I'll post the picture once she arrives .... xxxxxx69
@Bullsitter said:
If the coin you posted is your 69 I'd keep it, I don't see a thing wrong with it. Rims are fine, no spots or dings that I can see. Unless there is something in the shadows it looks 70 to me.....jmo....
@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS!
I look at both sides of a modern coin with my eye. If I don't see anything, I put a 7X glass to it under a 100W bulb. If nothing shows (still a 70), perhaps 98% of the time (depending on the size and value of the coin) it goes under my scope (4-5X + fluorescent light using BOTH EYES). If still OK = 70. This is way more attention than at any other TPGS! Unfortunately, I don't see every modern coin that comes in. For example, a "Monster Box" of new SE. When you examine a coin, remember to tip and rotate it while dividing it into small areas at a time.
@cardinal said: "Back in the day of the First Ladies gold medals, I would buy my household limit and send them in for grading. I got a bunch of 69s and some 70s. The 69s bugged me for a while. But later on, I appreciated them....that is, AFTER I resubmitted them and 2/3rds of the 69s came back as 70s!!
@logger7 said: "You could try it at NGC but that too would be a crapshoot; I don't know where they draw the line if they really do."
I tell everyone that if a coin is in a 69 slab, don't waste your time trying for an upgrade to 70. There is a reason it was graded 69! The TPGS want to assign as many 70's as they can to make folks happy. Your coin did not pass.
That said, the experience of @cardnial proves me wrong and disappoints me.
In thirty years of professionally grading moderns, I can count on both hands the time I crossed a 69 to a 70 and that was ONLY because another TPGS employee had possibly mistaken a microscopic "lint mark" or "frost skip" as PMD! Additionally, some services will grade a coin 70 if it has tiny, as struck (Mint made) imperfections. That's the crapshoot because it is subjective. Do you care?
I'm finishing up a grading column on this subject using an "MS-70" silver eagle. BUY THE COIN, NOT THE LABEL!
It is what it is.
I don't see good reason to resubmit .... looking for possible grading mistake on their part. Who am I trying to fool?
You look at the mirror and you know all of your birthmarks ...... a few vouching how perfectly flawless you are would not change the fact
@Insider2 said
In thirty years of professionally grading moderns, I can count on both hands the time I crossed a 69 to a 70 and that was ONLY because another TPGS employee had possibly mistaken a microscopic "lint mark" or "frost skip" as PMD! Additionally, some services will grade a coin 70 if it has tiny, as struck (Mint made) imperfections. That's the crapshoot because it is subjective. Do you care?
@Paradisefound said:
It is what it is.
I don't see good reason to resubmit .... looking for possible grading mistake on their part. Who am I trying to fool?
You look at the mirror and you know all of your birthmarks ...... a few vouching how perfectly flawless you are would not change the fact
PF ...... if anybody is a 70 ..... it would be you.
"@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS! "
Actually @Insider2, I was attempting to say this very thing, but guess I was unclear. What I meant was that I've seen many coins in 70 holders that I believe exhibit a flaw of some sort and they are not imo worthy of the 70 grade. In many other cases, I've seen coins in 69 holders that appear flawless and ought to be graded as a 70. In both cases, I think the grading of these pieces is inaccurate/faulty. This may not be the norm, but I have seen it with my own eyes. My point is that, in my opinion, the attention given to these "perfect" coins is often unwarranted.
Btw.....Thanks @Insider2 for the explanation in your later post of how you grade 69/70's. Fascinating! It would be great if EVERY TPG grader was as diligent as you are! I appreciated the look behind the scenes
Would the MOD sees it as some sort of gambling? Could easily let it go for $1900 but I am trying to message a deal to get 70
I really think $25 raffles for 80 tickets; 1per house hold would be FUN ..... wouldn't it?
@Broadstruck said:
I'm game at the $25 face value as I like the reverse design... What you say?
I don't know the history of a limited raffle on these boards. An unlimited raffle, meaning sell as many "tickets as possible", might be questionable to the mods. Maybe. Hold the raffle on BST if you decide to go that way OR just offer it at $1,900 to begin with. Even $2,000. I'm sure it would be snapped up at that price. Just don't want to see you have any difficulties with the board police.
@Kudbegud
Just talking for entertaining value ....... will not use the board for anything even remotely feel like gambling
I may trade it for my own peace
its the mark behind the neck? I like it but tend to keep my direct purchases because I like the box display. It it is not a milk spot I would just keep it.
@RB1026 said:
"@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS! "
Actually @Insider2, I was attempting to say this very thing, but guess I was unclear. What I meant was that I've seen many coins in 70 holders that I believe exhibit a flaw of some sort and they are not imo worthy of the 70 grade. In many other cases, I've seen coins in 69 holders that appear flawless and ought to be graded as a 70. In both cases, I think the grading of these pieces is inaccurate/faulty. This may not be the norm, but I have seen it with my own eyes. My point is that, in my opinion, the attention given to these "perfect" coins is often unwarranted.
I've seen many hundreds of MS-70's that were NOT. I've seen a few slabbed 69's (with Mint-made imperfections) that could have been called 70's. I consider these rare. I've pulled coins out of 70 holders during QC. I've never raised a coin to a 70 after it was graded less.
Btw.....Thanks @Insider2 for the explanation in your later post of how you grade 69/70's. Fascinating! It would be great if EVERY TPG grader was as diligent as you are! I appreciated the look behind the scenes
First, this is impossible. I don't see every modern coin going out of here. Furthermore, at least one TPGS has an entire table of young graders doing "moderns" with their eyes alone. There is no way they could afford to take more than a few seconds per coin. Many coins take me 10 -15 seconds to make 100% sure it is a true 70! I'm glad I don't work in a sweat shop.
The question is, is it the microscopic spot you don't like, or the 69 grade? In other words, if the same coin was in a 70 holder, would you be happy with it?
@JBK said:
The question is, is it the microscopic spot you don't like, or the 69 grade? In other words, if the same coin was in a 70 holder, would you be happy with it?
It was a needle spot on the feather when I examined it and I knew in my heart it's more 69 rather than 70.
The coin warranted 69 so 70 would be an artificial elation for me or anybody.
@JBK said:
The question is, is it the microscopic spot you don't like, or the 69 grade? In other words, if the same coin was in a 70 holder, would you be happy with it?
Not sure about the majority and I am currently can upgrade it for a few hunskie
The raffle would be a heck of FUN if you ask me and we can appointed 3rd party to call the draw since I don't know how to video tape for proof
@Broadstruck said:
I'm game at the $25 face value as I like the reverse design... What you say?
I was driving out to the south end of the island this morning and thinking of PFs problems with 69. I remember many years ago when I ended up with a bunch of 69s while looking for that perfect one! I never did make a 70 but I came close. I have several 69s now to remind me that 70s are not that easy to catch! I kind of gave up on the quest after that... 69 is as good as it gets!
However my truck just turned over the big 69 today! What a coincidence!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@RB1026 said:
"@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS! "
Actually @Insider2, I was attempting to say this very thing, but guess I was unclear. What I meant was that I've seen many coins in 70 holders that I believe exhibit a flaw of some sort and they are not imo worthy of the 70 grade. In many other cases, I've seen coins in 69 holders that appear flawless and ought to be graded as a 70. In both cases, I think the grading of these pieces is inaccurate/faulty. This may not be the norm, but I have seen it with my own eyes. My point is that, in my opinion, the attention given to these "perfect" coins is often unwarranted.
I've seen many hundreds of MS-70's that were NOT. I've seen a few slabbed 69's (with Mint-made imperfections) that could have been called 70's. I consider these rare. I've pulled coins out of 70 holders during QC. I've never raised a coin to a 70 after it was graded less.
Btw.....Thanks @Insider2 for the explanation in your later post of how you grade 69/70's. Fascinating! It would be great if EVERY TPG grader was as diligent as you are! I appreciated the look behind the scenes
First, this is impossible. I don't see every modern coin going out of here. Furthermore, at least one TPGS has an entire table of young graders doing "moderns" with their eyes alone. There is no way they could afford to take more than a few seconds per coin. Many coins take me 10 -15 seconds to make 100% sure it is a true 70! I'm glad I don't work in a sweat shop.
Looking at a few monster boxes of SAE's has got to be super boooring in the best scenario, much less a sweat shop, with nothing special to spice it up.
@jtlee321 said:
Why is it the Bill and Ted keep popping into my head as I read this thread? Of course my mind wandered a bit into the gutter along the way as well
Comments
You're incorrigible.
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I'll post the picture once she arrives .... xxxxxx69
Just call it a 99 and hope that PCGS goes to a 100 scale.
Mine "eyeballed" very nicely and it is not for resale so left it in OGP. I don't care. Same with the '09 High Relief.
Well, just Love coins, period.
@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS!
I look at both sides of a modern coin with my eye. If I don't see anything, I put a 7X glass to it under a 100W bulb. If nothing shows (still a 70), perhaps 98% of the time (depending on the size and value of the coin) it goes under my scope (4-5X + fluorescent light using BOTH EYES). If still OK = 70. This is way more attention than at any other TPGS! Unfortunately, I don't see every modern coin that comes in. For example, a "Monster Box" of new SE. When you examine a coin, remember to tip and rotate it while dividing it into small areas at a time.
@cardinal said: "Back in the day of the First Ladies gold medals, I would buy my household limit and send them in for grading. I got a bunch of 69s and some 70s. The 69s bugged me for a while. But later on, I appreciated them....that is, AFTER I resubmitted them and 2/3rds of the 69s came back as 70s!!
@logger7 said: "You could try it at NGC but that too would be a crapshoot; I don't know where they draw the line if they really do."
I tell everyone that if a coin is in a 69 slab, don't waste your time trying for an upgrade to 70. There is a reason it was graded 69! The TPGS want to assign as many 70's as they can to make folks happy. Your coin did not pass.
That said, the experience of @cardnial proves me wrong and disappoints me.
In thirty years of professionally grading moderns, I can count on both hands the time I crossed a 69 to a 70 and that was ONLY because another TPGS employee had possibly mistaken a microscopic "lint mark" or "frost skip" as PMD! Additionally, some services will grade a coin 70 if it has tiny, as struck (Mint made) imperfections. That's the crapshoot because it is subjective. Do you care?
I'm finishing up a grading column on this subject using an "MS-70" silver eagle. BUY THE COIN, NOT THE LABEL!
It is what it is.
I don't see good reason to resubmit .... looking for possible grading mistake on their part. Who am I trying to fool?
You look at the mirror and you know all of your birthmarks ...... a few vouching how perfectly flawless you are would not change the fact
PF ...... if anybody is a 70 ..... it would be you.
.......and CAC-able three time over
You sure are up bright and early! Isn't it like 4:30 in the morning where you are? Looking good too I'll bet!
5:30 actually. Hawaii does not observe DST. Summer we are 3 hours behind PDT. Winter 2 hours.
And probably ALL NIGHT LONG TOO!!
All I can say is......................................................OMG!!!
We need a "biting knuckle" Emoji
-S DDO Lincoln Cent comes to mind, in the modern crap era.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Time for DIMEMAN to take a cold shower.
If you have any dirty coins you can kill two birds with one stone (just make sure one of them is not named Mango).
"@RB1026 said: "Totally get what you are saying PF. In reality, it is often just splitting hairs between 69 and 70. I've seen MANY 70's that I believe have had a "flaw" and other 69's that were "flawless" imo."
I disagree. A 70 is perfect and a 69 has one TINY flaw. If you don't see the flaw the coin is overgraded as a 70. Overgraded 70's are all over the place from EVERY TPGS!
"
Actually @Insider2, I was attempting to say this very thing, but guess I was unclear. What I meant was that I've seen many coins in 70 holders that I believe exhibit a flaw of some sort and they are not imo worthy of the 70 grade. In many other cases, I've seen coins in 69 holders that appear flawless and ought to be graded as a 70. In both cases, I think the grading of these pieces is inaccurate/faulty. This may not be the norm, but I have seen it with my own eyes. My point is that, in my opinion, the attention given to these "perfect" coins is often unwarranted.
Btw.....Thanks @Insider2 for the explanation in your later post of how you grade 69/70's. Fascinating! It would be great if EVERY TPG grader was as diligent as you are! I appreciated the look behind the scenes
...69 is fun...with a perfect 70 of course
@Paradisefound said:
I'm game at the $25 face value as I like the reverse design... What you say?
I reserve my comments about any of this.............lest the Tiki Gods swoop down on me spewing lava.
Pete
Would the MOD sees it as some sort of gambling? Could easily let it go for $1900 but I am trying to message a deal to get 70
I really think $25 raffles for 80 tickets; 1per house hold would be FUN ..... wouldn't it?
Coins were not meant to be works of art, but artifacts of commerce. I'll take an old beat up CC Dollar over a pristine fragile modern mint offering.
Enjoy the imperfections of life, as they will only multiply.
I don't know the history of a limited raffle on these boards. An unlimited raffle, meaning sell as many "tickets as possible", might be questionable to the mods. Maybe. Hold the raffle on BST if you decide to go that way OR just offer it at $1,900 to begin with. Even $2,000. I'm sure it would be snapped up at that price. Just don't want to see you have any difficulties with the board police.
@Kudbegud
Just talking for entertaining value ....... will not use the board for anything even remotely feel like gambling
I may trade it for my own peace
its the mark behind the neck? I like it but tend to keep my direct purchases because I like the box display. It it is not a milk spot I would just keep it.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I've seen many hundreds of MS-70's that were NOT. I've seen a few slabbed 69's (with Mint-made imperfections) that could have been called 70's. I consider these rare. I've pulled coins out of 70 holders during QC. I've never raised a coin to a 70 after it was graded less.
First, this is impossible. I don't see every modern coin going out of here. Furthermore, at least one TPGS has an entire table of young graders doing "moderns" with their eyes alone. There is no way they could afford to take more than a few seconds per coin. Many coins take me 10 -15 seconds to make 100% sure it is a true 70! I'm glad I don't work in a sweat shop.
MS70 with a gold sticker?
My YouTube Channel
The question is, is it the microscopic spot you don't like, or the 69 grade? In other words, if the same coin was in a 70 holder, would you be happy with it?
Is this the $64,000 question?
It was a needle spot on the feather when I examined it and I knew in my heart it's more 69 rather than 70.
The coin warranted 69 so 70 would be an artificial elation for me or anybody.
Not sure about the majority and I am currently can upgrade it for a few hunskie
The raffle would be a heck of FUN if you ask me and we can appointed 3rd party to call the draw since I don't know how to video tape for proof
I was driving out to the south end of the island this morning and thinking of PFs problems with 69. I remember many years ago when I ended up with a bunch of 69s while looking for that perfect one! I never did make a 70 but I came close. I have several 69s now to remind me that 70s are not that easy to catch! I kind of gave up on the quest after that... 69 is as good as it gets!
However my truck just turned over the big 69 today! What a coincidence!
Glad you had your truck in park and not in drive when you took that picture!
I may put too much energy toward it ....... telepathic vibe landed mine as XXXXXX69
You and everyone else on the road!
Evidently it was just meant to be.
I would just enjoy it for what it is. It looks pretty fine.
Sad.
Fortunately ....... it takes much more to saddened me
I can't remember a directory, negative or unkind word posted by you ever.
Looking at a few monster boxes of SAE's has got to be super boooring in the best scenario, much less a sweat shop, with nothing special to spice it up.
Why is it that Bill and Ted keep popping into my head as I read this thread? Of course my mind wandered a bit into the gutter along the way as well.
WHAT IF 'WHAT IF" WAS WHAT WAS
@jtlee321 said:
Why is it the Bill and Ted keep popping into my head as I read this thread? Of course my mind wandered a bit into the gutter along the way as well
The thread is beyond cringeworthy.