How Would You Grade This 1892 S Morgan?
Elemint
Posts: 479 ✭✭✭✭
Being a key date and worth $38,000 in MS60, every half point is big money.
0
Elemint
Posts: 479 ✭✭✭✭
Comments
AU55
Impossible to say with those pictures. Could be 58, could be 64. I'm going with 58
Collector, occasional seller
Terrific coin. Very tough to grade based on the image. It without question is a keeper. I think it is very close to MS. Without an in hand review and without better images, 58 seems reasonable.
This is a very difficult coin in this state of preservation.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Wear to hair and eagle breast. 55. Tough call from the photos.
I would guess AU58. The jump from AU to MS is huge. I don’t think you’re getting to 60 unless the coin is all there.
~58 w/poor eye appeal
probably an au58, but I'm thinking if we didn't know the date, most would say low end MS.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
AU58
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Hard to tell from photo but it looks like a 55 or 58 based on the Hair and Eagle Breast. In hand it is possible it is toning not wear.
AU 55 ish recolored
62
The East Is Buying Gold. The West Is Buying Time.
I would need better photos. This doesn't show luster very well so it is hard to tell what is rub or what could be from the toning. If it was in a PCGS/NGC/ICG holder, I would send it back and ask them to dip it.
My wager is AU58, but I could be convinced otherwise.
retoned
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
My first impression is Details 60 questionable toning.
Then I think nice luster , but artificial color.
@Insider2 Can you save the OP's coin?
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
Looks like a planchet flaw... might have delaminated while on a cookie tray in a hot oven?
I'm seeing a AU-55-58 coin
Steve
AU53
A member says this is in a "new" ICG slab. I don't recall seeing this coin. I hope it is not graded MS! Definite rub.
Although if it were a common date it I'll bet it would be graded MS-64. I suspect the lighting is making it look AT but I do see "what appears to be a "chemical flow - old dip residue. Dipping this coin is out of the question!.
Good eye! You have detected a "slag-like" planchet flaw.
Photo is unsuitable for any meaningful ideas, although the damage or striking flaw on the reverse will severely limit interest of buyers. In any event, it does not appear to be worth anywhere close to "$38,000."
Looks to have MS details
Hard to tell if that's a slag or just an area that darkened when it was painted by numbers?
As if the Bob Ross method was used to cover this mistake it could be a little tree or a bird?
I'm not having that problem, I know what it is when I see it. There is a darkened, corrugated, planchet flaw on the coin. Folks long before me called these things "slag."
55
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
AU58...
Looks cloroxed.
I agree with some of the above that because of the value of an MS coin, that this coin will not achieve that grade. I do not agree with has been said about wear in the hair (or cheek for that matter) that appear rather well if somewhat flatly struck in some areas, including some bits of hair, the stars, etc.. The obverse looks rather good, and with a better photo might actually reveal some luster under the tone - see, for example, the area around star # 13 at 9 o.clock. The reverse IMO not quite as nice because of the possible cabinet friction-like appearance at breast center. Also possibly only a lighting phenomenon, but the area at eagle's beak, forehead, top of left wing angle, and top left of breast area look white - is this wear, soft strike, or what?
With what I make out, I think 58 is not unreasonable, and on a more common date have seen worse at 62.
Well, just Love coins, period.
No mistakes! Only happy accidents!
A government accident left me a former man, a potato. That photo on my profile is a low resolution selfie. I like coins.
As I wrote above, 100% Mint made flaw. I don't know who Mr. Ross is but if he digs up the surface of a coin as this is.... Furthermore, you can paint any color you wish over a flaw. I'll find it!
There might be another sizable slag in the eagles wing running the same exact direction along with some minor other streaks.
For those that do not know what a Slag is it's an impurity in the silver planchet mixture which shows itself as a black streak or streaks.
I believe the slags seen on Morgan and Peace $1's turn black after having been in the annealing furnaces.
For those who do not know who Bob Ross is...
Yes, there is a streak in the berries below the large one that I forgot to mention.
You should change your username to the likes of Slagger, Slagster, or The Big Slagbowski
Yes, 58and not appealing to me at all, ihmo, also, is that some type of gouge on the 9?
Maybe a grease streak?
I agree 100%.
My first reaction was, "It's a toned 1892-S that looks Mint State, so it has to be AU58." But the more I looked, the more I thought it is actually M.S. My guess is MS64.
Say what you want about the coin, I would
happily put it into my AU/BU set of Morgans.
My wallet says stick with the G/VG that has
resided there oh these many years.
A search turned this up: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1892-S-MORGAN-SILVER-DOLLAR-ICG-MS62-EXTRA-RARE-THIS-NICE-RAINBOW-TONING/382526901861?hash=item5910614e65:g:168AAOSwTptbVzHU
You wonder how it got "in the holder" and what the real history of that coin is? ICG only gets around $50 in grading fees for something like that right? What's in it for them to stick their neck out to assign a market grade like that? And they could be leaving themselves open for monetary claims if leading ANA numismatists were to examine it and say it is not Unc. and the buyer deserves to be compensated. I just don't get it, and why I would trust ICG on some coins, but rarely on money grades.
I won't comment on this coin because I am not all that familiar with the specifics of this date, but I know Randy Campbell is the senior grader with ICG now and he is well known and highly respected in numismatics. If he was involved with this coin at the time of encapsulation I would not hesitate to own it if it was a coin I desired.
It isn't the graders but the business manager that calls the shots on grades. Anthony Swiatek told me how he asked Randy about a problem coin that ICG had assigned a numerical grade to and his response was "that's how I saw it" or something to that effect. Subjectivity only goes so far when you are talking about huge money. Grading isn't just an "opinion".
@logger7 said: "...ICG only gets around $50 in grading fees for something like that right? What's in it for them to stick their neck out to assign a market grade like that? And they could be leaving themselves open for monetary claims if leading ANA numismatists were to examine it and say it is not Unc. and the buyer deserves to be compensated."
I work for ICG. I don't recall grading this coin. Additionally, I just looked up the value for a MS example. Wow!
I assure you all that this was carefully graded. I have seen MS coins from the top two services that were not even close to this one. The problem with expensive coins is that they are graded differently from common ones. IMO, that's wrong but that's the way it is. IMO, this coin will end up in someone's MS folder.
As for this nonsense: "if leading ANA numismatists were to examine it and say it is not Unc," It shows no understanding of any TPGS. **What anyone (leading numismatists or other TPGS) thinks of this coin or its grade is immaterial. When you read the slab label from ANY TPGS, remember this: **"In the opinion of (insert TPGS name) the coin grades (insert the grade). As long as a mechanical error or blatant fraud did not take place, you are out of luck! REMEMBER THAT and learn to grade for yourself. Then buy the coin and not the label.
To be fair, the IGC graders saw the coin in hand, everyone on this thread (including me) is trying to grade from photos. It is very possible that the areas that look like rub in the photos are not there when looking at the coin in hand. It just seems like this would be a really big miss, on an expensive coin, by IGC if the coin is a slider.
ill wait for a coin that i like better, jmo