Overton# on 1828 50c?

logger7 · April 6, 2018 4:59PM

I spent a good while with another collector and the Overton book trying to do the attribution on this half dollar. Any help would be appreciated.

yosclimber · April 6, 2018 5:53PM

The T to I relationship apparently narrows it down to O-111, O-112, O-118 or O-119.
But I was not able to definitely pick one of these with the above photos.
http://coinzip.com/bustieguide/overton.php?d=1828

LoveMyLiberty · April 6, 2018 10:05PM

Believe it is 1828 O-118 with obv 11 & rev P.
The same rev was used for 1829 O-110 obv 6 & rev G.
Look at the Overton book 3rd Edition, page 659
"index of multiple year use dies".

lkeigwin · April 6, 2018 10:13PM

@LoveMyLiberty is right, as usual. O.118.
Lance.

logger7 · April 7, 2018 5:47AM

Thanks, the weird thing on this one as I was checking out the Overton book with Phil, was that the "2" doesn't have a real knob, more like a narrow curled end "2", not sure if that even figures in.

Insider2 · April 8, 2018 5:05PM

@lkeigwin said:
@LoveMyLiberty is right, as usual. O.118.
Lance.

I think it would be extremely helpful to folks (when you have the time to type it out) if you would go through what you look at on these coins to make an attribution. I start with the "T" and "I" position also. Dave Lange taught me about the first star but I only use that sometimes.

LoveMyLiberty · April 9, 2018 1:53PM

"INSIDER stated" I think it would be extremely helpful to folks (when you have the time to type it out) if you would go through what you look at on these coins to make an attribution.

I look at the T to I position
the star 1, 7, 13 points to Lady Liberty
the Date distances & levels and where they cover the dentils
the styles of Date Numerals & positions to the curls
the position of the rev ribbon ends to the letters
the position of the arrows to A3 & their points to the dentils
the position of the olive stem to C2
the position of 5 0 to the claws, feathers, C2 & the dentils
the presence of any die cracks, clash marks, broken letters, filled dies, etc.
the number of berries & there size & position
then I take a break with a cold beer and look at other features of the coin
If I can't figure the attribution then I ask Lance !

Insider2 · April 9, 2018 2:15PM

Thanks! I look for something unusual first like overdates, repunching, and major die problems. Next I look at the "I" and "T."

For dates with large choices I'll look in Peterson to narrow the choices. The distance of the Arrow and "A" and where the scroll ends on each side + the distance of the branch end with the "C" is usually all that is needed using Overton. The claw over the "5" can be helpful also. What most don't have is a diagnostic file with all the microscopic characteristics found on each die. Peterson has many of them imaged.

lkeigwin · April 9, 2018 3:22PM

@LoveMyLiberty is being too generous. He's plenty capable at ID'ing die marriages without my help. And he cited lots of great attribution areas.

I also like @Insider2 's comment..."I look for something unusual..."

In the classic movie "The Desk Set" Spencer Tracy, while interviewing Katherine Hepburn, asks her "What is the first thing you notice about a person?". She pauses and replies, "Well, I guess whether that person is a male or a female."

Great line! It's a tip on attributing die marriages quickly. Look for the very obvious first. Die cracks or other die problems are the first things to go for. Overdates. Broken letters. Denticle segments, even. The big, blatant stuff.

Sometimes you'll notice how oddly stars were struck...pointing weird ways relative to one another (or to Liberty's cap or drapery), or unusually positioned. Or perhaps letters or numbers were punched in funny ways...higher or lower than adjacent ones, tilted, connected, etc.

A quick 15 second scan of both sides may save you lots of time before diving into the nitty-gritty. It helps if you enjoy this sort of thing. I love puzzles so attributing never feels like a chore.
Lance.

astrorat · April 9, 2018 3:39PM

With the coin in hand (as images often don't work well) I will look at Dr. Peterson's book to see if something "jumps out" right away. Otherwise, I spend my time with how elements align. Much of this is outlined above.

Insider2 · April 10, 2018 8:26AM

@astrorat said:
With the coin in hand (as images often don't work well) I will look at Dr. Peterson's book to see if something "jumps out" right away. Otherwise, I spend my time with how elements align. Much of this is outlined above.

I've done that also as the big blow-up at the beginning of each date shows some of the significant "die markers" to look for.

USMoneylover · April 10, 2018 8:42AM

Another method to confirm/identify die marriages is to examine exactly where each star points to the denticles (on coins where they are present). Typically you can go around each star and either they will ALL match perfectly or they won't. You can also use a straight edge (business card on a computer screen/book) to see where things like the scroll ends on the reverse or stars on the obverse correspond with other devices on the coin. This is especially useful when letters or other common attribution points are worn away.

astrorat · April 10, 2018 8:04PM

Here's another method that has helped me with especially low-grade pieces. Examine the relative distance between stars. Some die marriages have some stars that are not all equally spaced and the slight differences in spacing can help distinguish some of the similar looking die marriages.

JRocco · April 11, 2018 5:52AM

I have found that where star 13 points and a quick look at the hair curl
have given me my answer quickly quite a few times

Overton# on 1828 50c?

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