Interesting census error - maybe common?
ACop
Posts: 1,479 ✭✭✭✭✭
I noticed this error on the world census ATS but I think an answer or discussion will only come about on this forum due to size.
I know in general the census is a mess due to crackout resubmissions. However this is a flat out error by them on a tiny population coin I have.
There is a coin listed to be Proof 66 1 and Proof 67 1
I happen to own 2 graded Proof 66 coins I made there 5 years ago. I know for sure neither of mine is a mechanical error at 66 and I have seen the 67 coin in the slab so I know at least 3 exist. 2 of which graded together. Can they mess it up that bad? or is it just that the world census doesnt get as much attention. Does this happen in the US census reports at either TPG? Is it even possible tell in the US census? I suppose at top pop levels you would be able to but I have never heard anyone report any 1/0 coins as miscounted.
Comments
I once had the second highest grade on a U.S. 3 cent nickel. For a LONG time, the pop said 0/1. In fact, when I sold it at Heritage, Heritage listed it as a 0/1 even though that makes no sense (0 at this grade, 1 better).
All I can tell you is make sure you don't have some of those Chinese holders lol
I made both coins ats.
Ok so it does happen. Was that here or ats? We may have just started a new trend. Collectors of 0/X coins. Ill start the registry set.
[PS: It's a "population" not a "census."]
...good news then, you can sell both of them @ 1/1
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
not if the first one also isnt my 1 either
I did think it could help value. In this particular coin it wouldnt matter. But how many coins for which it might matter are improperly counted out there?
The numbers are definitely skewed, except for well know document coins that have passed through the services and tracked.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
And I just discovered a 3rd PF66 ucam sold in Japan last night.
Why not send them the cert numbers on all and see what they do.
bob
That would be cheating. They need to figure out whats broken with the system internally.
double post, oooops
Census - noun - an official count or survey of a population, typically recording various details
The quoted definition is incomplete.
A census is an enumeration (or count) of ALL items or subjects in a class.
A population is an arbitrary or incomplete assemblage.
In relation to TPG reports, none of them purport to count all pieces of a specific date/mint/variety, and are there for random populations. A census of 1799 cents must, by definition, include and enumerate ALL 1799 cents (or all known). Any population containing less than ALL 1799 cents cannot have a census.
A census allows conclusions to be drawn from data associated with all of the items. A population permits only inferences the reliability of which depends on the proportion of all items represented by the population, and the extent?accuracy of data.
There are quite a few early large cents and half cents were a true census exists.
Example:
The USA has a population of people. That number is not known and its characteristics are only approximations.
Every 10 years the Constitution requires a census (an actual enumeration or count) of every person in the USA as of a specific date and time. The data collected includes EVERY person and is correct as of the enumeration date and time.
[PS: The Constitutional enumeration is about persons, not "citizens."]
OK, then I will argue that such a thing exists as an "incomplete census". I agree that a census must allow for data to be analysed and in the case of coins, one of those analysis data points, the most important one, is price.
If completeness count of population was required for a census, then there would be very few actual census in the real world.
Nope. A census is a count of all known items. A census can fail - as when some members of a population are excluded. But then, there is no real "census." "Incomplete census" is a logical oxymoron.
RE: "If completeness count of population was required for a census, then there would be very few actual census in the real world."
No, this is false. All places that conduct a "census of population" do so as of a specific date and time. Large amounts of work go into being complete. the 2010 US census of population cost nearly $12 billion to prepare. Much of this was spent to enumerate the hard to count people -- throughout the country.
A census can have unknowns - such as non-respondents or false data. But in a large enumeration program these also can be manages to give final results that are as accurate as humanly possible. Also, the margin of error can be calculated so that final enumerations have a +/- range.
The point is that a census counts ALL members of a population.
The TPG reports are populations, only. They do no enumeration ALL of anything.
"The point is that a census counts ALL members of a population."
By your own words the word ATTEMPTS to count all should be in there. How good that attempt is isnt guaranteed. i.e. the US census has higher standards than the NGC cenus(but do they really?)
"The TPG reports are populations, only. They do no enumeration ALL of anything."
Sure they do. They dont just count, the count by grade. Thats an enumeration which influences price