment concerns, profit margin needs, or great fear for the hobby or the business.
Since this is a hobby for me, I can still smile every time I look at the few coins I own knowing that any losses I suffer from selling a coin is lessened by the time of joyous ownership.
Seated Half Society member #38 "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@Catbert said:
Gosh, I’m so glad I am a small time collector and don’t have investment concerns, profit margin needs, or great fear for the hobby or the business.
Since this is a hobby for me, I can still smile every time I look at the few coins I own knowing that any losses I suffer from selling a coin is lessened by the time of joyous ownership.
You took the words right out of my mouth. Only here for a love of the hobby myself. But hats off to the folks that setup at the shows and have websites giving me a place to go with the "fun money" portion of the budge it. At least what's left after the wife plans our vacations, concerts, sporting events ext.
It's impossible for me to sell at a loss.
I'll trade up a coin I bought for $1000 that is worth only $500 on a better coin worth 3500 if I can get it for $2500 (+trade)
That way in mind, I'm even again.
@topstuf said:
Nobody has mentioned the extra "hurdle" to get coins made "more valuable" with stickers.
That is a factor and it can't be denied.
Watch some unstickered coins for a while. They stay and stay and stay "FOR SALE."
I agree. They now have CAC gold and green, Sight White and who knows what's next?
@lkenefic said:
As one of those old-fashioned "True Collectors", I don't see as I have a horse in this race. Pretty much everything I collect is probably a "widget". The projected value of my entire collection will likely be around $10k once the dust settles. So, I'm not in this as some sort of investment (that's why I have a retirement account, 401k, ss, etc.) and it doesn't concern me how long something stays "in inventory " (the longer the better for me).
That said, I do agree that the Internet has played a strong role in changing this hobby. I don't have to rely on the Red Book or Grey Sheet for information. This greatly informs my buying decisions. But, I'm only spending $100 to $250 on most coins, with a few approaching the 4 figure range.
Given the paucity of collectors, and the trend of the hobby... how many are leaving due to the influx of Chinese counterfeits, slab fees, etc... wouldn't it make economic sense for me to simply abandon the hobby for 10-15 years or so and then everything will be that much less sought after, thus less expensive? I rather doubt this would be the case, and I hope it's not, but I'm sure there are plenty of stamp and baseball card collectors that would disagree.
In the meantime, I'll continue to collect my widgets, look at my albums, and enjoy this hobby for the entertainment it provides me.
I am rather hopeful that, in 10 years' time, I can pick up an '01-S quarter in good for closer to what I think they ought to retail for -- that is to say, less than they have been for years. We shall see. Some baseball cards have gotten cheaper over time, but not all, certainly not some vintage. As with coins, it depends on which ones you are talking about, and their relative grade. Ask anyone in the market for a T206 green portrait Cobb, for example.
@joconnor said:
"But, I'm only spending $100 to $250 on most coins, with a few approaching the 4 figure range."
Seems like the perfect budget to collect many really interesting areas. You just need to wander beyond the confines of U.S. Federal coins.
The problem for me is, apart from precious metal value (I like old world gold coins that trade according to their bullion value) I don't find non-USA issued coins interesting. For those who do, more power to them.
I encounter flip it dealers at my table -shows all the time. As I am there to sell at retail and buy right they move on as their buying below bid to flip won’t work with me. Once they know blowing in wind w me they don’t bother me.
It’s almost always my best material and usually will sell at retail via my online store shortly after.
Comments
To keep this post off track, I'll add that I would never suggest investing exclusively in coins, and I would not expect coins to outperform the stock market in the long run. But as part of a diversified portfolio, a shrewdly assembled collection of coins can make perfect sense. And FWIW, I know enough people who have done well with their coins that I know it's possible to win at the game.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
One point that needs to be mentioned is just how important it is to have excellent photography of one's inventory.
This is a must in today market.
Dealers that can expertly photograph their own inventory have a HUGE advantage to those who can't.
Online is the way for many to go until bourse fees come down to a reasonable amount for many shows making it worth my while. Other shows in bad locations where retail buyer with money traffic always been bad.
Shows just aren’t generating the retail traffic vs the past. Furthermore many of the people coming in the door are broke with really nothing worth buying. Just a lot of looky looks.
I don’t know much for somewhere like Cali which am sure is better (more money out there) but travel cost a big overhead hole get out of.
supply and demand determine the final cost of a coin. this pertains to everything that gets sold in the free market. you overprice it goes unsold
Coin SHOP margins are dependent on the AMOUNT OF SCRAP that walks in.
My ...numismatic... bizz would have ...maybe... sustained a flea.
IF I had a shop dog.
I was in Sacramento, a government town.
Need I explain? NOTHING is "cheap enough."
In the 70's when I was vest pocketing, I could come to Sacto twice a week and buy out of the case and take it back to...
...STOCKTON...
of all places and make a profit selling to dealers there. In Stockton, I had actual collectors.
Should never have moved. Seduced by population and bright lights.
However...... the reluctance of Sacto people to pay anyone for anything...... when I got my PAWN license, it was a gold mine.
Don’t know if it’s business “model”, but there are attributes / efforts that seem to make some dealers very successful:
Excellent internet presence
Blog, market report, etc. updated weekly
Email distribution list, with regular emails featuring new inventory, fresh coins
A FOCUS on some particular aspect of the market e.g. high end CAC rarities with some generic CAC gold thrown in, colonial CAC, toned commemoratives, early dirty gold, etc.
Excellent photography (as mentioned earlier)
Hauling the same tired crap from depressing show to depressing show doesn’t sound like the model for large profits.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
It's a great hobby and the model remains the same : Satisfy a customer with quality at a favorable and competitive price !
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
As one of those old-fashioned "True Collectors", I don't see as I have a horse in this race. Pretty much everything I collect is probably a "widget". The projected value of my entire collection will likely be around $10k once the dust settles. So, I'm not in this as some sort of investment (that's why I have a retirement account, 401k, ss, etc.) and it doesn't concern me how long something stays "in inventory " (the longer the better for me).
That said, I do agree that the Internet has played a strong role in changing this hobby. I don't have to rely on the Red Book or Grey Sheet for information. This greatly informs my buying decisions. But, I'm only spending $100 to $250 on most coins, with a few approaching the 4 figure range.
Given the paucity of collectors, and the trend of the hobby... how many are leaving due to the influx of Chinese counterfeits, slab fees, etc... wouldn't it make economic sense for me to simply abandon the hobby for 10-15 years or so and then everything will be that much less sought after, thus less expensive? I rather doubt this would be the case, and I hope it's not, but I'm sure there are plenty of stamp and baseball card collectors that would disagree.
In the meantime, I'll continue to collect my widgets, look at my albums, and enjoy this hobby for the entertainment it provides me.
Successful BST transactions with: SilverEagles92; Ahrensdad; Smitty; GregHansen; Lablade; Mercury10c; copperflopper; whatsup; KISHU1; scrapman1077, crispy, canadanz, smallchange, robkool, Mission16, ranshdow, ibzman350, Fallguy, Collectorcoins, SurfinxHI, jwitten, Walkerguy21D, dsessom.
Nobody has mentioned the extra "hurdle" to get coins made "more valuable" with stickers.
That is a factor and it can't be denied.
Watch some unstickered coins for a while. They stay and stay and stay "FOR SALE."
This thread is depressing. All of a sudden, I am no longer a collector of historic pieces of art that are valuable and sought after, I am buying useless "widgets" that are common, probably dreck, hyped up, overpriced and guaranteed to lose money compared to other "investments".
There's a bit of confirmation bias here. If you are looking at slabbed/stickered coins on the internet, you think in terms of slabbed/stickered coins on the internet. In which case, the extra sticker makes a difference.
You can sell a lot of raw coins and unstickered coins. They don't necessarily stay and stay and stay IF PRICED CORRECTLY. 95% of the coins I sell are neither slabbed nor stickered. The coins I have that have been around the longest are often the slabbed/stickered coins because I WANT MORE for them.
Everything is Liquid (quickly sold) at the right price. Most coins are common and petty and cheap, dirt cheap. Most of the rest are scarce to rare, but ugly, so they're more expensive. But hard to move. Find an attractive coin that's truly rare in any condition, and you've really got something.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Lots of online Chinese sellers now. Amount of perceived "good" coins has increased substantially through the years. Lots of fakes in the supply chain now. Stay very vigilant my brothers an sisters. Semper Fi!
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
I have often bought foreign coins that have little supply and current little demand.
But I am willing to be patient until the demand grows. Like Mexican coins ......dirt cheap.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Wow I don't see any of this I must be doing something right. I see a deal I buy it if I need $$$ I sell it and keeping something along the way for a rainy day or I must be crazy thinking I'm doing something right.
Oh well I need to keep looking or I will not make and lose money, It's what you get out of it but it takes work the harder you work at it the better you will do it's like that in everything you do in life.. The harder I work the luckier I get.
Hoard the keys.
Gosh, I’m so glad I am a small time collector and don’t have investment concerns, profit margin needs, or great fear for the hobby or the business.
Since this is a hobby for me, I can still smile every time I look at the few coins I own knowing that any losses I suffer from selling a coin is lessened by the time of joyous ownership.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
You took the words right out of my mouth. Only here for a love of the hobby myself. But hats off to the folks that setup at the shows and have websites giving me a place to go with the "fun money" portion of the budge it. At least what's left after the wife plans our vacations, concerts, sporting events ext.
It's impossible for me to sell at a loss.
I'll trade up a coin I bought for $1000 that is worth only $500 on a better coin worth 3500 if I can get it for $2500 (+trade)
That way in mind, I'm even again.
My Saint Set
I agree. They now have CAC gold and green, Sight White and who knows what's next?
I am rather hopeful that, in 10 years' time, I can pick up an '01-S quarter in good for closer to what I think they ought to retail for -- that is to say, less than they have been for years. We shall see.
Some baseball cards have gotten cheaper over time, but not all, certainly not some vintage. As with coins, it depends on which ones you are talking about, and their relative grade. Ask anyone in the market for a T206 green portrait Cobb, for example. 
The problem for me is, apart from precious metal value (I like old world gold coins that trade according to their bullion value) I don't find non-USA issued coins interesting. For those who do, more power to them.
I encounter flip it dealers at my table -shows all the time. As I am there to sell at retail and buy right they move on as their buying below bid to flip won’t work with me. Once they know blowing in wind w me they don’t bother me.
It’s almost always my best material and usually will sell at retail via my online store shortly after.